Balance to the force was not balance

[Pirate_Ron]

Again, incorrect. His only statement regarding balance is.. The Sith unbalance the force and they are evil. That's all there is to it. No Sith = Balance. He has never stated the light side is the natural aspect of the force and the dark side is bad. Never has this been stated. In fact even the clone wars cartoon debunks this. The Father keeps his two "Children." in check. It's not that simplistic. The Jedi aren't too biased. The Jedi are not the same as the Sith "but Light."

 

The Jedi do not aim to make the entire galaxy light. They don't try to force this. The Sith STRIVE to destroy the Light side and to smother the galaxy in darkness. This is why they unbalance the force. The Jedi do not aim for the destruction of the dark side. They don't strive to remove the dark aspects of the force. They don't enforce their views on others.

 

I don't think they want to shroud it in darkness so much as bend the universe to their will. This is being their driving force has them using the force and upsetting the balance of nature. Which if you think about it, any manipulation of the force is unbalancing to nature. I see bringing balance to the force as obliteration of all trained force users. The Jedi don't want to see that since it means their own death and with their own death they won't be around to keep any dark side users in check.

[Mikeni]

Sounds like someone just read Darth Plagueis.

[Pirate_Ron]

Sounds like someone just read Darth Plagueis.

 

If you're referring to me, then nope. Only read the original trilogy (new hope on) so far.

 

I just see the force as lifeforce based on how it is described. Force users are simply able to manipulate this lifeforce.

[Valgranth]

When the jedi talk about bringing balance to the force I laugh. Because they clearly misunderstand what balance means. They say bring balance to the force by destroying the dark side of the force. But they don't realize that destroying the dark side of the force would bring imbalance not balance. Because balance means there is evil and good. If the dark side was destroyed there would only be good. so the jedi's quest would actually bring alot of imbalance to the force instead, good thing they never totally succeeded.

 

Has anyone else noticed this.

The explanation typically proffered is that the dark side is like a cancer, ergo removing said cancer would be a restoration of the true equilibrium.

 

Though you and I both probably feel that passion and control can be effectively balanced.

[JAndrade]

Well the force is like guns in the hands of trained and responsible person guns can help people, but when someone who is not responsible with firearms picks one up "bad" things happen and most people say that if we get rid of irresponsible gun users then we get rid of the problem. So that being said if you get rid of dark side force users of you wouldn't be solving the problem, because there will always be more, so education is the solution.

 

And to do the same thing to the force is redundant, and Luke and Leia do this by teaching new Jedi's both sides of the force thus making it more human actions and nature that turn a person to the dark side rather than just emotions.

[Mycrof]

I wouldn't expect much from someone whose first edit started "in a time long, long ago in the not so distant future."

[Restepor]

I believe there is already a topic on this...but here goes.

 

The Force exists, in its natural state, as the light side. The dark side is a corruption and a corruption of any sort is not natural. Therefore using the dark side of the force is throwing the force off-balance. Lucas himself has stated that balance in the force means purely light side.

Yep, couldn't say anything beyond this.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

I wouldn't expect much from someone whose first edit started "in a time long, long ago in the not so distant future."

 

That's an urban myth, found on the same list of made-up facts as

"Although Star Wars and Empire were big hits, the studio refused to greenlight Return of the Jedi until Lucas drew out a detailed merchandising plan and promised more toy-friendly characters than Empire. (Hence, Ewoks.)"

 

Too bad the "studio" was LucasFilm, owned by George Lucas.

[Rhyltran]

I don't think they want to shroud it in darkness so much as bend the universe to their will. This is being their driving force has them using the force and upsetting the balance of nature. Which if you think about it, any manipulation of the force is unbalancing to nature. I see bringing balance to the force as obliteration of all trained force users. The Jedi don't want to see that since it means their own death and with their own death they won't be around to keep any dark side users in check.

 

They do. The Light Side was effectively dying out. The Jedi's ability to use the force was diminishing.

 

"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."

 

From Leland Chee. As you can see. He covered the galaxy in darkness. Not to mention it's also a known fact that he studied jedi disciplines but only took what he could corrupt. The only aspect of the force Sidious used was the dark side. He did find ways to bend jedi techniques to be useable on the dark side but.. still dark side. As per Lucas' quote. It's the Sith that were out of balance. Not the Jedi. Destroying the Jedi would not achieve balance. The force created anakin specifically for him to eventually destroy the Sith.

[Snowcrashed]

First thing that went through my head with the whole balance concept and the chosen one crap was... okay... so there are like 2 sith and thousands of jedi.... no matter which way we go balance would be a bad thing.

[Sanguiluna]

That's actually the point I made earlier. Before The Clone Wars, it was all cut and dry. Lucas' comments made it pretty clear how things were supposed to work at the G-Canon level. Then The Clone Wars went and effed everything up by making EU garbage mainstream.

 

Now you're sounding like those same guys who used to bash Lucas about his "Balance=No Dark Side" ruling. I'm going to say the same thing I said to them: It doesn't have to make logical sense because this isn't a real universe, it's a fictional universe. I thought the 'Balance=Lightside only" and "Jedi are the true Force religion" idea was stupid but still went with it, except in RP-ing situations.

[Aurbere]

Wow. Almost two years. Impressive.

[tunewalker]

This will be covered in the third rendition of My Midichlorians and force analysis To see part 1 head here

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=711331

[Pingonaut]

Then George Lucas is a idiot. And I don't think we should take his word seriously. He has already proved a idiot by making all the edits to the star wars, other than CGI like making Greedo shoot first. Or making Darth Vader say noooooooo. Or Obi-Wan making a gay sound to scare tuskian raiders away. He edited it to make everyone weaker, which is stupid.

 

You know George made Star Wars, right?

 

edit: Wow, who the heck necro'd this?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Pingonaut

[PorchTroll]

So like, imagine the galaxy as a bowl of cheerios. The force would be the milk, because that's the way cheerios were meant to be. The dark side corruption would be me pissing in the cheerios.

 

Now, to bring balance back, we filter out the piss so we have just milk again, and all will be right with the universe.

 

Until some clown comes along who doesn't understand the difference between milk and piss and starts an argument about how restoring the natural balance would mean having equal parts milk and piss in your cheerios.

[Beniboybling]

So like, imagine the galaxy as a bowl of cheerios. The force would be the milk, because that's the way cheerios were meant to be. The dark side corruption would be me pissing in the cheerios.

 

Now, to bring balance back, we filter out the piss so we have just milk again, and all will be right with the universe.

 

Until some clown comes along who doesn't understand the difference between milk and piss and starts an argument about how restoring the natural balance would mean having equal parts milk and piss in your cheerios.

This is not only a poor analogy, but also incorrect. Not very impressive for your first post... Edited February 12, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

This is already a two-year necro. Let's leave it alone.

[tunewalker]

This is not only a poor analogy, but also incorrect.

 

I would say it wasnt entirely incorrect, but rather then Piss it would be more like .... rotten Milk. The Force and the Dark side are the same to start The Force answers to all who call be it dark side or Light, a Dark sider that calls on it takes it into them and then corrupts it, do it enogh Dark Side Nexi are created where negative energy responds quickly to those that draw on it but The Force responds much slower to a user of light, until said user purifies it. At least thats my understanding. So more like Light side is good milk Dark side is milk that has gone bad, or rotten.

[Beniboybling]

I would say it wasnt entirely incorrect, but rather then Piss it would be more like .... rotten Milk. The Force and the Dark side are the same to start The Force answers to all who call be it dark side or Light, a Dark sider that calls on it takes it into them and then corrupts it, do it enogh Dark Side Nexi are created where negative energy responds quickly to those that draw on it but The Force responds much slower to a user of light, until said user purifies it. At least thats my understanding. So more like Light side is good milk Dark side is milk that has gone bad, or rotten.

As long as you treat the material as necessary, but that post clearly was not.

[tunewalker]

As long as you treat the material as necessary, but that post clearly was not.

 

The force is in balance when there is no dark side corruption according to Lucas. Thus if there is no Rotten Milk in the bowl and just Milk in the bowl The Force is in balance. The Force itself is neutral it answers to all that call Dark side or Light (aka pure milk responds to every one, rotten milk only responds to the rotten). So in a sense the rotten milk or dark side corruption is NOT a neccisary material for The Force to be in balance according to Lucas.

[Beniboybling]

The force is in balance when there is no dark side corruption according to Lucas. Thus if there is no Rotten Milk in the bowl and just Milk in the bowl The Force is in balance. The Force itself is neutral it answers to all that call Dark side or Light (aka pure milk responds to every one, rotten milk only responds to the rotten). So in a sense the rotten milk or dark side corruption is NOT a neccisary material for The Force to be in balance according to Lucas.

George Lucas has since claimed balance in the Force is an equal measure of light and dark. I'll dig up the evidence.

[Beniboybling]

Here is the information, I have a feeling that the upcoming bonus episodes will expand on the following.

 

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

"In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything."

 

-George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

 

"The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

 

"The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'"

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

 

"The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance."

 

-The Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

And from the Mortis arc from the Clone Wars cartoon, of which Lucas was heavily involved:

 

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

 

The Father, who keeps control over the Daughter and the Son i.e. maintains balance, seeks the Chosen One to replace him. Proving the Chosen One would restore balance to the Force through balancing the light with the dark, not destroying the dark side. Lore surrounding the Je'Daii Order has also expanded on this concept. The Je'Daii Order being the origins of both the Jedi and Sith, a group of Force Users who strived above all things to achieve balance:

 

"In the light, there is a darkness and in the darkness, a light. It is the way with us all. Be a prisoner of neither Bogan nor Ashla. Strive to live in balance. As Tython itself teaches us, it is dangerous to do otherwise. And the danger is there—always."

 

--Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm 1

 

"Observing the world around them, they saw two moons in the one sky—light Ashla and dark Bogan—and they understood the dual aspects to the Force, light and dark. The light defined the dark as the dark did the light. When balance was not maintained, Tython reacted to the imbalance with severe storms and quakes. And so the travelers defined themselves, ever seeking a balance. They became the Je'daii, a Dai Bendu term meaning "mystic center." Only through the harmony of balance could the Je'daii maintain a peaceful world."

 

--Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm 1

 

The idea that the dark side or dark side "corruption" has to be erased in order to establish balance is a common misconception based on one quote were Lucas says the Force is a 'cancer', however clearly Lucas no longer holds this to be true, given the Mortis episodes which Lucas himself had a heavy hand in creating i.e. it was his idea. This instead is the belief held by the Jedi, that restoring balance involves destroying the dark side entirely.

 

But according to Wookieepedia:

 

George Lucas himself has stated that Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although it had been misinterpreted by the entire Jedi Order.

 

--Source from Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith DVD commentary & Star Wars Insider 74

 

The idea that balance in the Force is simply the light side and that the dark side is a cancer has since been overridden. Not that that makes any sense as the very word 'balance' implies equality between light and dark, destruction and chaos, light and shadow. One cannot exist without the other.

 

==================================================

 

I would agree that wielders of the dark side push against balance by propagating dark side energy. But this does not make the dark side a "cancer" that needs to be removed. It is not rotten milk that needs to be thrown away.

[tunewalker]

The only issue I have then is with Vader some how bringing balance when he destroyed The Emperor and himself. Was balanced achieved because there was enough natural evil left in the galaxy that the 1 lightsider balanced it out? I dont some of it just seems suspect. I get the idea that everything is in balance and that there is Yin and Yang, but thats why I always thought The Force itself is Neutral it is neither light or dark and that the Dark is a Corruption of it and there really is no such thing as a Light side nexus or Light side corruption because Light doesnt alter what the Force is while the Dark does attempt to. The people who use the light dont try to change anything about how the force is while those that use the Dark are malevolent and thus try to corrupt The Force. Other wise, why are their Dark side Nexi, but no such thing as a Light side Nexus.

[Beniboybling]

The only issue I have then is with Vader some how bringing balance when he destroyed The Emperor and himself. Was balanced achieved because there was enough natural evil left in the galaxy that the 1 lightsider balanced it out? I dont some of it just seems suspect. I get the idea that everything is in balance and that there is Yin and Yang, but thats why I always thought The Force itself is Neutral it is neither light or dark and that the Dark is a Corruption of it and there really is no such thing as a Light side nexus or Light side corruption because Light doesnt alter what the Force is while the Dark does attempt to. The people who use the light dont try to change anything about how the force is while those that use the Dark are malevolent and thus try to corrupt The Force. Other wise, why are their Dark side Nexi, but no such thing as a Light side Nexus.

We shouldn't consider it in terms of numbers, its a bit more... metaphysical that that.

 

Remember that Darth Sidious was responsible for putting the Force out of balance, for shifting it distinctly towards the dark side and spreading his power throughout the entire galaxy. Destroying him restored this.

 

Also remember that Force is semi-sentient. If the dark side is a corruption of the Force it cannot remain neutral, because the Force actively strives for balance i.e. creating the Chosen One, so it would attempt to eradicate it.

 

You are right about the last part though.

 

Altogether with Yoda going out to scout the "mysteries of the Force" and it being hinted at a long while back that TCW series was going to expand on the nature of the Chosen One and the Mortis arc, I think we should wait and see.

[tunewalker]

We shouldn't consider it in terms of numbers, its a bit more... metaphysical that that.

 

Remember that Darth Sidious was responsible for putting the Force out of balance, for shifting it distinctly towards the dark side and spreading his power throughout the entire galaxy. Destroying him restored this.

 

Also remember that Force is semi-sentient. If the dark side is a corruption of the Force it cannot remain neutral, because the Force actively strives for balance i.e. creating the Chosen One, so it would attempt to eradicate it.

 

You are right about the last part though.

 

Altogether with Yoda going out to scout the "mysteries of the Force" and it being hinted at a long while back that TCW series was going to expand on the nature of the Chosen One and the Mortis arc, I think we should wait and see.

 

lol I just realized we are in part Jedi/ sith ourselves when talking about this trying to discover "The great mystery that is The Force" lol.