Episode IV: What was the plan?

[NickeNVoi]

It was only Lucas and James Earl Jones in the ADR (Aditional Dialogue Recording)

Just FYI, as an audio engineer, ADR stands for Automatic Dialogue Recording or Automatic Dialogue Replacement (interchangeable within the industry) though this is always rather humorous to me as nothing about it is "automatic" so additional does seem more applicable.

 

other than that, loving the points being made, continue and discuss

Edited December 19, 2011 by NickeNVoi

[trimw]

There was no plan, you basically have to watch the original movies whilst blocking out the mess that the prequels caused.

[Mordrehl]

Well, if you notice in the PT, they aren't together all that often....R2D2 is with Anakin pretty much the whole time, and C3PO is with Padme from Shmi's death on (which Obi-Wan wasn't there to witness). In fact, Obi-Wan never saw C3PO until he was in the care of Padme. Plus C3PO's memory had been wiped at least once. R2D2, though, I believe he never had his mind wiped, though I could be wrong. I do think that Kenobi would likely recognize R2 though, I'm just trying to reason on the side of canon here. Maybe he was just playing dumb in order to not reveal too much to Luke, or maybe he'd been in the heat and sand for too long.

 

Ok ok but ... HOW does Lord Vader not recognize C3PO or R2D2 in Cloud City

 

I mean ... Han, Leie, Chewie and C3PO walk in on Vader

You'd think there'd be some sort of recognition ... like "I see you have my property" or something ... anything

 

After they revealed Anakin made C3PO, the fact that Vader sees C3PO on Bespin has always bugged me

Edited December 19, 2011 by Mordrehl

[jarjarloves]

Well, if you notice in the PT, they aren't together all that often....R2D2 is with Anakin pretty much the whole time, and C3PO is with Padme from Shmi's death on (which Obi-Wan wasn't there to witness). In fact, Obi-Wan never saw C3PO until he was in the care of Padme. Plus C3PO's memory had been wiped at least once. R2D2, though, I believe he never had his mind wiped, though I could be wrong. I do think that Kenobi would likely recognize R2 though, I'm just trying to reason on the side of canon here. Maybe he was just playing dumb in order to not reveal too much to Luke, or maybe he'd been in the heat and sand for too long.

 

yes C3PO does get his memory wiped but r2d2 doesn't which means r2d2 is a bit of a jerk.

 

 

Anyhow while in the movies they don't see each other much Obi Wan does talk to R2D2 a good amount in Revenge of the Sith. so they are familer with each other. Now if you include the Clone Wars tv show then Obi Wan and C3po talk a lot more.

[VoxTheHero]

Ok ok but ... HOW does Lord Vader not recognize C3PO or R2D2 in Cloud City

 

I mean ... Han, Leie, Chewie and C3PO walk in on Vader

You'd think there'd be some sort of recognition ... like "I see you have my property" or something ... anything

 

After they revealed Anakin made C3PO, the fact that Vader sees C3PO on Bespin has always bugged me

 

He actually does recognize C3-PO in Cloud City. If you read the short comic Thank The Maker, Vader finds Threepio's remains after he got blasted, reminisces briefly about rebuilding him as a child, and then orders one of his lieutenants to throw him in the trash.

[GenBelisarius]

He actually does recognize C3-PO in Cloud City. If you read the short comic Thank The Maker, Vader finds Threepio's remains after he got blasted, reminisces briefly about rebuilding him as a child, and then orders one of his lieutenants to throw him in the trash.

 

Vader doesn't need to be involved in every little thing that goes on, C3-PO got blasted apart because he ran into a bunch of stormtroopers that were hiding. Then was thrown in the trash, Vader had better things to do then worry about some protocol droid that looked like a million others in the galaxy if that was the one he made.

[Rhyltran]

Really? All individually numbered, so there was only ever 1 R2-D2, the one which fought with them on General Grievous' command ship? How could he forget that?

 

He didn't. Luke said it belonged to him. He never owned a Droid. It was Anakin's droid. That's what created the confusion. Also he never really liked nor cared for R2. This is seen in the novels and clone wars cartoons. He also always called it a "thing" when speaking to Anakin such as when he wanted him to wipe it's memory.

[kailhun]

Let's just say that Obi Wan is like Ranger One:

 

"There was a saying on Mimbar, anyone who wanted to get a straight answer out of Ranger One was to look at every reply in a mirror while hanging upside down from the ceiling."

[KyrusValo]

Well, if you notice in the PT, they aren't together all that often....R2D2 is with Anakin pretty much the whole time, and C3PO is with Padme from Shmi's death on (which Obi-Wan wasn't there to witness). In fact, Obi-Wan never saw C3PO until he was in the care of Padme. Plus C3PO's memory had been wiped at least once. R2D2, though, I believe he never had his mind wiped, though I could be wrong. I do think that Kenobi would likely recognize R2 though, I'm just trying to reason on the side of canon here. Maybe he was just playing dumb in order to not reveal too much to Luke, or maybe he'd been in the heat and sand for too long.

 

Take into account The Clone Wars TV series and Obi-Wan should never have any reason to forget R2 OR C-3PO. The only way he could have forgotten them is if they were just random throw-aways. But then it wouldn't have been much of a series without our favorite droids

[Wargames]

In anticipation I find myself rewatching the trilogy and seeing things I never really picked up on before, especially with the prequels *ptooey* behind them now. Many of the exchanges don't make sense anymore but I'm not as concerned about that. My question to you is, What was the plan the Yoda and Obi Wan were working on? It honestly seems to show the ineptitude that lead to the downfall of the Jedi. Here's how I see it;

 

1) Obi Wan gives this force sensitive child over to two of the only other people in the galaxy that knew Anakin Skywalker, on his home planet, living right next door to grave of the mother whose death began the journey down the Dark Side. Of course Vader wouldn't get sentimental at any point in the next 20 years, right?

 

2) Obi Wan gives Leia to Bael Organa, the man Anakin thought was having an affair with his dead wife. Of course Vader wouldn't get unnecessarily vengeful in the next 20 years, right?

 

3) 20 years go by, Obi Wan stays close enough to know that Luke is a good pilot but never chooses to make himself known and begin his training at a young age for full indoctrination. Training Anakin at an older age than the rest of his Padawan classmates worked out so well last time, right?

 

4) Yoda has apparently been keeping an eye on Luke from afar as well, or at least his state of being (Never his mind on where he was...) Yet, there was never a directive to influence this behavior?

 

These are just some of the questions that arise. If the twins truly were the last hope of the Jedi, why was it fate and not the last remaining Jedi that made them what they were? With this kind of forethought and planning it's no wonder they were wiped out by Order 66. It almost seems to me that Yoda's plan was to allow the Jedi to end with Obi Wan and him and the Sith to die with the Emperor and Vader but Luke needing to save his sister ruined everything and they made the rest up on the fly.

 

So, let me have it. Am I really that far off the mark or do these things get to you too?

 

1) It's actually Qui-Gon's idea to place Luke with the Lars family. The whole point of Vader's personality is that he hates himself and everything he became, and so he does everything he can to erase Anakin's past and does not want to relive it. Vader would never return "home" as he's too afraid to face his own demons. Owen tries to keep Luke living a simple life that way he can avoid any sort of major attention that may cause suspicion within the Empire.

 

2) As other people have stated, Anakin never suspected Padme to be having an affair with Padme. Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that for the same reasons stated above, Vader would keep his distance from Bail and his family. Hanging out and getting to know the family of your dead wife's friends while you're trying to conceal your true identity from the entire galaxy is just a bad idea.

 

3) Obi-Wan was around in the early years of Luke's life and was a regular visitor the the Lars home. He decided it was too risky to be around them though because if the Empire ever found out he was still alive, he didn't want to have any association to the Lars'. This is also why he changes his name from Obi-Wan to Ben, to help hide his identity.

 

4) Like someone else said, Yoda can't make his location known. He's very powerful in the Force. If he were to use it in any major way, it could easily be sensed by the Emperor or Vader. There is also a large matter of fate and destiny to figure in too. Obi-Wan and Yoda can't rush the master plan of Luke becoming a Jedi. They waited 20 years for fate to bring him to them. Obi-Wan knew the time had come once the droids ended up in his possession.

 

And just some other points that other people commented about...

 

Obi-Wan never once denied that he knew R2. He stated, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid...", which he never did own him. He didn't lie to Luke, he just didn't feel it was time to tell him everything yet. R2's memory was never wiped, which is how he knew exactly who he was looking for.

 

Vader does remember 3PO. There's a very cool scene in a comic of him holding 3PO's head in Cloud City thinking back to when he built him. But, as stated, Vader hates Anakin and spends every waking moment trying to bury his past deep inside himself.

[GhostRiderLSOV]

If Obi-Wan had told Luke that he had known R2 for a long time, wouldn't that make him suspicious and ask R2 about what Obi-Wan and his father were doing?

 

Maybe that's one other reason that Obi-Wan doesn't say much about R2.