The reasons this game is doing so well and better than expected.

[its_them]

WoW has certaintly harmed the MMO world, I think we can agree to that. However, SWTOR is restoring it quickly!

 

Well I played wow for years Im gonna play this game till my 90 days expire ( I would get a refund on my 60day card if I could)

 

I only bought the 60 day card because I was forced to for 'added security' to go with the passwords keycards and 5 security questions.

 

Rose tinted glasses, take them off.

Edited January 15, 2012 by its_them

[BobTheTeepo]

I will never, ever understand this statement and I've seen it countless times. Exactly how did it kill grinding?

When people say grind, they're probably generally referring to ACTUAL grind. P2P people seem to be unaware of it, but games like Rappelz, 12sky2, Cabal etc. Require you kill mobs over and over and over for 1,000's of hours literally. Rappelz, for example, can take days to gain a single level, and last time I checked in it's level cap was 155 IIRC.

 

I guess people need to define grind in a more specific way, but if they're talking about that kind of grind, then you have NO IDEA how sweet TOR is to those of us who have pulled 16+ hour grinds killing the same mob over... and over... and over for 16 or more hours. But as far as quest grind goes, TOR is just more flashy about it. The one thing that must be recognized here is that dialogue breaks up the kill kill kill quests, so while you may have to do kill X quests, you're also having to do dialogue which really helps make it tolerable.

[alkanterah]

I will never, ever understand this statement and I've seen it countless times. Exactly how did it kill grinding? Do people that review the game or people that claim this game kills the grinding have characters above level 20? In this game, there is probably more grinding than current Aion. The only way to progress is to backtrack constantly to complete all the objective quests, and just about every quest has bonus objective quests, which translate into nothing but pure grind. if you skip them you won't have enough experience to travel to the next planet. This is a fact, I don't know how you manage to spin it otherwise. But hey, maybe the voice overs make you totally forget why you are grinding, in that case it just doesn't work for me.

 

Actually that's not a fact. I leveled my Sniper to 50 without doing any bonus objective missions (made it a point to skip them though I did some in heroics where I was in a group). I skipped the Nar Shadda and Balmorra bonus series, I actually skipped the Alderaan bonus series on my first character but did it with my Sniper. Which really helps with alts because I can do a bonus series I skipped the last time through. I've never done the Hoth bonus series (Assuming it has one).

 

I do space missions from time to time and I do each flashpoint once. Leveling my third and I've never felt like I was grinding.

Edited January 15, 2012 by alkanterah

[lokivoid]

The reasons this game is doing so well and better than expected.

 

Thats odd swtorarena's server data-mining, Indicates its not doing "well" infact its showing vary rapid decline at a 3% per day average for all servers.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

 

View the population graphs befor making such claims.

[Wolfeisberg]

Great isn't exactly what I'd call it.

 

It's really only a matter of time... People will play through their stories and be left saying "what now" and unless something is changed, they will leave.

 

For me personally, I do not want to level an alt. I have this insane ability with games to remember all the little details, where things are located. I cant replay 90% of the exact same content in the exact same order to see another story.

 

Bioware seems to be relying on people not having free time to get through it quickly and then re-rolling alts.

 

But you are fine with doing the same end game raid and dungeon over and over and over again every week?

[Slaxon]

- It's still a grind only covered up by voice acting

 

I'm lead to believe that it's attitudes like these that actually cause the leveling grind. Not to be rude or anything.

[Azzras]

I have a level 50 marauder and a level 40 bounty hunter.

 

I think you are doing something wrong to have leveled two characters this fast. (spacebar much?)

 

Maybe you just need a break, m8.

[Schnerf]

When people say grind, they're probably generally referring to ACTUAL grind. P2P people seem to be unaware of it, but games like Rappelz, 12sky2, Cabal etc. Require you kill mobs over and over and over for 1,000's of hours literally. Rappelz, for example, can take days to gain a single level, and last time I checked in it's level cap was 155 IIRC.

 

I guess people need to define grind in a more specific way, but if they're talking about that kind of grind, then you have NO IDEA how sweet TOR is to those of us who have pulled 16+ hour grinds killing the same mob over... and over... and over for 16 or more hours. But as far as quest grind goes, TOR is just more flashy about it. The one thing that must be recognized here is that dialogue breaks up the kill kill kill quests, so while you may have to do kill X quests, you're also having to do dialogue which really helps make it tolerable.

 

I had a level 50 in Aion before it was patched to be less grind friendly, so I know what true grind is my friend. I just don't feel TOR does anything different, other than offer voice acting. Of course it's not forcing you to kill 800 mobs to get 10% of your level, but you catch the drift.

 

 

Actually that's not a fact. I leveled my Sniper to 50 without doing any bonus missions (made it a point to skip them). I skipped the Nar Shadda and Balmorra bonus series, I actually skipped the Alderaan bonus series on my first character but did it with my Sniper. Which really helps with alts because I can do a bonus series I skipped the last time through. I've never done the Hoth bonus series (Assuming it has one).

 

I do space missions from time to time and I do each flashpoint once. Leveling my third and I've never felt like I was grinding.

 

Of course there are ways to skip it. You can repeat the heroic quests, you can do flashpoints and you can repeat space missions/complete the pvp daily quest. On top of that you can get rested if you don't play much. What I meant was that at least I haven't found a way to level 1-50 in a solid stretch without doing the bonus quests.

[Teladis]

The reason why this game is doing well because of 2 reasons.

 

 

 

Bioware name

Star wars.

 

 

 

Thats it, This game is voice acting, with wow gameplay, lets not even get to the fact that wow is deeper, and that is pretty sad.

 

 

 

This game is a easier, and less dept version of wow. IF you need proof, look at sith warrior and wow warrior. They have the same damn skills. THE SAME SKILLS!

 

 

The very fact, that this game has blind people telling others that this game is a next gen mmo, and is great makes me sick. How can you hate wow, and like this game? They are one in the same.

[Schnerf]

I think you are doing something wrong to have leveled two characters this fast. (spacebar much?)

 

Maybe you just need a break, m8.

 

Yeah, I was honest about the spacebar thingy. I play roughly 5-6 hours per day and exceeded that quite hard during the holidays. What can I say, other than school, friends during the weekend and work every second weekend, I have no commitments or obligations in life that restrict me from wasting my time.

[Kalfear]

Originally Posted by Klarick

- Story Driven MMO. People are simply tired of WoW and its many clones (Rift...etc).

- Character Development. You begin your development at level 1 not at the end cap level.

- In SWTOR "The Real Game" starts at level 1. Most MMO's the real game doesnt start until end-cap.

- Immersive game play and environments.

- SWTOR killed "the Grind" that plagues so many MMO's.

- Fluid Combat with clashing Lightsabers!

- In SWTOR the leveling process is FUN and not a chore.

- Voice-Acted questing. Incredibly well done.

- Smooth Launch! Fairly unusual in this business but BW pulled it off.

- If its this good at launch, imagine SWTOR in a year! AMAZING!

 

 

to your bullet points:

-Yes

-Yes

-Yes

-Matter of Opinion

-Matter of Opinion

-Relatively speaking, compared to other MMOs, sure. As fluid as say Kotor? No.

-Matter of Opinion

-Matter of Opinion (No. In many regards.)

-Yes

-We'll see

 

I like your reply so lets see how the OPs fanboism and less then 7 years MMO experience stands up to full history comparrison.

 

1) Yup, Story Driven will set the way for the future (OPs little insults at other games wasnt needed or required)

 

2) Ummmm, I dont even know what hes speaking of here. Course I refused to play WOW. But since day one of oNWN back in 91 there has been character developement in MMORPGs and while I like TORs character developement, its nothing new. Lost on this point OP trying to make.

 

3) Again not true, WOW might have started at end game but MOST did not. Everquest ENDED at end game actually. DAoC allowed you to turn off xp and stay at any level of game you wanted (and trust me, the level 25-35-40 communities were very much alive and active in that game). Once again OP, WOW IS NOT MOST, its 1 MMORPG out of a endless list of MMORPGs. Perhaps you should, i dont know, learn what it is your talking about? Just a suggestion!

 

But yes, his statement that TOR is about the journey and not just the end is correct. Once again the little kid jabs at other games wasnt needed oir required

 

4) Yeah this one is a straight out NO! The enviroment is not immersive becaus eBioware refuses to allow RP servers to have a rule set that helps form immersion. Maybe OP thinks playing along side characters named "Ipeemyselfnightly" is immersive, I do not.

 

5) Your Opinion. TOR has no grind but neither did Rift, neither did any MMORPG thats been released from WOW on because they all give it away with out effort. Grind by definition requires effort and MMORPGs have been effortless for 7 years running now.

 

6) No complaints about combat from me! Combat difficulty yes but actual combat style, nope.

 

7) LOL, its clear you never played a MMORPG prior to WOW so you have never seen a MMORPG where leveling a chore so why are you even mentioning this and how is this different then #5?

 

8) Yes

 

9) Yeah if having one of the worst pre launchs in MMO history now called a smooth launch,

 

Listen you cant even try to gloss over this, Bioware name took a hit for the pre launch fiascos and thats just truth and fact and why try to spin it otherwise!

 

The launch on the 20th went fine, but by then the damage was already done in full!

 

10) opinion and opinion that doesnt even make sense so leaving it there.

 

Over all OP your post was just fanboi PR nonsense and spin.

 

TORs not terrible but man if thats how far you have to grasp to make up positives, maybe this franchise actually is in trouble cause thats really sad.

[Azzras]

Meh, to many nah sayers on the forums still. When is their sub up again?

 

+1 to OP

[Wolfeisberg]

Thats odd swtorarena's server data-mining, Indicates its not doing "well" infact its showing vary rapid decline at a 3% per day average for all servers.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

 

View the population graphs befor making such claims.

 

View that websites FAQ before making your claim

[Barracudastr]

When GW2 and Tera launch along with MoP from blizzard later this year we will see where swtor is at with its many graphical bugs, and non fluid combat ala ability delay weee.

 

Because honestly for a 2012 mmo swtor doesn't match up.

 

The only things they brought to the table:

 

Voice acting

and how the crafting works

 

Other then that theres nothing new and nothing really done better.

 

The new mmo releases for 2012 however are new and are going to change american mmo's I think.

 

state of the art game engines and graphics in GW2/Tera are pretty much removing the standard mmo holy trinity setup which in itself will draw alot of people in to try it out.

 

PS. The grind is still in swtor infact its worse if you ask me.

 

Bonus quest kill 60 of this, kill 20 of that then kill this guy thats just placed in this area with the mobs.

 

This game has grind written all over it lol. Its nothing new. Recieving the quest is new with the voice acting the objectives are not. Nor is the choice system it just brings a different line from npcs lol it doesn't really affect anything around you or in the world.

[BobTheTeepo]

I like your reply so lets see how the OPs fanboism and less then 7 years MMO experience stands up to full history comparrison.

 

1) Yup, Story Driven will set the way for the future (OPs little insults at other games wasnt needed or required)

 

2) Ummmm, I dont even know what hes speaking of here. Course I refused to play WOW. But since day one of oNWN back in 91 there has been character developement in MMORPGs and while I like TORs character developement, its nothing new. Lost on this point OP trying to make.

 

3) Again not true, WOW might have started at end game but MOST did not. Everquest ENDED at end game actually. DAoC allowed you to turn off xp and stay at any level of game you wanted (and trust me, the level 25-35-40 communities were very much alive and active in that game). Once again OP, WOW IS NOT MOST, its 1 MMORPG out of a endless list of MMORPGs. Perhaps you should, i dont know, learn what it is your talking about? Just a suggestion!

 

But yes, his statement that TOR is about the journey and not just the end is correct. Once again the little kid jabs at other games wasnt needed oir required

 

4) Yeah this one is a straight out NO! The enviroment is not immersive becaus eBioware refuses to allow RP servers to have a rule set that helps form immersion. Maybe OP thinks playing along side characters named "Ipeemyselfnightly" is immersive, I do not.

 

5) Your Opinion. TOR has no grind but neither did Rift, neither did any MMORPG thats been released from WOW on because they all give it away with out effort. Grind by definition requires effort and MMORPGs have been effortless for 7 years running now.

 

6) No complaints about combat from me! Combat difficulty yes but actual combat style, nope.

 

7) LOL, its clear you never played a MMORPG prior to WOW so you have never seen a MMORPG where leveling a chore so why are you even mentioning this and how is this different then #5?

 

8) Yes

 

9) Yeah if having one of the worst pre launchs in MMO history now called a smooth launch,

 

Listen you cant even try to gloss over this, Bioware name took a hit for the pre launch fiascos and thats just truth and fact and why try to spin it otherwise!

 

The launch on the 20th went fine, but by then the damage was already done in full!

 

10) opinion and opinion that doesnt even make sense so leaving it there.

 

Over all OP your post was just fanboi PR nonsense and spin.

 

TORs not terrible but man if thats how far you have to grasp to make up positives, maybe this franchise actually is in trouble cause thats really sad.

 

So, anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboi eh? Your post wasn't that bad really, I disagree with most points, but once I got to the fanboi part you lost all of what little respect I had for you in the first place. Really wish people could just be civil these days.

 

Honestly, most points you make are subjective, you make it sound as though you're stating objective facts when you're clearly not.

[alkanterah]

The very fact, that this game has blind people telling others that this game is a next gen mmo, and is great makes me sick. How can you hate wow, and like this game? They are one in the same.

 

That would depend on what one would hate about WoW. Yes I love this game because it's Star Wars, I love the setting. I love the graphics. Two things I could never say about WoW. Combat mechanics the same? I just can't really say I care. That was never an issue I had with WoW, but then I only played WoW for a month back in 05' to about level 29 or something. It had the same appeal to me as My Little Pony, I just didn't get it. But hey it's cool that some do, I'm not going to judge.

[Wolfeisberg]

 

PS. The grind is still in swtor infact its worse if you ask me.

 

 

You haven't played LOTRO, have you? Want to talk about grind, try having to kill several hundred mobs, that are invisible with a small aggro range, and are limited to a small area and there aren't that many in the first place. And you need to kill them because that is how you increase your traits, which makes your character or skills better. Or having to kill several hundred elite mobs that if you can solo them at appropriate level takes a couple of minutes to beat, otherwise find a group to kill them , or come back later when you out level them.

 

Lets not talk about WoWs faction grinding.

 

IMO TOR has zero required grinding. Don't have to do the bonus missions to kill X number of something. I don't consider doing quests as a grind. Grinding to me is either what I described above with LOTRO or WoW, or having to kill hundreds of mobs till you level up with no quest so you can get to the next area or set of quests.

[Doamy]

-Post content removed- Edited May 6, 2012 by Doamy

[Rekreant]

SWTOR has broken all MMO sales records for a launch and has won numerous Game of the Year Awards. All reviews, from reputable sources, have been stellar. The only numbers I have seen released is that Star Wars sales reached over 2 Million copies.

 

Can you point me in the direction where Bioware released actual subscription numbers? Most MMO developers wont release that data to non-investors so I am curious. Im not saying they haven't released them, I'm just curious where you saw the numbers.

 

Do you understand that companies like EA pay reviewers for good reviews? This is a common business practice these days...

[Wolfeisberg]

GW was a better game than SWTOR and GW2 will smash it.

 

Best thing is no subscriptions! yay

 

I do agree that so far GW2 looks to be a better game then SWTOR, it really looks like they will be able to come through on their promises. But with that being said, since it has no subscription model, and the store is supposed to be similar to Guild Wars 1 which I never spend money in except for the expansions, I could still play both games, and still only pay for 1 subscription. So it really is hard to say if GW 2 will take any subscriptions away, when people could play both and still only pay for 1 subscription.

[Viera]

By now we all know about the numerous Game of the Year awards already won by SWTOR, and we have either read reviews, or heard on TV (like G4TV), just how awesome this game is. We also know that SWTOR has broken the record for pre-order sales and has set a bar that is darn near unreachable by most developers. We get it. The game rocks. But why? What did Bioware accomplish that has this game skyrocketing so quickly?

 

- Story Driven MMO. People are simply tired of WoW and its many clones (Rift...etc).

- Character Development. You begin your development at level 1 not at the end cap level.

- In SWTOR "The Real Game" starts at level 1. Most MMO's the real game doesnt start until end-cap.

- Immersive game play and environments.

- SWTOR killed "the Grind" that plagues so many MMO's.

- Fluid Combat with clashing Lightsabers!

- In SWTOR the leveling process is FUN and not a chore.

- Voice-Acted questing. Incredibly well done.

- Smooth Launch! Fairly unusual in this business but BW pulled it off.

- If its this good at launch, imagine SWTOR in a year! AMAZING!

 

Its mostly true. No game truly kills the grind, though. They just find creative ways of hiding it.

[Teladis]

And I'm sure it will be bug free and have a perfect launch and everyone will be happy because that's how reality works.

 

GW was still a horrible game.

 

I regret the $5.00 I spent on it.

 

If bugs was the problem with this game people would not be in a uproar. I can forgive bugs, I can't forgive being robbed.

[Wolfeisberg]

So they hated their own game so much that they completely changed everything?

 

Not really. More like they wanted to make an MMO this time, and not another CORPG (which is what the developers called it when they were developing Guild Wars 1, specifically stating it was not an MMO)

 

Plus they wanted to make an MMO that was truely innovative and different then other MMOs, and so far they look to be keeping to that promise.

[Viera]

They wanted to change from the normal? They want to take risks? I don't know something that bioware is scared of?

 

They aren't taking risks and they aren't making a change from the normal, if anything they are aligning more toward NCSoft's other Korean MMORPG's from what I've seen of the gameplay lol.

[serpentu]

Oh i have 3 toons -- all level 33+.

Try reaching 50 and making another thread like this.