i don't understand how people can Say "No addons" no one i forcing you to use them

[Talmonis]

DPS meters will make Juggernaut tanks unplayable. Every moron in the game will be spamming every AOE they have to pad meters, CC will become a thing of the past and no juggernaut can keep up with that sort of stupidity. Soon enough it would have groups refusing to take a Jugg at all (moreso than they already do now) because "they're terribad lolz lolz lolz" and can't aoe down every bit of the content without stopping (while powertechs can).

[Farlit_Morcha]

In WoW there was a mod called "Healbot". It literally brought healing down to 1 button. You clicked the button, it picked the person with the lowest health, and cast the lowest minimum heal on them.

So the entire fight, all you do is click the one button and occasionally step out of the fire.

I installed it, was horrified by what it did, and boycotted it ever since.

 

This iteration of healbot was deemed to help the player too much by wow developers who then "broke" it during vanilla. Healbot afterward became similiar to grid/clique in that it was a display of information coupled with the ability to use roll over macros to cast heals (determined by the player).

 

Not a great example given that this addon was not allowed to continue in that form.

[DreamsOfChaos]

It seems here that there is an equal amount of people for addons and against them. I say why not have both groups have seperate communities and raid amongst themselves. I figure if you you don't like addons and others do and require you to have them to raid with them, then don't raid with them and raid with the ones that don't use them. I like addons, when I played wow and did dungeons people would tell me my dps sucks (didn't understand what that meant at the time until my friend told about it) then i got recount which told me my dps and help me improve by researching my class and experimenting different rotations. Idk what people feel that addons take away from the fun factor but everyone is different, if you don't like them how is it fair to not have addons cause you think it will ruin your game. Let people play the way they want to play and raid with those that don't use them.

[Taegost]

This iteration of healbot was deemed to help the player too much by wow developers who then "broke" it during vanilla. Healbot afterward became similiar to grid/clique in that it was a display of information coupled with the ability to use roll over macros to cast heals (determined by the player).

 

Not a great example given that this addon was not allowed to continue in that form.

 

It's a perfect example of a mod that broke the game. It made sub-par healers outperform great healers who actually knew how to do their job.

It actually caused Blizzard to re-write portions of the API that made other mods that wouldn't be game-breaking to not be able to function at all.

Also, the post was in response to someone saying that mods can't break the game, to which I gave an example of one that did. The fact that it was broken by the devs matters not to the argument.

Also, the latest iteration of Healbot, while not exactly as it was in Vanilla, is still set up to allow sub-par players who shouldn't be healing at all compete with slightly above-average healers. I tried it in Cata and it still pissed me off.

I personally would never use a mod that completely removes skill from the equation.

 

On to the topic at hand, there have been a couple mentions of it already, but mods like DBM, Recount, and Omen are mandatory for most raiding guilds in WoW. The people that want to raid with a non-extreme casual guild are required to have them. My guild did, even the ones I ran... Because they were necessary. The game mechanics were changed to incorporate those mods, so they eventually became required by the game itself... Even though you weren't forced to use them.

I'm on the fence about add-ons, personally I'd prefer to just see dps and threat meters baked into the game... While I am not a fan of dps meters because some people just use it as an excuse to do as much AoE as they can, as has been mentioned before, it's one of the few ways that you can definitively tell that someone is not pulling their weight. It helps both hardcore and casual raiding guilds alike, without being a requirement for everyone to use (Some people can manage aggro well by feel, and some people don't care about the meters), but the people who need/want them, will have them.

[sirlonestar]

addons macros key binds are for lazy non skilled players that do everything for you .

play the dam game not the game play you.

you dont need a dbm to tell you when a boss is going to do something when all you have to do is pay attention and look on your own. asking for dbm pure lazy.

 

they have said many times ui will be changed and customizable within the game so be patent and relax .

 

dont need macros and key binds to string abilities together again play the game.as it is intended

 

i can see having a damage/healing meter but only the ops leader can use it and see it during ops.

 

Envenom

Edited January 5, 2012 by sirlonestar

[DarthWumps]

we need addons its personal preference why does the way we play bother you?

is your small brain unable to figure out how they work?

are you really bad and don't want people to be even better?

 

I think you have it the wrong way. Good MMO players don't need mods, at least I don't. It seems the people that complain are the typical WoW kids that use mods to make gaming easier or just to be plain lazy. Use a little brain activity and you'll be fine.

[Showmee]

People pay.

People demand.

People stay or leave.

What do you think will happen?

[EchoTwoOmega]

we need addons its personal preference why does the way we play bother you?

is your small brain unable to figure out how they work?

are you really bad and don't want people to be even better?

the UI is horrible hopefully they allow some and i can make my own personal UI.

 

So explain to me why you dont want addons because it just makes little sense

 

No one is forcing you to use them?

But you are. If you allow me to raid you will REQUIRE ( eg force) me to use a threat meter, and then a damage meter, and then a deadly boss mods, and then ....and then....and then.....

 

 

I dont agree with your trolling by insulting peoples intellect.

I can improve my gameplay WITHOUT the need for addons. can you figure that out?

Next time you want to make a post and get support of ryour opinion do go around being a troll. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

 

but I agree. The UI could use far far far more customization options than are currently available. Hopefully that is something that Bioware will add in since it will be SUPPORTED.

[Kelticfury]

Seriously people that complain about addons and dps meters or player stats are

 

A: Bad at the game and don't want to be easily spotted

or

B: Never played at a competitive level and don't know what it takes.

 

Seriously, people that ***** and moan about not having addons are:

 

1) Bad players because they can't play a videogame with out a 3rd party crutch.

2) Never played an MMO without addons so are developmentaly challenged when it comes

to using their own brains for critical thinking.

 

/thread

[Chosenxeno]

No Addons or Macros(some 1 player RPGs even have these now! LOL) = You can end the Dream of this becoming a WOW Killer.

 

Like I said in another thread. Rift which is very good imo, was slow to add Macros and Addons. Rift now has 20 something servers.

 

I dare anyone to disagree with the following statement:

Not having at least Macros makes a game feel older than WOW and EQ even though they have been out longer and it has superior graphics.

 

When servers start to merge and the people on your friends list start to disappear and your population gets smaller it's because they have gone back to their previous MMOs that have basic things like Macros and UI customization.

[Hellionzzzz]

I just want to be able to move around my bars and have a UI scale slider. To me the buttons are way to big.

 

That is unless I'm missing an option I can toggle somewhere. As for the other addons, I'm a bit indifferent and wouldn't care much one way or another.

[TheErebUs]

Add ons aren't necessary, secondly, why are you insulting people and judging their intelligence? Don't be smug just because you think add-ons are cool.

[HarmJEDI]

The way I see this is very simple, the people who don't want addons or macros do not know what they are talking about and are lvl 10. With the current UI you have no real control, you can interrupt a boss, but it's hard to see if he puts a debuff on you or himself. You don't know if you are doing the best dps you can do(or healing for that matter). Addons allows the game to be harder, it is not the other way around. If you have a accurate timer or a way to measure your output in a raid enviroment, encounters can be tuned much tighter, Right now there is a lot of leeway needed because people can not optimize their gameplay with a clunky and rather crappy UI.

 

Let me list some things for you that should be available:

 

Damage meters

target of target

bigger buff frames

a combat log

better display of cooldown timers.

[JMacneish]

iv said something similer on every thread on addons iv bumped into so ill say it here as well:

 

addons have their uses but for F F S!! dont let 3rd parties make them they may do a good job but the dangers of hackers and whatnot exploiting the code is to damageing, if an add on is needed let the original maker of the game implement it as an ingame option

 

 

 

this is my IMO thank you for reading

Edited January 8, 2012 by JMacneish

[TJHarmon]

What I find hilarious is that people are like "the majority don't want addons and won't use them, don't do it bioware!!".

 

Then there are people saying "you WILL be forced to use addons cos guilds will require you to use them".

 

Solution: Join a guild that doesn't require addons. Should be easy to find, since ya know... the majority of players don't want them.

 

This. Just a lesson on how you shouldn't talk out of your ***. It's a "my friends don't want addons so the majority of SWTOR must not want them either!".

[TJHarmon]

target of target

better display of cooldown timers.

 

Yes, please.

[Bruxic]

I have been part of some of the most sucessful raiding guilds in Eq, EQ2 and vanguard. Aside from using a parser of he combat log, never needed any sort of add on to figure out who was good an who wasn't. Most of the fun was learning the fights and adjusting strats on the fly to be sucessful.

 

Some guild mates of mine finally talked me into checking out WoW, so I leveled to 80 in about a week and started raiding. What I found out was that everyone was required to download a number of add ons, like DBM, heal bot, threatmeters, parsers and a few others...oh my. Basically, these programs took the fun completely out of the game. Might as well just had an autobot program do everything for you while you watched tv. the add ons told you where to stand, when to move and even picked abilities to cast on your target. No thank you.

 

The real sad part was that many using these programs still weren't very good. I really hope swtor doesn't allow 3rd party programs to do the work for players. Any real hardcore raider should be against these programs, as they take he challenge out of many encounters and allows any idiot an advantage. Back inthe old days of gaming, it was a badge of honor to defeat tough encounters like the plane of time and everyone knew who th elite raiding guilds were. What I saw in WoW were every player in end game raiding gear, relying on programs to tell them what to do.

 

Just my personal thoughts. I guess the days when people enjoyed a challenge are long gone and now everyone wants instant gratification and easy gear mode.

[Osagasu]

iv said something similer on every thread on addons iv bumped into so ill say it here as well:

 

addons have their uses but for F F S!! dont let 3rd parties make them they may do a good job but the dangers of hackers and whatnot exploiting the code is to damageing, if an add on is needed let the original maker of the game implement it as an ingame option

 

 

 

this is my IMO thank you for reading

 

There is no danger of hacking using a properly coded addon API.

 

Warcraft and Rift both have addon functionality that have no risk of hacking.

[Elyzza]

No addons would be a delightful thing. Because I have played WoW for 6 years and people started relying on many add ons. I used the blizzard UI and did all right for the level I played. I had the regular MoDs I needed to raid because guild rules said I had to but the best players I played with never had recount up or needed Omen. If you take your time, and be patient you will learn to deal with the UI you have and set the bars the way you want them. Its like anything else. You learn how to swing a baseball bat. You don't do it right on your first time. You practice. Its the same w. any game including video games. In the end addons will be added, and they will become a must which is sad to me. But if people are patient, level correctly, take time to read up on their class, and talk to other people about your class you wont need an addon to play well.

[Kadjet]

People associate Addons with Recount and associate recount with being told their dps is bad. Addons are fine.

[dchero]

I can't believe the amount of hysterics this subject always brings out.

 

1) "I will be forced to use add-on"

 

Nobody holds a gun to anybodies head and makes them do anything.

 

If your guild leader / raid leader is that much of a jerk to require you to either install the add-ons you should quit the guild as why would you stay in a guild / raid where leadership are terrible jerks?

 

2) "Add-ons play the game for you"

 

Come on ... BoT programs play the game for you ... add-ons don't. There are no add-ons out there that allow you to press one button to do everything, including proc's ... and the folks that are citing that none-sense should be taken out back of the woodshed if you get my meaning.

 

3) "Add-ons give an unfair advantage"

 

What is unfair about an icon showing up when a proc ability becomes available for use ... isn't that *exactly* what happens on the tool bar?

 

What is unfair about a message appearing when a boss starts to do some ability ... if you have the boss targetted and he starts to do an ability you see it in both the bar and on the bar above his head.

 

All mods really do is to mimic what the game does, but allow you to customize it the way you like it ... there is really nothing "unfair" about that.

 

The closest thing to "unfair" in a mod are PvP mods that track cool downs so you don't have to think as much about when somebodies interrupt is up ... but in reality, if your good at PvP, you already *know* about when somebodies interrupt is available again ... etc, etc.

 

And I really liked the guy that said mods gave an unfair advantage and all he wanted to do was to log on and quest ... LOG ON AND QUEST ... a single player activity and he is complaining about somebody else somewhere else, in some group, doing something else has some sort of unfair advantage?

 

Fruitcakes ... this community is awash in fruitcakes.

 

Bottom line: No combat log ... bad. No mouseover macros ... bad. No focus target frame ... bad. No Target of Target frame ... bad. no customized UI ... bad. Do I need to go on?

 

Allowing mods would solve all of that cause the mod community would fix it all .. instantly where as BW would be left to create content which we all want. If mods are not allowed, then BW has to pull devs off new content to fix those things I just mentioned as they can't be allowed to continue in the state they are in.

[XisscVekno]

After reading the 100th or so of these threads one thing seams to be clearly evident in every argument for or against addons. Neither side can see the whole picture. Some addons play the game for you (Nerfed buttons, DBM/Bigwigs, Healbot/Voodoo (I don't think these auto heal for you any more), ACR (which I commonly call raiding for *******) among others). Which is the argument that gives players an unfair advantage or makes a bad player mediocre or takes the skill out of the game.

 

Other addons do nothing but are cosmetic (which are fine). Better UI placements, raid frames, player huds that take your eyes off the bottom of your screen and puts them in the middle for pvp ease, ect. These most people if not all are fine with, except one small little problem. These have a tendency to become mandatory to raid. I can remember when CT first came out and got popular. It was a requirement that we all get and use CT along with decursive (another mod that played the game for you) and so on.

 

Then you have the ugly and most fought over mods... DPS/Threat meters. and these will be argued that you NEED them. Not for some people they help while others they do nothing but tell us what we already know. They get blown out of proportion in use and become less and less of a tool and more and more of a e-peen stroker and another reason for morons and e-thugs to belittle other gamers.

 

No my final word about all this is some mods are fine that are completely cosmetic in nature (god knows I would love a much smoother UI especially for Operations). others not so much since they tell you how to play or remove skill from the game by telling you in .5 sec boss x is going to do ability y in location z (these are not OK) or you need to use ability a then b of d proc'd so go to e then hit c. As far as DPS/threat meters are concerned they are a very useful tool if used properly and most people have no clue how to use them other than "I L337, U ZUXXORZ!!! L2P NOOB!!!!" which most people are down right sick of and rather not take the chance of seeing it again.

 

I do believe we either need a better designed UI that is both movable and scalable or UI ONLY mods allowed so we can get the look, placement, and hopefully better preforming huds for groups/Operations. We could use a DPS meter as well as long as it's a personal one that can't be linked into chat and only tells you what you are doing with each ability and for how much even with a times stamp. If not a in game DPS meter than a combat parser that requires you to alt-tab out of game to use (my preferred method since it's not technically a mod).

 

The addons we could do with out are any type of boss timers, rotation optimization, Linkable DPS/Threat meters, Any thing that tells you to move away from player/area x which we really don't need it cause the game tells you exactly where the AOE ability is going to be already.

 

But if it came down to yes to addons or no to addons not some are ok and others are not I will always lean to no addons here. Reason being is that I feel that yours or my playstyle should not be forced on others just to experience the game. It makes it not a game, but more of a job. We already get told in life we have to do things this way or else be it school, work, laws, or even parents that we really don't need someone else doing it in our form of entertainment.

 

 

P.S. I suck at grammar and English. I'm better with math and sorry for calling them mods some times, but I'm not going back through just to try and find each time and change it.

 

P.P.S. One more thing I thought of. Mods become required for raiding and cause the development team to design content around mods that are perceived as everyone uses. This is the number one big NO NO NO NO NO in my book. WoW is the biggest and as far as I know only culprit in doing this. This I believe is the main reason people say we will be forced to get x,y,and z addons.

Edited January 8, 2012 by XisscVekno

[Kelticfury]

After reading the 100th or so of these threads one thing seams to be clearly evident in every argument for or against addons. Neither side can see the whole picture. Some addons play the game for you (Nerfed buttons, DBM/Bigwigs, Healbot/Voodoo (I don't think these auto heal for you any more), ACR (which I commonly call raiding for *******) among others). Which is the argument that gives players an unfair advantage or makes a bad player mediocre or takes the skill out of the game.

 

Other addons do nothing but are cosmetic (which are fine). Better UI placements, raid frames, player huds that take your eyes off the bottom of your screen and puts them in the middle for pvp ease, ect. These most people if not all are fine with, except one small little problem. These have a tendency to become mandatory to raid. I can remember when CT first came out and got popular. It was a requirement that we all get and use CT along with decursive (another mod that played the game for you) and so on.

 

Then you have the ugly and most fought over mods... DPS/Threat meters. and these will be argued that you NEED them. Not for some people they help while others they do nothing but tell us what we already know. They get blown out of proportion in use and become less and less of a tool and more and more of a e-peen stroker and another reason for morons and e-thugs to belittle other gamers.

 

No my final word about all this is some mods are fine that are completely cosmetic in nature (god knows I would love a much smoother UI especially for Operations). others not so much since they tell you how to play or remove skill from the game by telling you in .5 sec boss x is going to do ability y in location z (these are not OK) or you need to use ability a then b of d proc'd so go to e then hit c. As far as DPS/threat meters are concerned they are a very useful tool if used properly and most people have no clue how to use them other than "I L337, U ZUXXORZ!!! L2P NOOB!!!!" which most people are down right sick of and rather not take the chance of seeing it again.

 

I do believe we either need a better designed UI that is both movable and scalable or UI ONLY mods allowed so we can get the look, placement, and hopefully better preforming huds for groups/Operations. We could use a DPS meter as well as long as it's a personal one that can't be linked into chat and only tells you what you are doing with each ability and for how much even with a times stamp. If not a in game DPS meter than a combat parser that requires you to alt-tab out of game to use (my preferred method since it's not technically a mod).

 

The addons we could do with out are any type of boss timers, rotation optimization, Linkable DPS/Threat meters, Any thing that tells you to move away from player/area x which we really don't need it cause the game tells you exactly where the AOE ability is going to be already.

 

But if it came down to yes to addons or no to addons not some are ok and others are not I will always lean to no addons here. Reason being is that I feel that yours or my playstyle should not be forced on others just to experience the game. It makes it not a game, but more of a job. We already get told in life we have to do things this way or else be it school, work, laws, or even parents that we really don't need someone else doing it in our form of entertainment.

 

 

P.S. I suck at grammar and English. I'm better with math and sorry for calling them mods some times, but I'm not going back through just to try and find each time and change it.

 

A customisable UI is not an addon. It should be built into the game.

[XisscVekno]

A customisable UI is not an addon. It should be built into the game.

 

I stated that in there. If they don't do it themselves then it becomes a addon to get it.

[Frailbomb]

if im not forced to use an addon... than why if they were released would people be saying you must have X or Y Dps.. and Z or Q Healing.... or you cant run with us... Thats forcing people to have addons so they can know their Number of dps or heals

 

No one is forcing you to run anything with anyone, just wanted to point that out...