Shield spec with Gut, viable in PvP?

[ZuperTrooper]

I just dont like Energy Pulse...it has a slow animation, weak damage for top tier talent and besides, I dont really have problems with my ammo.

 

So I thought about this build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGrboroGZMsr0oZb.1

 

Advantages:

 

- Pimped up Stockstrike and HIB for nice burst

- Gut for more sustained damage and a constant DOT helping HIB uptime

- Very good damage mitigation while being able to maintain good pressure thanks to Blaster Augs and Frontline offense.

 

Honestly, I cant find any BAD choices in this build , but I'd like to have your input on this before I commit.

[Andrew_Past]

I would like so seem some opinions on this as well. I have been considering a build like this myself.

[GuyWithFace]

This is my current spec. I haven't really had the chance to compare it to a full Shield Spec spec, but for the last 54 Valor ranks, it's worked for me. Gut has a few uses among getting a HIB off if Stockstrike is on CD for whatever reason, and it's nice to put on an enemy or two before you die so the DoT ticks while they try to cap something.

 

I'm this spec because the 5 points for 3.8% mitigation is a bit steep, and I've never really found myself Ammo-starved enough to need Energy Blast.

[bglodt]

This is my current spec. I haven't really had the chance to compare it to a full Shield Spec spec, but for the last 54 Valor ranks, it's worked for me. Gut has a few uses among getting a HIB off if Stockstrike is on CD for whatever reason, and it's nice to put on an enemy or two before you die so the DoT ticks while they try to cap something.

 

I'm this spec because the 5 points for 3.8% mitigation is a bit steep, and I've never really found myself Ammo-starved enough to need Energy Blast.

 

 

That seems to be a pretty common build theme, going up to gut in tactics, and not taking energy blast in shield. The specifics come down to whether you want to be more "tanky" or more "DPSy". I run a similar build but i took the two points out of soldiers endurance and put it into intimidation for the extra 4% damage (for a total of 6% vs the 2% you have in this build) for ion pulse, pulse cannon, and explosive surge (all elemental damage). I figure you had to put 2 points in front line offense to to get gut ( which boosts ion cell and gut damage by 6%) why not continue to buff IPs damage. This is a more DPS oriented shield spec. If you wanted to make it more tankish, put a full 3 points in soldiers endurance, and move other points around to put 2 in counterattack. Just my preference.

Edited January 4, 2012 by bglodt

[Pistols]

I'm sure Gut is a solid ability in PvP, I've used it in a few builds I've tried, and had no complaints. However, as a full Shield spec for the most part, I find my job is to stay alive as much as possible, and absorb any damage from anyone I am guarding. After a WZ, the amount of damage w/o Gut is probably insignificant overall, but as mentioned above, it may prevent a cap for a few seconds before reinforcements arrive. I don't think it's a negative, but looking at some of the builds above, there are choices there I just can't get onboard with.

 

1. Tactical Tools - This reduces the Harpoon ability by 10 seconds...which IMO, is a HUGE factor in PvP. I can't count how many times I've pulled a healer to my position just so my team can take him out fast. The 10 second reduction has proved to be valuable, and of course it lowers the CD on PC by 3 seconds which isn't so bad.

 

2. Containment Tactics - I'm shocked neither of you have points invested in this, especially coming from a PvP perspective. Again, this lowers one of your most crucial abilities by 10 seconds...IMO, this is a must have, at least 1 point anyways.

 

3. Damage Reduction Boxes - I find these to be meh; when in PvP, it's easy to get focus fired constantly, and even when combined with shields the return seems sorta small and regardless you'll die anyways. Now, if it's only a 1 on 1 or small scale PvP I can understand it...but in WZ's...or open World I think it's sorta a waste to spend 4 points for 4% reduction. Just my opinion on this though.

 

4. Neural Overload - Way overrated. 50% Reduction to movement for 2 seconds? Even for 1 point, I can think of other areas that one could benefit from. =)

 

*******

 

Some pointers (from my perspective)

 

1. Defensive Measures - It's essentially a great 2 pointer, not only will it immobilize your targets from harpoon for 3 seconds, it also grants 3 seconds of immobilization from your stealth scan for 3 seconds on anyone it reveals. That's pretty huge for 2 points, and we all know how many cloaking Imps there are lol.

 

2. Smoke Grenade - Not a bad pick-up for 1 point, I'd rather pick this up for 1 point than Neural overload, as the debuff lasts 15 seconds longer and has much higher returns.

 

Overall it's not a horrible set-up either of you have, but I think after a WZ, missing out on Gut isn't going to make or break the team...let alone up your damage by any significant amount. Shield Tech to me has some cunning abilities that can be very useful to your team, so I try to max out the potential of these and it has served me well. I know everyones playstyle is different, and there is no perfect tree, but I recommend trying this one out and see how ya like it.

 

Shield Spec.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pistols

[Guurzak]

Note that Counterattack returns less than 1% mitigation per point unless you have at least 50% absorb. Also, Rebraced Armor returns less than 1% overall mitigation per point given that pvp builds often emphasize armor-penetrating or -ignoring attacks.

[Pistols]

Note that Counterattack returns less than 1% mitigation per point unless you have at least 50% absorb. Also, Rebraced Armor returns less than 1% overall mitigation per point given that pvp builds often emphasize armor-penetrating or -ignoring attacks.

 

Yup noted, but in all honesty, my job is to absorb as much damage as possible. Fully buffed and all cooldowns popped, I can hit that shield/absorb fairly high. I'd rather focus on shielding attacks, than picking up small damage spec abilities that really don't have any better returns. I'm not saying Counterattack/Rebraced armor > All other options....but in PvP, every bit of defense points works for me as my role is a mitigiation specialist. However, I can see both sides of the coin, I just prefer my focus to be defensive.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pistols

[Guurzak]

I'm not arguing otherwise, but that contradicts your statement that you think it's a waste to spend 4 points on 4% damage reduction. Why invest in rebraced armor before power armor/ion shield? It's quite simply less mitigation for your talent points.

[Pistols]

I'm not arguing otherwise, but that contradicts your statement that you think it's a waste to spend 4 points on 4% damage reduction. Why invest in rebraced armor before power armor/ion shield? It's quite simply less mitigation for your talent points.

 

4 Points - Damage Reduction

 

4 Points - 4% Shield Chance / 16% Armor Rating

 

The armor rating essentially negates a portion of the armor break debuffs in PvP, and Shield % goes with my main defensive attribute (absord). Also, the point placement of the above mentioned, will also have a profound effect on my allocation in my expertise. By picking up PA/IS, I lose out on an additional attack as well as 6% Shield chance. I don't see anything else worth dropping for the those 2. This, of course, is just my opinion and seems to work just fine.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pistols

[Pistols]

I'd be willing to change my set-up of course, if in fact the reduction is better suited in PvP. Honestly, I just haven't tested every build enough to say I know every advantage to this and that, but the debate over Shield/Armor % against Reduction could be something worth investigating. Will give that a try as well, and see if I notice a difference.

[Guurzak]

my job is to absorb as much damage as possible. Fully buffed and all cooldowns popped, I can hit that shield/absorb fairly high. I'd rather focus on shielding attacks, than picking up small damage spec abilities that really don't have any better returns

 

If this is indeed your design philosophy you're simply doing it wrong. You have points in mitigation abilities (rebraced armor) which are numerically inferior to other unused mitigation talents (static field, ion shield). You also have points in "small damage spec abilities" (blaster augs, supercharged ion) which could be moved into mitigation. All of those changes could be made without any structural reworking of your trees.

 

Obviously you're under no obligation to do so and may very well be successful without fully optimizing your build to match your stated philosophy. I just wanted to point out that the build you offered is not fully in compliance with the design philosophy you stated. If that's not of interest to you, please have fun playing the game in whatever way you enjoy.

[Pistols]

If this is indeed your design philosophy you're simply doing it wrong. You have points in mitigation abilities (rebraced armor) which are numerically inferior to other unused mitigation talents (static field, ion shield). You also have points in "small damage spec abilities" (blaster augs, supercharged ion) which could be moved into mitigation. All of those changes could be made without any structural reworking of your trees.

 

Obviously you're under no obligation to do so and may very well be successful without fully optimizing your build to match your stated philosophy. I just wanted to point out that the build you offered is not fully in compliance with the design philosophy you stated. If that's not of interest to you, please have fun playing the game in whatever way you enjoy.

 

Lol ok.

 

In short, I'd rather take 33% IC damage > 4% Damage Mitigation.

 

Also, you can't have SCI without taking IO, which IMO IC is pretty nice to have compared to other "small damage spec abilities". Perhaps you shld look into that term.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pistols

[Guurzak]

You might want to take a hard look at how much damage ion cell is actually doing for you before you decide how valuable that 33% is. Protip: the tooltip overstates the actual damage by a wide margin.

[ZuperTrooper]

I'm sure Gut is a solid ability in PvP, I've used it in a few builds I've tried, and had no complaints. However, as a full Shield spec for the most part, I find my job is to stay alive as much as possible, and absorb any damage from anyone I am guarding. After a WZ, the amount of damage w/o Gut is probably insignificant overall, but as mentioned above, it may prevent a cap for a few seconds before reinforcements arrive. I don't think it's a negative, but looking at some of the builds above, there are choices there I just can't get onboard with.

 

1. Tactical Tools - This reduces the Harpoon ability by 10 seconds...which IMO, is a HUGE factor in PvP. I can't count how many times I've pulled a healer to my position just so my team can take him out fast. The 10 second reduction has proved to be valuable, and of course it lowers the CD on PC by 3 seconds which isn't so bad.

 

2. Containment Tactics - I'm shocked neither of you have points invested in this, especially coming from a PvP perspective. Again, this lowers one of your most crucial abilities by 10 seconds...IMO, this is a must have, at least 1 point anyways.

 

3. Damage Reduction Boxes - I find these to be meh; when in PvP, it's easy to get focus fired constantly, and even when combined with shields the return seems sorta small and regardless you'll die anyways. Now, if it's only a 1 on 1 or small scale PvP I can understand it...but in WZ's...or open World I think it's sorta a waste to spend 4 points for 4% reduction. Just my opinion on this though.

 

4. Neural Overload - Way overrated. 50% Reduction to movement for 2 seconds? Even for 1 point, I can think of other areas that one could benefit from. =)

 

*******

 

Some pointers (from my perspective)

 

1. Defensive Measures - It's essentially a great 2 pointer, not only will it immobilize your targets from harpoon for 3 seconds, it also grants 3 seconds of immobilization from your stealth scan for 3 seconds on anyone it reveals. That's pretty huge for 2 points, and we all know how many cloaking Imps there are lol.

 

2. Smoke Grenade - Not a bad pick-up for 1 point, I'd rather pick this up for 1 point than Neural overload, as the debuff lasts 15 seconds longer and has much higher returns.

 

Overall it's not a horrible set-up either of you have, but I think after a WZ, missing out on Gut isn't going to make or break the team...let alone up your damage by any significant amount. Shield Tech to me has some cunning abilities that can be very useful to your team, so I try to max out the potential of these and it has served me well. I know everyones playstyle is different, and there is no perfect tree, but I recommend trying this one out and see how ya like it.

 

Shield Spec.

 

To comment a bit on you points:

 

1. Energy Blast : I LOATHE it in PvP. It's animation delay caused me immense frustrations . I dropped it like a bad habbit because I have no issues with ammo nor does it do great damage. They really need to beef it up a bit to be a viable top tier talent.

 

2. Neural Overload is purely for kiting purposes . It's a great tool to have when facing melee and costs only one point.

 

3. Smoke Grenade is useless in PvP situations, because you have to STAND IN the area of effect to receive the bonuses. And standing still in PvP is a big no no.

 

4. I am generally a fan of passive bonuses and do not really like cooldown reducing talents. Besides, I feel confortable with the default cooldown on Cryo. If I were to invest in a CD reducing talent, my first pick would be Riot Strike , since it has a much bigger impact

 

5. Defensive Measures: yeah...I guess it's a pretty good talent to have in PvP. Will experiment how it works with it.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ZuperTrooper

[ElTorqiro]

Just sitting on the sidelines for this discussion has been a big help in just making me think about some of these things more carefully. Cheers for the thoughtful comments guys, I anticipate a weekend of build testing coming up

[bglodt]

3. Smoke Grenade is useless in PvP situations, because you have to STAND IN the area of effect to receive the bonuses. And standing still in PvP is a big no no.

 

Hmmmmm i actually believe it is initially PBAoE but once they get the debuff it sticks with them for the duration, even if they move out of the area of effect.

 

I'll verify tonight and get back to you on this.

[Phixler]

I just dont like Energy Pulse...it has a slow animation, weak damage for top tier talent and besides, I dont really have problems with my ammo.

 

So I thought about this build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGrboroGZMsr0oZb.1

 

Advantages:

 

- Pimped up Stockstrike and HIB for nice burst

- Gut for more sustained damage and a constant DOT helping HIB uptime

- Very good damage mitigation while being able to maintain good pressure thanks to Blaster Augs and Frontline offense.

 

Honestly, I cant find any BAD choices in this build , but I'd like to have your input on this before I commit.

 

Here are some choices I find to be bad in your build:

 

1. I would take defensive measures over Ion shield. 2% damage reduction is crap, especially for 2 points....as opposed to 100% root on a harpoon....which if used correctly is insta-death when they get focused by your group. I see you did this to synergize with the 2% in tactics....which I will explain below, but those 2 points belong in reducing riot strike cooldown instead.

 

2. I drop a point form shield cycler and get smoke bomb. More preference, but if you storm into their back lines and hit a bunch of ranged with smoke bomb it helps the whole team. Not to mention it helps vs. melee trains/cleaves.

 

3. I don't use counterattack I put those 3 points in the endurance in assault. Probably personal preference but I prefer solid stat gains over %chances. Also the 3% endurance scales with your gear.

 

4. In tactics, you need 2 seconds off of Riot Strike. It is one of the best talents in the game for us IMO. It makes you a complete healer/caster lockdown machine. You get 4 seconds of spell lockout on a 6 second cooldown....

 

5. I only find Gut to be good when fully specced. When specced this way, Shockstrike auto - procs ion cell, which if specced this way, adds a dot to the target for you for HIB procs. Not spammable, but if you are aware of this it works well considering cooldowns are about the same for shockstrike/HIB.

 

Just my opinion. I'm using this build currently and loving it:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGodRboMZrsMdZbc.1

[happyhappyjoy]

Gut is terrible. It's an ammo hog. It's not burst.

 

Smoke Grenade is terrible.

 

Once you get your pvp gear at 50 you'll find that you don't need 31 points in shield to be nigh unkillable. You do need storm, you need ion cell up and you need guard on someone for your 5 percent bonus.

 

All that said this -

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbboroMZZbIbrzh.1

 

is the best pvp spec right now. I shouldn't share this secret knowledge with you, but I will. Why is this good you ask... Wait - you have to take talents you won't even use in the assault tree???

 

Degauss is golden - you now have two cc escapes.

High friction bolts is good and, oh yeah, if you happened to cast incendiary round on the target your HIB was just free.

 

IONIC ACCELERATOR is the greatest thing ever. Your best attacks are Stockstrike and HIB. What do you do besides that, if you're a noob you're throwing those lousy sticky grenades. If you are decent you are ion pulsing people in the face and waiting for your static shield to remove the cooldown on stockstrike - WHAT IF ALL YOUR ION PULSING ALSO REMOVED A 15 SECOND COOLDOWN ON YOUR BEST ATTACK.

 

Don't suck, do this and get 12 medals every match.

 

HAYDUKE

Adjunta Pall

Edited January 6, 2012 by happyhappyjoy

[ZuperTrooper]

Gut is terrible. It's an ammo hog. It's not burst.

 

Smoke Grenade is terrible.

 

Once you get your pvp gear at 50 you'll find that you don't need 31 points in shield to be nigh unkillable. You do need storm, you need ion cell up and you need guard on someone for your 5 percent bonus.

 

All that said this -

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbboroMZZbIbrzh.1

 

is the best pvp spec right now. I shouldn't share this secret knowledge with you, but I will. Why is this good you ask... Wait - you have to take talents you won't even use in the assault tree???

 

Degauss is golden - you now have two cc escapes.

High friction bolts is good and, oh yeah, if you happened to cast incendiary round on the target your HIB was just free.

 

IONIC ACCELERATOR is the greatest thing ever. Your best attacks are Stockstrike and HIB. What do you do besides that, if you're a noob you're throwing those lousy sticky grenades. If you are decent you are ion pulsing people in the face and waiting for your static shield to remove the cooldown on stockstrike - WHAT IF ALL YOUR ION PULSING ALSO REMOVED A 15 SECOND COOLDOWN ON YOUR BEST ATTACK.

 

Don't suck, do this and get 12 medals every match.

 

HAYDUKE

Adjunta Pall

 

 

Oh, wow. Definately a weird take on Shield / Assault spec. Never thought to go this high in the Assoult tree, It's so crazy that I kinda like it

 

A few questions tho:

 

- don't you feel a bit vulnerable as a tank without taking points in Rebraced Armor and Counterattack? Or you balance that with the Supercommando item set +Def stats?

 

- to reach that high ion the Assault tree you have points wasted in talents that boost your plasma cell. Not sure if I feel ok about that.

 

- how do you live without Frontline Defenses! Surely healers must pisss you off...

 

Anyway , surely an intreseting spec, but cant drop the feeling that you would be a tank-glasscannon using this

Edited January 6, 2012 by ZuperTrooper

[Yeke]

"1. Defensive Measures - It's essentially a great 2 pointer, not only will it immobilize your targets from harpoon for 3 seconds, it also grants 3 seconds of immobilization from your stealth scan for 3 seconds on anyone it reveals. That's pretty huge for 2 points, and we all know how many cloaking Imps there are lol."

 

Might just be me or maybe lag but the stun component on harpoon is useless and a detriment in PvP, it appears to stun the player the moment harpoon is activated, therefore stunning the player for the duration of his journey from where he was to you, not only this but the stun does add to their resolve bar, by the time your target lands if it was at 0 resolve its a whisker away from full resolve if it already had any resolve its now at max, if the skill stunned after the target had landed it would be worthwhile but currently all it does is give your target almost full resolve for no benefit.

[ursusarctus]

4. Neural Overload - Way overrated. 50% Reduction to movement for 2 seconds? Even for 1 point, I can think of other areas that one could benefit from. =)

 

Actually is one of the best abilities.

 

You can kite indefinetly , you can cacth everyone , you can escape everyone.

 

Its soo good rly

[Kilokov]

Gut is terrible. It's an ammo hog. It's not burst.

 

Smoke Grenade is terrible.

 

Once you get your pvp gear at 50 you'll find that you don't need 31 points in shield to be nigh unkillable. You do need storm, you need ion cell up and you need guard on someone for your 5 percent bonus.

 

All that said this -

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbboroMZZbIbrzh.1

 

is the best pvp spec right now. I shouldn't share this secret knowledge with you, but I will. Why is this good you ask... Wait - you have to take talents you won't even use in the assault tree???

 

Degauss is golden - you now have two cc escapes.

High friction bolts is good and, oh yeah, if you happened to cast incendiary round on the target your HIB was just free.

 

IONIC ACCELERATOR is the greatest thing ever. Your best attacks are Stockstrike and HIB. What do you do besides that, if you're a noob you're throwing those lousy sticky grenades. If you are decent you are ion pulsing people in the face and waiting for your static shield to remove the cooldown on stockstrike - WHAT IF ALL YOUR ION PULSING ALSO REMOVED A 15 SECOND COOLDOWN ON YOUR BEST ATTACK.

 

Don't suck, do this and get 12 medals every match.

 

HAYDUKE

Adjunta Pall

 

Wow, I hadn't even considered the Assault tree before. Incendiary round is just as good as Gut and even scales off the % bonuses from the shield tree.

[Ishkur]

To comment a bit on you points:

 

1. Energy Blast : I LOATHE it in PvP. It's animation delay caused me immense frustrations . I dropped it like a bad habbit because I have no issues with ammo nor does it do great damage. They really need to beef it up a bit to be a viable top tier talent.

 

2. Neural Overload is purely for kiting purposes . It's a great tool to have when facing melee and costs only one point.

 

3. Smoke Grenade is useless in PvP situations, because you have to STAND IN the area of effect to receive the bonuses. And standing still in PvP is a big no no.

 

4. I am generally a fan of passive bonuses and do not really like cooldown reducing talents. Besides, I feel confortable with the default cooldown on Cryo. If I were to invest in a CD reducing talent, my first pick would be Riot Strike , since it has a much bigger impact

 

5. Defensive Measures: yeah...I guess it's a pretty good talent to have in PvP. Will experiment how it works with it.

 

1. Energy blast is useless

 

2.Every Melee will love you for your 1 point almost perma slow.

 

3. No, you debuff all enemys in range at the point your use the smokebomb

 

4. what you said

[kKauz]

Good stuff right here gang.

[elithrar]

A 30/11 or 2x/1x (27/13, or 25/15) build is the way to go. Depends if you expect to do some light PvE work with the same build, but Gut > Energy Blast. DPS (burst) wise they're similar, but Gut has the LONG DoT (useful for node defense) + a much, much faster/more fluid animation.

 

Energy Blast is anything but an instant right now.