Trimethicon Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'm rolling with Pyro for PVP as well. My question is - are people going with crit-based gear, power? Also, how much attention are you paying to Expertise? Its off, in some Warzone's I can melt some people, and then others I cannot scratch, and with people attacking me; some people vaporize me and others hardly touch me (level is irrelevant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroglodyteJB Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 For PvP Expertise is essential. Stack it. Beyond that, Pyro needs Accuracy. The spec relies on applying our DoT and landing Rail Shots. I believe that getting to 100% Accuracy or above will greatly improve the reliability and damage of the spec. With our base accuracy, the chance of applying our DoT drops significantly since there's a 7% chance each shot will miss. I'm 90% sure that the eventual min-max theorycrafting will bear out the notion that some amount of Accuracy is the first priority for PvP Pyros. After that's hit diminishing returns I'd have to do the math on Power/Crit/Surge. I'm currently leaning towards Power with no talent bonus to crits, but there's a lot of math to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I really REALLY wish people would stop going on about always doing the most damage in wz's. Look remember affliction warlocks in WoW? Remember how they could tab dot people with 2 dots and do 3x more damage than anyone else? Thats what you're playing as pyrotech. You lack any REAL killing power or something thats gonna make healers quake in fear. Arsenal may not be the one pulling down 500k damage in endgame lvl 50 pvp, but they're the ones hitting the hardest and making the kills that count. Meanwhile pyro is still running in circles waiting for heat to go down so they can attempt to get railshot procs. Just please, stop mentioning damage as the only qualifying stat that makes this spec viable. Don't misunderstand. You CAN killa healer if they dont run away in time (gl with that) or don't get help, or you dont get blitzed by 3-4 marauders. But its just too RNG based when the RNG doesn't even merit the single target damage. I really did want pyro to work out. But at the end of the day and my playstyle its just more satisfying being able to completely force people out of the fight on COMMAND while having more durability and more knockbacks. Pyro's main "advantage" in mobility is lost the instant you get charged by any melee with a snare. Your rapid shot RNG 2 second snare is not stronger than theirs and theirs lasts 8 seconds so if you goof up your knock back you might as well stand there spamming power shot hoping for lucky crits. Pyro IMO is just more suited for powertechs because of how damn durable they are and thats when it really shines. When you can be in the thick of things and take 8 times longer to die than a merc would. I'd really like to see a new talent tree for mercs that revolves around their guns or hell maybe even melee. I dunno, just something NEW that works and isn't built around another class. Edited January 5, 2012 by Smellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isxossk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Another good pyro thread. Subscribed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotnickels Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I really REALLY wish people would stop going on about always doing the most damage in wz's. Look remember affliction warlocks in WoW? Remember how they could tab dot people with 2 dots and do 3x more damage than anyone else? Thats what you're playing as pyrotech. You lack any REAL killing power or something thats gonna make healers quake in fear. Arsenal may not be the one pulling down 500k damage in endgame lvl 50 pvp, but they're the ones hitting the hardest and making the kills that count. Meanwhile pyro is still running in circles waiting for heat to go down so they can attempt to get railshot procs. Just please, stop mentioning damage as the only qualifying stat that makes this spec viable. Don't misunderstand. You CAN killa healer if they dont run away in time (gl with that) or don't get help, or you dont get blitzed by 3-4 marauders. But its just too RNG based when the RNG doesn't even merit the single target damage. I really did want pyro to work out. But at the end of the day and my playstyle its just more satisfying being able to completely force people out of the fight on COMMAND while having more durability and more knockbacks. Pyro's main "advantage" in mobility is lost the instant you get charged by any melee with a snare. Your rapid shot RNG 2 second snare is not stronger than theirs and theirs lasts 8 seconds so if you goof up your knock back you might as well stand there spamming power shot hoping for lucky crits. Pyro IMO is just more suited for powertechs because of how damn durable they are and thats when it really shines. When you can be in the thick of things and take 8 times longer to die than a merc would. I'd really like to see a new talent tree for mercs that revolves around their guns or hell maybe even melee. I dunno, just something NEW that works and isn't built around another class. I hope everyone thinks this so the spec doesn't get nerfed. Thanks for your stupid support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotnickels Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm rolling with Pyro for PVP as well. My question is - are people going with crit-based gear, power? Also, how much attention are you paying to Expertise? Its off, in some Warzone's I can melt some people, and then others I cannot scratch, and with people attacking me; some people vaporize me and others hardly touch me (level is irrelevant). Unbuffed I'm rolling with 49% tech crit, 85% surge and 110% accuracy. I have the rakata attack adrenal and a columi power relic for +1000 power on demand. I've seen thermal detonator crits for around 5500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotnickels Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just wanted to add that talented, power shot is the same cost as tracer missile and hits for about 400 more. Theres no reason to be arsenal in pvp over pyrotech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just wanted to add that talented, power shot is the same cost as tracer missile and hits for about 400 more. Theres no reason to be arsenal in pvp over pyrotech. Power shot has higher base dmg because it is heavily mitigated by armor. Tracer is counted as a spell and will often do more than power shot. Next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywow Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Unbuffed I'm rolling with 49% tech crit, 85% surge and 110% accuracy. I have the rakata attack adrenal and a columi power relic for +1000 power on demand. I've seen thermal detonator crits for around 5500. I would really like to see how pyro spec goes with a stuff like yours. Does anyone have video links to share ? Can't find anything on youtube... PS : Sorry for my bad english. It's not my usual language. Edited January 6, 2012 by jaywow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotnickels Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I would really like to see how pyro spec goes with a stuff like yours. Does anyone have video links to share ? Can't find anything on youtube... PS : Sorry for my bad english. It's not my usual language. I posted a screenshot of my score in one of my games earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DervimNorth Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Power shot has higher base dmg because it is heavily mitigated by armor. Tracer is counted as a spell and will often do more than power shot. Next THAT and a simple fact that it's counted as a weapon attack and can be deflected/dodged by a jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 THAT and a simple fact that it's counted as a weapon attack and can be deflected/dodged by a jedi. Guhh same deal with rail shot too. Nothing more irritating than seeing DODGE/PARRY/MISS on a sage/sorc you just lit up to 5 heat signatures with 5 stacks of railshot buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakozoid Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Unbuffed I'm rolling with 49% tech crit, 85% surge and 110% accuracy. I have the rakata attack adrenal and a columi power relic for +1000 power on demand. I've seen thermal detonator crits for around 5500.What makes you so sure that this gear doesn't make any other spec of BH even more powerful then Pyro ? Edited January 6, 2012 by Sobakozoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGif Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just switched to Pyro last night (from Arsenal). Few Thoughts/Notes: - I'm not 50 (47), so I'm not decked out in High End Gear yet, still sporting some 40-42 stuff for the most part.- In PvE I found I had a much harder time taking out Elite Mobs than Arsenal build. I was just not as consistent with the damage out put as with Ars. The rotation is much harder to watch, which has been mentioned, you need to watch for your free railshots, and watch your heat much more and change your rotation much more as a result. - In PvP (Played about 10 games last night), mostly huttball of course, I found that it's no where near as bursty as Ars (obviously), but like has been mentioned, is very situational, you can DoT a bunch of people. at the start of group fights, but your heat just gets out of control doing that. Where I find you shine is people who have this sense of safety at (around) 50% health. You're a much better finisher then you are starter. Your abilities work well with having people think they have health, until, you DoT them, Railshot them, TD them, Unload and maybe one more Railshot, will cause them to get into a real panic and die.- Good things, DoTs on Operatives, or people wanting to cloak out. We've all been there when an Op uncloaks and smashes you, I find doing a Jet Blast and than DoTing them was a good way of mitigating their ability to just burst your down. Also Mobility, you do have much more mobility, and infact you have to use it. You have to hug corners, and walls, and make people chase you as you dot and let your spells do the work for you. - Bad Things, melee characters will do a number on you as you're giving up your knockback uppercut, but you do get a bit of a slow to try and get away. Found my dmg output to be ok, but not nearly as good as Ars on Average. (This is based on the same equipment as before). I found getting Medals was much harder to come by as well since you're not dealing a ton of blows in a short time, but a lot of dmg over longer periods. I'm going to keep this build for now, it's fun, its a change, but like its been said, I dont think is as bursty as sustained dmg as Ars Spec is. But if you're a pillar hugger, and like to run around this build is for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Guhh same deal with rail shot too. Nothing more irritating than seeing DODGE/PARRY/MISS on a sage/sorc you just lit up to 5 heat signatures with 5 stacks of railshot buff. it is annoying when that happens, but one thing I've noticed is that if your rail shot misses it doesn't spend the tracer lock stacks. silver lining and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroglodyteJB Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Power shot has higher base dmg because it is heavily mitigated by armor. Tracer is counted as a spell and will often do more than power shot. Next Armor mitigates kinetic and energy damage. Tracer Missile is kinetic, which means it IS mitigated by armor, although Heat Signatures obviously make your fifth Tracer Missile much more powerful than your first. In addition, Power Shot is a weapon attack, which means it derives its bonus from your weapons rather than (or at least much more than) your Tech Power (parenthetical remark because it's not completely clear how weapon attacks derive their bonuses yet). Tracer Missile is solely enhanced by Tech Power. Lastly, Tracer Missile cannot apply Combustible Gas Cylinder while Power Shot can. Damage output in a practical sense is going to depend heavily on rotation and spec. If you went mostly Pyro but went high enough in Arsenal to grab Tracer Missile, I'd call you a fool, since it has very little synergy with the rest of Pyro's abilities, most of which don't really care too much about armor (as they're elemental). However, five stacks of -armor on an enemy means that Heatseeker lands for a staggering +25% damage, with -20% armor on the target. Heavily specced Arsenal Mercs are absolutely right to use Tracer Missile; grabbing Tracer Missile as a minor spec is probably quite ill-advised compared to using Power Shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotnickels Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 What makes you so sure that this gear doesn't make any other spec of BH even more powerful then Pyro ? Because I've spec'd as both arsenal and pyro, and Pyro is clearly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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