Spareplug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You must be incredibly lucky, because the ratio of decent human beings to human filth on earth alone is like 1 decent human being for every 1 million terrible people. Ever stop to think that maybe you are part of the problem and that is why you have not experienced all the nice things many other posters claim to have experienced. Maybe, just maybe, you are one of the 1 million terrible people and because you group with the other 999,999.00 other terrible people you haven't realized it yet. Something to think about while you ponder your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 sounds like you and your server bandwagoned on a player that you havent described any offense that would make this kind of ridiculous behavior justified. To be honest, it's been over 6 years, I don't remember what he did. I know he was acting like a total dbag on the forums to everyone and both factions. *thinking* Wait... AH HA. I remember. He AFKed in BGs up to Grand Marshal. He didn't do traditional AFKing where he just jumped, he sat in chat and insulted his entire team match after match after match. This was in the OLD PvP system, where getting to the highest rank was literally a 12 hour a day job, and he did it without fighting. He'd then continue this on the forums insulting literally everybody on both sides. When he lost 1 v 1 duels, he went to the forums to declare them a hacker. He basically continually insulted every member of both factions multiple times a day. There is not a human being who was around on ShC during his time that thinks we went too far. Best part, he got driven off the server he moved to as well. I went to go check their forums one day after I figured out where he went, and he was doing the same stuff on his new server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No, they're not required but there's nothing in the facts to say that had those things been released during BC then WoW wouldn't have gained even more subs. Even if your facts did 'prove' that it doesn't provide a correlation between the slowing down of sub increase and the introduction of 'LFR, LFD and ezmode content'. If 90% of people interested in playing WoW signed up during BC then anything added at a later date would never be able to draw in as many new subs simply because there's not enough new people available to draw from. Again the 'facts' show no correlation between the introduction of 'LFR, LFD and ezmode content' and the loss of subs. All you have is two separate events with no evidence of a link between the two. And how do you know that introducing easier content or LFD/LFR tools didn't stem a greater loss of subs? Had those things not been introduced WoW may have lost even more subscribers than it has now. I stated that you can draw any conclusions you want, but you cannot deny the facts. If you want to interpret facts with these odd what if scenarios, you certainly are allowed to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemrodh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't really care about this subject either way, but can we stop claiming to speak for the majority if we don't have hard numbers to prove it? ^This^ now on to the other issues. how is the LFD and LFR hurting your game play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leporello Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Best part, he got driven off the server he moved to as well. I went to go check their forums one day after I figured out where he went, and he was doing the same stuff on his new server. The more you describe this, the more I want to invite Packhunter to my groups and tell you to get lost. You actually bothered to find him on a different server than your own? Sounds quite personal to me. Sounds like your perspective of things might be just a little bit more than biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spareplug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No, I'm saying PuGs are a step to joining a guild. PuGs are what you do as you progress towards having a group of people you play with. PuGs aren't supposed to be how you experience content forever. A good PuG should make you want to recruit the people in the PuG or join their guild. PUGs are not how established/competitive guilds recruit. They recruit by having you put an application on their website. If selected you then run a trial that could consist but its not limited to maybe running a few end-game instances. If you pass you are accepted as an initiate and only when you have really proved yourself after an initially established period of time will you be allowed as a full member and be promoted to raider. At earlier levels when guilds are still young this form or recruiting may work but by then if a decent competent player hasn't got a guild I would wonder why....... Once more. Please stop generalizing. For all your experience you show little common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I stated that you can draw any conclusions you want, but you cannot deny the facts. If you want to interpret facts with these odd what if scenarios, you certainly are allowed to do so. what facts? you have posted zero sources and no one is backing you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I disagree. Bioware has solved this issue with the inclusion of Warzones where you can fight your own faction. As per Gabe Atangelo (might have spelled that wrong)'s post (which you can find on darthhater.com's first page) they are added more same faction vs same faction warzones. This allows fast queue times without cross server queues. Seriously same faction vs same faction in a game based on story and the great war? This is a silly take. At best it's a plaster but not a long term solution. It kills the core design of separating players in 2 factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ^This^ now on to the other issues. how is the LFD and LFR hurting your game play? It removes all personal responsibility to play correctly, to not AFK the entire time, to treat other people with respect, to not be a nasty mouthed little brat ect ect, the list can go on forever if we were to have a thread of having each WoW player post horror stories from LFD. in LFD you queue in, you go to the group, then you probably never ever see those people again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I stated that you can draw any conclusions you want, but you cannot deny the facts. If you want to interpret facts with these odd what if scenarios, you certainly are allowed to do so. Those scenarios are no more odd than the claims you've put forward. All you've done is stated some facts and then drawn conclusions which aren't supported in anyway by the facts you've presented. Noone is denying that WoW gained a large number of subs during BC or that it's been losing subs recently. What we're disputing is your claim that there's a link between those increases/decreases and the introduction of the LFD tool. We're also disputing your claim that you've presented evidence to support your case. It removes all personal responsibility to play correctly, to not AFK the entire time, to treat other people with respect, to not be a nasty mouthed little brat ect ect, the list can go on forever if we were to have a thread of having each WoW player post horror stories from LFD. You mean that personal responsibility you gain from responding to someone saying "LFG <flashpoint>" in general chat? If that's the case then why did things like that ever happen in WoW before there were LFG or LFD tools? Edited January 5, 2012 by Krazeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leporello Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It removes all personal responsibility to play correctly, to not AFK the entire time, to treat other people with respect, to not be a nasty mouthed little brat ect ect, the list can go on forever if we were to have a thread of having each WoW player post horror stories from LFD. in LFD you queue in, you go to the group, then you probably never ever see those people again. I see people I queue with in PvP all the time around my Fleet and on planets. Where do you guys get the idea that queuing for FPs will put you with people in your own server that you'll "never see again", and that they'll thus suddenly become complete jerks? 99% of the randoms I play with in PvP care enough to play the game and try to win. That's all I ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It removes all personal responsibility to play correctly, to not AFK the entire time, to treat other people with respect, to not be a nasty mouthed little brat ect ect, the list can go on forever if we were to have a thread of having each WoW player post horror stories from LFD. in LFD you queue in, you go to the group, then you probably never ever see those people again. so vote kick takes care of that which every single LFD has. what else ya got? do they hold up as well as that argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kottonmouth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't care about this topic at all. People who do should leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Those scenarios are no more odd than the claims you've put forward. All you've done is stated some facts and then drawn conclusions which aren't supported in anyway by the facts you've presented. Noone is denying that WoW gained a large number of subs during BC or that it's been losing subs recently. What we're disputing is your claim that there's a link between those increases/decreases and the introduction of the LFD tool. We're also disputing your claim that you've presented evidence to support your case. I did not put forth a scenario, i put forth the facts, and the facts show that you do not need LFD LFR or ezmode content to have a 10 million+ subb'd game. The facts also show when LFD LFR and ezmode were introduced into WoW, WoWW started bleeding subs, numbering more recently in the millions. Im not drawing any conclusions, those are common knowledge facts. And I will not provide evidence for common knowledge, that is a stupid request, I am not sitting ehre demanding you provide evidence that blizzard and WoW exist, it is common knowledge. Any serious blizzard follower knows everything I am saying as a fact is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spareplug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thats why you dont have cross server! Problem solved. I already have plenty of people on my **** list for ninja'ing or rolling need for their pets. Even if I randomly end up with them in a group, I can easily tell the others or leave if they dont care. Companions are a feature of the game and it was one of the selling points of Bioware when they started their marketing campaign many years ago. You may not remember. Google it. Equipping your companions therefore is a game feature. You, blacklisting people for doing something the game developers introduced and encourage clearly shows that you are not following the spirit as of which the game was developed and conceived by the developers. You are punishing other fellow players for doing what the game tells them to do and yet you feel as if you are the victim. So instead of elevating your concerns and grievances to Bioware you instead choose to blacklist people and shun. At this rate there won't be much of the server left for you to group with. So much for creating a community feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 so vote kick takes care of that which every single LFD has. what else ya got? do they hold up as well as that argument? WoW 1 votekick per group with a 15 minute timer. And every time you get a jerk or AFker and use your votekick, blizzard punishes you with a increase on the votekick CD. If you are unlucky and get grouped with jerks AFKers ect alot, blizzard will punish you with a 2 hour + votekick CD, no thanks, rather be able to kick jerks afkers ect without stupid restrictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I see people I queue with in PvP all the time around my Fleet and on planets. Where do you guys get the idea that queuing for FPs will put you with people in your own server that you'll "never see again", and that they'll thus suddenly become complete jerks? 99% of the randoms I play with in PvP care enough to play the game and try to win. That's all I ask. We are talking about LFD not PVP, follow the topic please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvtcarnage Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I want them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leporello Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I did not put forth a scenario, i put forth the facts, and the facts show that you do not need LFD LFR or ezmode content to have a 10 million+ subb'd game. The facts also show when LFD LFR and ezmode were introduced into WoW, WoWW started bleeding subs, numbering more recently in the millions. Im not drawing any conclusions, those are common knowledge facts. And I will not provide evidence for common knowledge, that is a stupid request, I am not sitting ehre demanding you provide evidence that blizzard and WoW exist, it is common knowledge. Any serious blizzard follower knows everything I am saying as a fact is a fact. Popular thing on the internet lately is to point out "No True Scotsman" fallacies. Yours is a shining example. Any serious Blizzard follower knows everything you said is completely false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 in LFD you queue in, you go to the group, then you probably never ever see those people again. This describes most of my general chat formed PUG's. 75% of the time it's a really good experience and 99.9% of the time it's acceptable and gets me through the content. The only downside is the wait, or possibly waiting so long I no longer have time to run the instance. Even in queues they should make it so someone is randomly picked as leader with normal group leader functions. Smart queues should be able to not put you in groups with people on your ignore list. Partial groups should be able to queue to just fill the last 1 or 2 spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Companions are a feature of the game and it was one of the selling points of Bioware when they started their marketing campaign many years ago. You may not remember. Google it. Equipping your companions therefore is a game feature. You, blacklisting people for doing something the game developers introduced and encourage clearly shows that you are not following the spirit as of which the game was developed and conceived by the developers. You are punishing other fellow players for doing what the game tells them to do and yet you feel as if you are the victim. So instead of elevating your concerns and grievances to Bioware you instead choose to blacklist people and shun. At this rate there won't be much of the server left for you to group with. So much for creating a community feeling Now you are championing your ability to ninja loot, and you don't want someone to be able to kick you or ignore you because you are a ninja looter. WOW you are sure have some nerve, coming here to champion LFD so you can ninja loot and greif other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 PUGs are not how established/competitive guilds recruit. They recruit by having you put an application on their website. If selected you then run a trial that could consist but its not limited to maybe running a few end-game instances. If you pass you are accepted as an initiate and only when you have really proved yourself after an initially established period of time will you be allowed as a full member and be promoted to raider. At earlier levels when guilds are still young this form or recruiting may work but by then if a decent competent player hasn't got a guild I would wonder why....... Once more. Please stop generalizing. For all your experience you show little common sense. Not every guild is an established/competitive guild. Many are like my guild, quite casual. We still raid, and we raid hard when we do, but we might raid once a week, and we'll bring people from out of guild if we need them. When we recruit out of guild, it's people who've grouped with our members and were nice enough to land on a friend list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 WoW 1 votekick per group with a 15 minute timer. And every time you get a jerk or AFker and use your votekick, blizzard punishes you with a increase on the votekick CD. If you are unlucky and get grouped with jerks AFKers ect alot, blizzard will punish you with a 2 hour + votekick CD, no thanks, rather be able to kick jerks afkers ect without stupid restrictions Ive done several hundred LFD runs in WoW, and ive vote kicked maybe 20 total times. It is absolutely not as bad as you are over exaggerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leporello Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 We are talking about LFD not PVP, follow the topic please PvP is a queue system, akin to what people are asking for from an LFD tool. You claim that you won't see the people you group with again with such a tool. But I see my fellow PvPers all the time. The PvP queue proves your point wrong. So I can see why you want to dismiss it as being completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Popular thing on the internet lately is to point out "No True Scotsman" fallacies. Yours is a shining example. Any serious Blizzard follower knows everything you said is completely false. SO since you know I am right, you decide to make jokes to distract from the actual topic and point i made? Guess you have no choice, since you have no valid argument against the points i made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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