Cappn Chat: Commando PvP

[Cappn]

The purpose of this thread is to provide decent and understandable feedback and put it up to discussion. I've played the Commando quite a bit now, while I'm not level cap, or the best Commando that has ever graced the game. I will try to provide feedback from experiance in Ranged PvP.

 

I've focused my play into both the Assualt Specialst and Gunnery trees. I have not tried Combat medic, so I cannot provide viable feedback on it.

 

Current Valor level: 21

Level: 38

 

I'll start off with some basic things I've noticed.

 

THE COMMANDO

 

 

It's one of.. "Those"... classes.

 

By that I mean the Commando is one of those classes that is currently confused on what it wants to be. It has the potential to be a very "PvP Utility" class by its playstyle, your a ranged DPS with a damage focus. You also have a healing route, making the Commando an eye catcher for PvP. However, the playstyle of Commando naturally leans more towards a "Kiting" class as all ranged classes are; you lack solid tools to do so.

 

Kiting is not a gamble, it is a calculated move that requires the player to actively move and counter his attacker. His ability choice and path of movement will determine if he is successful in killing his target. However the Commando Advanced Class kiting is just that, its a gamble and not a reliable form of self defense. I will go more into this as I review both Gunnery and Assualt Specialist.

 

SPECS

 

GUNNERY

 

Gunnery brings the pain and is more likely your best choice for PvP currently. The combination of its armor crushing debuffs and powerful blasts will put a hurt on any who stand infront of your cannon. Which is the idea behind it. It is unfortunate though that Gunnery is quite the easy target for a Melee class. I understand the term "Glass Cannon" is often pinned to Gunnery, but its good damage (I say good, it isn't extremely good)doesn't compensate well with its poor defense capabilities.

 

Basic Defenses:

 

Your equipped mainly with knockbacks, which is considered your "Primary Defense" by looking at your tree and with a reduced cooldown on "Concussive Round" which knocks a target silly for a minute.

 

I don't count the slow that can be talented with Full-Auto as a defense. It can be so easily countered and often useful only on targets not focusing on you.

 

Knockbacks do little in the small picture (Your basic defense) but are quite good in the big picture (Warzones), thus we have the issue. What exactly do you do to defend yourself? The trick is that you don't, your knockbacks, much like your Full-Auto snare, only delay the soon be thrashing your about to recieve and can be easily countered. If Concussive Round fails to successfuly stop your target (By this point you've probaly taken heavy damage from casting it.) you will die.

 

Terrian also factors in, espically in Huttball where the multiple levels of the warzone make Gunnery into a solid mobile turrent. Useing the the changeing heights to your advantage. I do not believe however that terrian should be taken into account when balanceing a class.

 

Suggestion

 

Tinkering with Gunnery will be tricky. It won't take much to turn the good damage of Gunnery into obliterateing if changes are done overboard on Gunnery's survivability. However I do stress that something must be done to, at a bare minimum, defend yourself from oncoming melee attacks.

 

A attaching a snare to your knockbacks would be useful, no more than 7 seconds. The length of the snare would be dependant on how long the cooldown on your knockback. The shortest for example would your standard talented stockstrike, knocks them back several feet and with a 4 second snare. This would give the Gunnery spec'd Commando time to gain some distance between himself and his target, proper application of his knockbacks and snares in countering anti-range abilities (Such as Force-Charge) would decide if he would survive the encounter.

 

 

ASSUALT SPECIALIST

 

Assualt Specialist screams PVP, the tree is built for kiting due to talent of "Sweltering Heat" and a focus on instant damage abilities. However that is also its largest issue. Sweltering Heat only lasts for 2 seconds, combine this with a select few abilities that actually apply the debuff and it turns kiting into a frustrateing gamble of "Keep away".

 

Your primary ability to use will be "Hammer Shot", in order to keep sweltering heat up during kitings your rotation is as follows....

 

"1111111111111111111111111111111111111"

 

If you attempt to ease off this path by firing your High Impact bolt, which is your primary damage dealing ability of the tree OR attempting place another DoT by applying Incendiary Round. You will lose the Sweltering Heat Debuff, you will be run down very quickly due to your Global cooldown. The damage of Assualt Specialist is also quite lackluster. Granted it should not be as devastateing as Gunnery but it should be alarming to have a Assualt Specialist targeting you, if not moderately annoying due to its strong Damage over time affects.

 

Suggestions

 

The key in Assualt Specialist, while balanceing PvP is never simple would be to increase the time of Sweltering Heats affect from 2 seconds to possibly 5. This would grant the player enough time to use other abilities while kiting his foe.

 

A damage increase would be nominal, focusing primarily on the burning effects of Incendiary Round or Plasma Cell. The true pain of AS would be its utility and DoTs, surviveing longer than your foe to carry on the an unrelenting Assualt.

 

 

 

Feel free to discuss, Agree with me, or tell me I'm plain wrong. Just keep it civil.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Cappn

[Barakus]

Well I haven't played Assault spec very much, I agree with your thoughts about Gunnery and it's need for additional kiting tools. I'm level 43 valor 31 at the moment and I'm having a pretty difficult time dealing with well played melee characters. I can usually get them off of me with concussion charge or cryo but at that point my damage goes out the window and I'm forced to try and finish them off with hammer shot spam and instant casts.

[Cappn]

I agree.

 

 

It's a terrible thing to say, but I honestly believe I may have wasted time leveling the class. It's in just abysmal shape really.

[Kokkos]

Gunnery is a kiting class without a slow (yes i have the slow on Full Auto, you cant kite while standing still tho). So i have stopped kiting and try to position myself better so i can turret instead. Only real kiting is waiting for the retarded warriors to use leap to get to me only to get knocked back. then i run while i use my instant attacks and have to turret again.

Good use of our two CC as well as spamming aoe knockback to keep people of you and your friends, stop capping etc is the most efficient way to play imo.

 

i REALLY hate that we dont have a slow tho..

[Secured]

I started my Commando because i thought i wanted to play a Healer and i didnt really look into the Damage Capabilitys. Then i wanted to try it anyways and now i cant understand why anyone is confused of what the Commandos role is.

ITS DAMAGE!!! MASSIVE, MASSIVE DAMAGEEE!!

 

I think that Gunnery is the way to go. Assault may seem more PvPish, but its not. The Damage is too low and too slow. Gunnery on the other hand may be the strongest Build in the game if you are able to play outside of Full Retard Mode.

 

If you look closer, the most necessary Tools for PvP are in the Gunnery Tree:

-Concussive Force: forget the Knockback on Stockstrike, it's only fun to push opponents into the fire in huttball. The Real Deal here is the 4 Meters more on Concussion Charge. This really makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

-Tenacious Defense: Reduction on the most needed skill in PvP, hell yeah! (its Tenacity btw XD)

-Reserve Round: Dont be afraid to use Concussive Round on your Target! It may heal it up, but it gives you time to re-position (and THINK!). Dont overestimate the Heal, you will bring it down again if you just Grav their *** right after you stunned them.

So its good for: reposition, waiting for cooldowns, disrupting skills (though CR has a cast time, you have to be lucky). The most important thing though is that you use it so that they use their anti-cc-skill to get out of it just that you can Cryo them afterwards and get the full stun duration an free damage. If you fight 2 Opponents, do it the other way round. Cryo First and let them get out of it and than CR for 1 less opponent to worry about.You will win fights with this knowledge!

 

 

This is how i play my Commando:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800zcZMIkrRrdkkfzZc.1

 

A few explanations:

1 point in Cover Fire

You dont need more than 1 point, because it triggers per shot, not per Full Auto usage. So you will at least slow them for about 3-4 Seconds. The 1st Point is worth extremely much more than the 2nd point spent on this, so skip the 2nd.

Concussive Force and Kolto Recharge

i generally like Talents that give you Options more than pure stat improvements that you dont really notice during a fight anyway (i dont mean that 9% more aim is a bad thing though XD).

Cell Capacitator

Not only 1 point, because i had none left, but because i think that its not really that much needed. Throw in a Hammershot every 3 Attacks (you need to do this anyway because you want to reposition) and you will stay at over 70% Cells most of the time. So i use Recharge Cells only if i overcommited to a kill and the fight goes longer than expected. But i dont want to spend 2 points into something that i could've avoided if i wasnt stupid XD

 

 

 

It only leaves me to say, that playing a Gunnery Commando effectively is haaaard.

You dont just Grav, Full Auto, Grav, Grav+HiB, Grav+Demo. Don't get too attached to the concept of a SKILL ROTATION. PvP is PvP, because you cant just mindlessly use roations by default.

 

You have to use practically all your skills, so the right Keybindings is probably the most important thing

I myself use: [1,...,6], [alt+1,...,6], [ctrl+1,...,6], [F1,...,F6], [shift+1,...,4] and some special Keybinds such as § for Nades, X for Huttball throwing and alt+F4 for instant retreat to Carrick Sation.

I dont use 7,8,9,0,',^ because you would need to reposition your hand on your keyboard and thats unprecise and slow.

 

If you practice, you will notice...

...when you can throw in a Nade or a Stockstrike

...when you want to HiB first and then Demo or vice versa

...If you have time for a Mortar Volley

...if you stun your enemy or their Companion in openPvP

...when to use Tenacity

...when to heal yourself (oh yeah, use STIMS!!!!)

and so forth

Edited January 4, 2012 by Secured

[LordBanjax]

I think Secured is dead on.

 

PvP can be frustrating at times, especially when you get a melee on you and two blinks of an eye later you're taking a dirt nap. It can be frustrating. That said, I felt pretty weak in my teens, and while i'm just lvl 24, 15 valor, i feel like I'm starting to become a bit of a power house in the warzones. Especially huttball; nothing quite like stockstrike/bumping someone into a flame and tossing a freeze grenade on them. I get those quite a bit b/c I'm constantly positioning myself on the upper rafters to receive the ball... it's also a good place to "snipe".

 

Anyways, i do pretty well on the other maps as well, just feel like I shine @huttball. But, one of the last things I'll leave ya with is pay attn to the level of the opponent you're fighting. I try to toss out all results of opponents that have a lot of levels on me, especially lvl 50s. I try to pay more attention to the results of skirmishes I have with similarly lvl'd enemies. And so far, I'm doing pretty well in that department.

[Secured]

I wanted to add something for all the Commandos that havent reached max level:

Commando gets exponentially stronger. You need your full arsenal of Skills and Talents (and Gear) to reach full potential, more so than probably any other class.

[Dashall]

I think we have a very solid class with both an excellent heal spec, powerful burst spec and fairly solid kiting spec. We do need some tweaks certainly, and when the general delay issues on skills like Mortar Volley and FA are addressed that will help.

 

Huttball I feel like we have a support roll. Near zero mobility, no force leaps or speed, not much CC or CC breakers we're best suited to heal the carrier, pass, and/or get the high ground to pick off opponents.

 

The other two WZ's we can really shine. With proper positioning and support I can devastate opponents on Alderaan or Voidstar. You wont be planting a bomb on VS if I am alive and in range.

 

Gunnery with Grav, Demo Round, HIB, tech override ... it's pretty beast imo. BTW, speaking of burst, I'm a sad panda at how explosive round scales. The tooltip on torhead says it does more than Grav round but in practice that doesnt seem to be the case. Anyone agree?

 

I have not fully specced Combat Medic yet since I'm still 49 and wanted to level with Gunnery, but it seems extremely potent.

 

Also please dont forget to use ALL your relevant skills! Adrenaline rush, Field Aid! (so good), Shields, knockbacks, stealth scan, cryo, tenacity, recharge cells, reserve powercell, tech override... so much good stuff.

 

 

A attaching a snare to your knockbacks would be useful, no more than 7 seconds. The length of the snare would be dependant on how long the cooldown on your knockback. The shortest for example would your standard talented stockstrike, knocks them back several feet and with a 4 second snare. This would give the Gunnery spec'd Commando time to gain some distance between himself and his target, proper application of his knockbacks and snares in countering anti-range abilities (Such as Force-Charge) would decide if he would survive the encounter.

 

 

Well Concussion Charge has a 4 sec snare component, wouldnt mind talented Stock Strike having the same. Although I feel like there are already too many snares in the game bleh.

[Izini]

I started my Commando because i thought i wanted to play a Healer and i didnt really look into the Damage Capabilitys. Then i wanted to try it anyways and now i cant understand why anyone is confused of what the Commandos role is.

ITS DAMAGE!!! MASSIVE, MASSIVE DAMAGEEE!!

 

I think that Gunnery is the way to go. Assault may seem more PvPish, but its not. The Damage is too low and too slow. Gunnery on the other hand may be the strongest Build in the game if you are able to play outside of Full Retard Mode.

 

If you look closer, the most necessary Tools for PvP are in the Gunnery Tree:

-Concussive Force: forget the Knockback on Stockstrike, it's only fun to push opponents into the fire in huttball. The Real Deal here is the 4 Meters more on Concussion Charge. This really makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

-Tenacious Defense: Reduction on the most needed skill in PvP, hell yeah! (its Tenacity btw XD)

-Reserve Round: Dont be afraid to use Concussive Round on your Target! It may heal it up, but it gives you time to re-position (and THINK!). Dont overestimate the Heal, you will bring it down again if you just Grav their *** right after you stunned them.

So its good for: reposition, waiting for cooldowns, disrupting skills (though CR has a cast time, you have to be lucky). The most important thing though is that you use it so that they use their anti-cc-skill to get out of it just that you can Cryo them afterwards and get the full stun duration an free damage. If you fight 2 Opponents, do it the other way round. Cryo First and let them get out of it and than CR for 1 less opponent to worry about.You will win fights with this knowledge!

 

 

This is how i play my Commando:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800zcZMIkrRrdkkfzZc.1

 

A few explanations:

1 point in Cover Fire

You dont need more than 1 point, because it triggers per shot, not per Full Auto usage. So you will at least slow them for about 3-4 Seconds. The 1st Point is worth extremely much more than the 2nd point spent on this, so skip the 2nd.

Concussive Force and Kolto Recharge

i generally like Talents that give you Options more than pure stat improvements that you dont really notice during a fight anyway (i dont mean that 9% more aim is a bad thing though XD).

Cell Capacitator

Not only 1 point, because i had none left, but because i think that its not really that much needed. Throw in a Hammershot every 3 Attacks (you need to do this anyway because you want to reposition) and you will stay at over 70% Cells most of the time. So i use Recharge Cells only if i overcommited to a kill and the fight goes longer than expected. But i dont want to spend 2 points into something that i could've avoided if i wasnt stupid XD

 

 

 

It only leaves me to say, that playing a Gunnery Commando effectively is haaaard.

You dont just Grav, Full Auto, Grav, Grav+HiB, Grav+Demo. Don't get too attached to the concept of a SKILL ROTATION. PvP is PvP, because you cant just mindlessly use roations by default.

 

You have to use practically all your skills, so the right Keybindings is probably the most important thing

I myself use: [1,...,6], [alt+1,...,6], [ctrl+1,...,6], [F1,...,F6], [shift+1,...,4] and some special Keybinds such as § for Nades, X for Huttball throwing and alt+F4 for instant retreat to Carrick Sation.

I dont use 7,8,9,0,',^ because you would need to reposition your hand on your keyboard and thats unprecise and slow.

 

If you practice, you will notice...

...when you can throw in a Nade or a Stockstrike

...when you want to HiB first and then Demo or vice versa

...If you have time for a Mortar Volley

...if you stun your enemy or their Companion in openPvP

...when to use Tenacity

...when to heal yourself (oh yeah, use STIMS!!!!)

and so forth

 

THIS IS THE TRUTH! OP doesn't know the class very well and is mistaken. I just started a Commando for PvP dps because I realized that it is very skill based, in the right hands is extremely powerful.

[Secured]

I've just realized that Stockstrike is absolutely genious with the knockback. Not for the Knockback part, but because the knockback also interrupts the target (yea i need to finish my last semester at the obvious university to get that). One more trick to use

 

Oh and i absolutely didnt want to bash on the guy who opened this Thread, i consider myself far away from having mastered this class, just because its so versitale that its somewhat overwhelming and this may make the class look boring, but its completely the other way round.

 

Oh yeah, and i wanted to put my best combo out there: Concussive Charge into PC Crash!

(it has happened A LOT that my PC crashed after i used concussive charge and the camera was more zoomed in than usual, because i was near a wall or something).

Edited January 4, 2012 by Secured

[LordKivlov]

Honestly, if you want massive damage, go play a guardian. They out damage us in PvP in full champion gear because they're not subject to being interupted like we are. If you want good, solid damage with some utility on the side, then you play the commando. Edited January 4, 2012 by LordKivlov

[Cappn]

Heres an update guys, I went ahead and hit fourty and upgraded my gear to its level. Now that I have Demolition Round, Gunnerys damage does in many cases flatten an enemy with a satisfying splat. While I do still believe Gunnery does need some sort of minor defensive upgrades, it still remains a head and shoulders above Assualt Specialist.

[Karanis]

At L50 we have no issues, aside from delayed animations (which is a bug) and there are several viable specs you can use. Full Gunnery, Full Assault and hybrid Gunnery/CM are all very useful in PvP. Commando in full Champions is a wrecking ball in any spec you choose to play.

[Swijr]

At L50 we have no issues, aside from delayed animations (which is a bug) and there are several viable specs you can use. Full Gunnery, Full Assault and hybrid Gunnery/CM are all very useful in PvP. Commando in full Champions is a wrecking ball in any spec you choose to play.

 

^ This

 

At 40 I have Assault maxed and with Incendiary round, plastique and the other "on the run" shots (hammer and impact) I'm kiting the points very well. I plan to do either a 3/7/31 or 0/10/31 build for end game. I'll have to see how they pan out. While I'm not a DPS monster (because I'm not trying to be honest) I am a flag and bomb interrupter to the max. And delaying the capture of points wins matches honestly.

 

Now, in an open PVP area, it'll probably be a different story. But I'm happy with my slows and stuns and think both Gunnery and Assault maximize the class for all environments (and it's just a personal pref at end game).

 

However, I could be wrong.

 

 

Swijr

[mdurrettuk]

There are strengths and weaknesses to both specs. Play whatever your playstyle lends to. I enjoy Assault spec more, but that is just me and it doesn't mean one is better than the other. Too many of either means your warzone is going to fail, and too few of either role (commando or otherwise) doesn't help. There is more than straight burst damage to PvP. Snares, stuns, heals, DoTs and being a general pain in the asteroid are all valuable in warzones and elsewhere. Edited January 6, 2012 by mdurrettuk