RiP_AzaZeL Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The problem with huttball (at least in my opinion) is the fact that it's a pvp scenario where doing actual pvp is bad for the outcome. Playing for objectives in huttball often enough means avoiding any contact with the enemy team what so ever. If you have them ball your better off knocking people off and ccing because killing them means they will respawn in front of you ball carrier. Also one of the best choices is, again, to avoid the enemy as much as possible and try to move in front for a pass / grip. If the enemy has the ball you need to kb the sorcs / people waiting for the pass off the catwalks and grip the ball carrier into fire. Or alternative, if they already setup their goal with grips and managed to get ahead, ignore them and let them score while you set up your own goal by taking the mid and spreading towards their goal. The only shred of actual pvp you might get is when fighting to take the mid for the next ball but even then it's more of a cc and knockback frenzy then pvp. That's why the entire concept seems bad to me. In a pvp setting if you are better than your oponent and manage to kill them you should be rewarded not punished. Because that's what pvp is about... player vs player not player vs acid / fire /random ball. The objectives should automatically derive from being better at pvp not from avoiding it. best post ive read on these forums. You broke down exactly my frustrations here, and i think many of my friends' frustrations with huttball as well. I like that you didnt just say something simple and typical like "huttball sucks" I can play huttball, and i'm pretty good at it, but i still dont like that there are times where we must instruct players not to kill the oposition as they will be able to defend the score more easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 best post ive read on these forums. You broke down exactly my frustrations here, and i think many of my friends' frustrations with huttball as well. I like that you didnt just say something simple and typical like "huttball sucks" I can play huttball, and i'm pretty good at it, but i still dont like that there are times where we must instruct players not to kill the oposition as they will be able to defend the score more easily. Um no, killing is beneficial 99% of the time. Huttball is bad because a lot of people mistakenly think killing people is a bad thing. If dying is so good how come I never see great players just step into a fire pit to die? Or just use /stuck (at least, it used to work)? What makes Huttball bad is you have a team that can dominate with a straight up kill method that somehow thinks they're being really cool by not killing anyone which prolongs the game (the guys you didn't kill just grapple your ball carrier down) while making the experience very boring in general for everyone. The terrain of Huttball greatly favors the defense. Unless the enemy team somehow has no knockbacks it's far more likely the attackers get KBed out of position than the defender. The only way you've a positional advantage to the defender is because your guys never died and it's hard to lose a WZ if your guys never died. People see a game where the enemy has 5 kills and won 6-0 and say 'strat matters' but they missed the part the enemy died 0 times. The reason why they only need to kill 5 times is because they never died so they only need to kill the ball carrier 5 times to get the ball back. "Don't die" is not a strategy because if you can pull it off, it's virtually inconceiveable you'd lose any WZ. I had a Huttball game where my team won 6-3. Both team had 3+ healers. We had 1 death total and enemy had like 5 total. Even in such a ridiuclously low number of death game, what made the difference was that their ball carrier actually died once versus zero for us (probably was a fire pit kill). And, since we died less than they did, we usually have our full 8 guys trying to get the ball during a reset compared to their 7 and yes even that small difference matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGBen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I take it your the guy off to the side trying to fight all the 1v1s and try to get your medals that way XD. L2P Huttball, pass the ball, go out for passes...every class has a roll in huttball and if you play it then its fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLRPSJ Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Um no, killing is beneficial 99% of the time. Huttball is bad because a lot of people mistakenly think killing people is a bad thing. If dying is so good how come I never see great players just step into a fire pit to die? I actually do this a lot in huttball. Especially if the other team grabs the ball in mid after I just scored and have rezzers on me. I am a sorcerer, so yes if I wanted I might be able to escape with no health and heal up in the pit somewhere, but what is the point? I'm way behind the ball wasting time and force. In this situation, I will generally run straight for a fire pit to get back on defense. Note: if you do not have the situational awareness to not get charged when you spawn via LOS, staying on edge of spawn, or roots, please do not do this on my team. >< But if you don't give them a free score with charge, you're better off being back on defense then way behind the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I hate Huttball AND think it is probably the best WZ there is. I think it is the best because it requires the most strategy, and teamwork. I hate it because I am a Marauder. We suck as ball carriers, with the exception of the final push to score, i.e. force leap and UR. Our best utility is sweet to rush up to mid at the start, but that's the only time we can really count on Predation. So basically our most useful skill in Huttball is our most useful skill everywhere else, killing people. We are mid-fielders. Keeping people away from mid is important, I'm not discounting that, the problem is there is another class who is really only good for guarding mid, snipers. They just sit there up above you sniping you all day, you can't jump up to them, you run six blocks to get and someone that's 10ft above you, and then they knock you into the pit, and keep shooting you till you run out of range. Makes me wanna pull my hair out. Not saying it is "unfair", just hugely annoying. My Carnage Mara is an absolute monster in Huttball. I don't carry, but I can definitely keep mid clear and nothing gets past Carnage on the catwalks w/out killing me first. Edited June 25, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I actually do this a lot in huttball. Especially if the other team grabs the ball in mid after I just scored and have rezzers on me. I am a sorcerer, so yes if I wanted I might be able to escape with no health and heal up in the pit somewhere, but what is the point? I'm way behind the ball wasting time and force. In this situation, I will generally run straight for a fire pit to get back on defense. Note: if you do not have the situational awareness to not get charged when you spawn via LOS, staying on edge of spawn, or roots, please do not do this on my team. >< But if you don't give them a free score with charge, you're better off being back on defense then way behind the ball. Seriously, have some faith in the rest of your team. Maybe those other 7 guys kill the ball carrier and get it back and you're in a good position to pull someone back in with the ball. You say you're a Sorc so you're pretty much useless on defense even if you respawned on time to stop the enemy because all you got is KB and it's rare to have good position to KB the attacker from a respawning position. What usually happens is if the other team is good they will definitely kill you because they know better to leave random guys in their own endzone regardless of what happened to the ball so you end up dead anyway, but I'd much prefer if the enemy attack team all jumped into a fire pit and die instead of requiring time to deal with them after a score. Honestly from the way described it sounds like people's idea of awesome Huttball strategy would be after a goal, 3 guys from the assault team immediately jump into fire while the 3 defenders try to pull them out of fire to prevent them from killing themselves. There's always some freak accident where you killed a guy who happened to respawn exactly at the right spot to stop an assault but those are freak accidents, not the norm. It's stuff like this that makes Huttball not very fun, i.e. the guys jumping into their fire pit to die thinking they're helping the team. Edited June 25, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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