Cowflab Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As the title states, I believe adding 200-250 expertise to the bolster bonus would tone down some of the PvP whining that is rampant in this forum. At 250 a player would have enough expertise to see a noticable difference, while not taking away from anyone's drive to better gear their characters. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As the title states, I believe adding 200-250 expertise to the bolster bonus would tone down some of the PvP whining that is rampant in this forum. At 250 a player would have enough expertise to see a noticable difference, while not taking away from anyone's drive to better gear their characters. Discuss. If you're going to do that, why not get rid of expertise all-together? Sounds like a good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlodo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If you're going to do that, why not get rid of expertise all-together? Sounds like a good idea to me. Expertise is needed to prevent pve gear to be competitive in pvp and the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malignment Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Expertise is needed to prevent pve gear to be competitive in pvp and the other way around. Who cares if PvP and PvE gear are competitive. Remove expertise and cut the healing rebuff in half (which I'm assuming is there to Counter the expertise buff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Expertise is needed to prevent pve gear to be competitive in pvp and the other way around. Which would matter in any game where gear wasn't so easy to get... This isn't exactly your 40-man raid epic gear dominating PvP MMO, and I haven't heard of people having trouble of gearing up enough to do end-game PvE content. 10-49 vs 50 and separate bracket queue times are real issues that could be resolved by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Bump for more constructive conversation. Good job guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Who cares if PvP and PvE gear are competitive. Remove expertise and cut the healing rebuff in half (which I'm assuming is there to Counter the expertise buff) Every PvPer in every MMO ever. If you played MMOs years ago you would remember that in order to not get hopelessly farmed by people with massive stat advantages (gee, that sounds familiar!) you had to be in a hardcore pve try-hard guild. No thanks to doing that bullcrap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Every PvPer in every MMO ever. If you played MMOs years ago you would remember that in order to not get hopelessly farmed by people with massive stat advantages (gee, that sounds familiar!) you had to be in a hardcore pve try-hard guild. No thanks to doing that bullcrap again. This doesn't make any sense as a response. The suggestion wasn't to remove PvP gear, it was remove a particular stat on PvP gear. You would still have the PvP gear and it would still be equivalent to raid gear, given an equivalent amount of time invested. The point was that if you make PvE/PvP gear equal, people can choose to earn it whichever way they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 This doesn't make any sense as a response. The suggestion wasn't to remove PvP gear, it was remove a particular stat on PvP gear. You would still have the PvP gear and it would still be equivalent to raid gear, given an equivalent amount of time invested. The point was that if you make PvE/PvP gear equal, people can choose to earn it whichever way they like. Unless there's a high MMR rating attached to gear (Which is not possible in TOR atm) then PvP gear would be significantly easier to acquire than PvE gear. Plus you'd be practically forcing hardcore PvEers to do PvP which is always a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeel_Aldair Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 This doesn't make any sense as a response. The suggestion wasn't to remove PvP gear, it was remove a particular stat on PvP gear. You would still have the PvP gear and it would still be equivalent to raid gear, given an equivalent amount of time invested. The point was that if you make PvE/PvP gear equal, people can choose to earn it whichever way they like. This may sound good, but more than likely you'll just get twice as many people complaining. PvEers saying they're forced to PvP to get prepped for Operations as quickly as possible (no lockouts for PvP) and complaining their progression efforts were wasted because some PvPer just came in with his epic set and outperformed them. Then PvPers will complain of getting nuked by a guy from a hardcore raiding guild, like used to happen in WoW before resilience. Also, added bonus complaining - Bioware won't like it because people only need to do half the grinding and see half the content! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Every PvPer in every MMO ever. If you played MMOs years ago you would remember that in order to not get hopelessly farmed by people with massive stat advantages (gee, that sounds familiar!) you had to be in a hardcore pve try-hard guild. No thanks to doing that bullcrap again. We're talking about a system where everyone is currently bolstered in the same bracket. Level 10-49 vs level 50 with full expertise is going to be more of a discrepancy than level 10-50 with crap gear vs 50 with epic raid/PvP gear. The expertise stat is what is creating the need for a separate bracket. Level 20 vs. 49 is actually somewhat viable in the current system. Why would anyone want a system where they can dominate other 50s until they gear up at the cost of longer queue times, when after everyone has geared up it all washes out anyway? I'd rather stay level 49. If this game had regular brackets and no bolstering then resilience, errr expertise would make more sense. As it is, expertise is just going to force people into a smaller pool of people to PvP with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 I guess I should be a little more clear in my purpose for this petition. The bolster expertise should only be available to lower levels that wz with lvl 50's. Upon losing the bolster buff at 50, you would then get to the normally scheduled gear grind. It's more to level the playing field for players that aren't max level. Not to create a gear rift between the 2 playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) We're talking about a system where everyone is currently bolstered in the same bracket. Level 10-49 vs level 50 with full expertise is going to be more of a discrepancy than level 10-50 with crap gear vs 50 with epic raid/PvP gear. Why? You realize that expertise takes up a lot of the ilvl of an item right? The point of Expertise isn't for dominating lesser geared players, it's for ensuring that top-tier PvPers are not forced to do hardcore PvE to remain competitive. Edited January 4, 2012 by Paganini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Expertise is needed to prevent pve gear to be competitive in pvp and the other way around. Why is this a problem, explain please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why is this a problem, explain please? Because it doesn't work for instant gratification casuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why is this a problem, explain please? Because when I was a hardcore PvPer in vanilla WoW I had to raid 20 hours a week or more to keep my gear current with my opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphen Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Who cares if PvP and PvE gear are competitive. Remove expertise and cut the healing rebuff in half (which I'm assuming is there to Counter the expertise buff) I wouldn't want to see WoW S7,S8 all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) PvEers saying they're forced to PvP to get prepped for Operations as quickly as possible (no lockouts for PvP) and complaining their progression efforts were wasted because some PvPer just came in with his epic set and outperformed them. Then PvPers will complain of getting nuked by a guy from a hardcore raiding guild, like used to happen in WoW before resilience. Also, added bonus complaining - Bioware won't like it because people only need to do half the grinding and see half the content! Everything is your own problem and not a general one. There are alternatives to get gear for operations, just get 50 and do some heroic group quests or hardmodes! If you dont wan't to pvp, just don't do it. The other way around no PvPer will complaint that he gets nuked, because they have equivalent PvP gear, they only get "nuked" because they did something wrong or are just terrible players. And last sentence makes no sense at all, if I want to pvp right now, I dont have to pve and the other way around, why whould that change with equal sets? I play operations because I want to see that content, and luckily Bioware decided to make this content avaiable to almost everyone! Edited January 4, 2012 by Samurro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Because when I was a hardcore PvPer in vanilla WoW I had to raid 20 hours a week or more to keep my gear current with my opposition. That was because there was superior gear in PvE content compared to PvP, thats just not the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I wouldn't want to see WoW S7,S8 all over again I think a lot of people are basing their opinion off of something like this... but WoW is WoW, and the only MMO I played where gear was so regularly refreshed. I'm more inclined to work with what we have now and not assume that 6 months from now the item level cap is going to be doubled again (and again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 That was because there was superior gear in PvE content compared to PvP, thats just not the case here. If PvP gear is equal to PvE gear then PvEers will complain tremendously that they are forced to do PvP to be competitive. If PvP gear isn't equal to PvE gear then PvPers will complain tremendously that they are forced to do PvE to be competitive. The only solution is to put in a PvP stat that ensures PvP gear is superior in PvP but inferior in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlodo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Who cares if PvP and PvE gear are competitive. Pretty much everybody, PvPers and PvEers alike. PvEers don't like people being competitive in raids with gear they farmed off BGs. PvPers don't like to be steamrolled by people who have better gear than them just because they are in a guild capable of killing a dumb mob-on-steroids every week. It's all about making it so that you gear up for an activity by doing that activity, instead of "cheating" and gearing up by doing something else altogether. If you like both pve and pvp and want to gear up for both, then you have to participate in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 That was because there was superior gear in PvE content compared to PvP, thats just not the case here. Let me put this in a way you can understand BIOWARE Puts really hard operation in game PvE Carebear trys really hard operation with gear from previous Operation PvE Carebear can't kill the bad robot in new Operation PvE Carebear is forced to PvP to get better gear, because he is bad and can't kill operation with intended gear. A PvP stat is needed, period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If PvP gear is equal to PvE gear then PvEers will complain tremendously that they are forced to do PvP to be competitive. If PvP gear isn't equal to PvE gear then PvPers will complain tremendously that they are forced to do PvE to be competitive. The only solution is to put in a PvP stat that ensures PvP gear is superior in PvP but inferior in PvE. No, if they are equal then you can do which ever one you want only and be "competitive" because they are... equal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 BIOWARE Puts really hard operation in game They don't even have a combat log, and you're talking about PvE like we're on the latest tier in WoW or something. Hows about working with what we have rather than what you anticipate will be needed 2 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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