Recent actions against some customer accounts

[humpacactus]

So?? Bioware is wrong for not making it impossible for people to break the rules??

 

Hardly!!

 

Bioware has done nothing wrong.. If you can't live by the rules, then you will be punished.. Welcome to life..

 

/rollseyes

 

 

It has never been "rule breaking" in any other MMO in history.

[dashmatrix]

one rapidly respawning mob of lvl50 at the shuttle pad on illium would curb that. Either that or PvP flag the container areas and let the lvl 50 players enforce camping restrictions

I went to illium at lvl 32 just to check out how many LVL 50's were around, see if I could get some kind soul to give me some sage advice... yeah that didn't work out too well.

[Talryn]

It's poor planning, just like all of the other bugs.

 

i.e.

Why should I crash to desktop when exiting certain flashpoints? (Queue Testing Feature?!?)

Why should my companions tool bar randomly reset when I switch toons?

Why do I have four crafting options when I log in alternate character?

Why is the crafting system easily replaced with anything dropped or pvp farmed?

Why would you put level 10 vs level 50 champion players in the same pvp match?

Why would you let people pull enemy's into the spawn zone and let the game instant kill them?

Why don't you have the ability to report pvp idlers?

Why do you have 8 advanced classes, but only 4 class quest lines?

Why don't heroic mode dungeons have the loot that is expected?

 

 

Why would you have a level 50 chest that instant spawns, which requires no skills to open other than clicking on it?

 

 

I could list out more, but it's probably not worth the effort. Since, I'm pretty sure all of them were reported during beta phase.

[Lyren_Sunriders]

what is the challenge of taking you level 1 character to the fleet to pick up the gathering professions. its not intended for you to do so. so they can now suspend you for it if they want. or going back to a low level planet to farm mats since farming is now a suspendable offence. that is the slippery slope that some fear can be caused by these type of rules.

 

Have you ever try to do that? I mean i never tried it and I didn't think it was possible because you need a shuttle pass for leaving the starting planet, right?

[monegames]

Have you ever try to do that? I mean i never tried it and I didn't think it was possible because you need a shuttle pass for leaving the starting planet, right?

 

yep did it on all my characters just have to go to the shuttle also gets you to about level 4 by doing the crew skill quest and getting the codex entries for all the crew skills.

[uruz]

Bioware obviously has the data to back up their claims - which NONE of us have access to. Reminds me of when devs banned smugglers in SWG for knowingly using an exploit during slicing and then cried on the forums wondering what they did wrong.

 

Obviously - if you get a warning, and you ignore it - then you have nobody to blame but yourself if you are banned.

 

What I find interesting is how come this "exploit" wasn't "found" during beta when they asked. Perhaps it's one of those dirty little secrets that a only a few players knew about and kept it a secret until the word was out.

 

It's good to see they didn't just do a blanket banning - specific accounts were banned for credit farming - they have the ability to track this data.

 

Honestly - unless you meet the minimum level requirements for a planet - you have no reason to be there.

[XanderUK]

Bioware obviously has the data to back up their claims - which NONE of us have access to. Reminds me of when devs banned smugglers in SWG for knowingly using an exploit during slicing and then cried on the forums wondering what they did wrong.

 

Obviously - if you get a warning, and you ignore it - then you have nobody to blame but yourself if you are banned.

 

What I find interesting is how come this "exploit" wasn't "found" during beta when they asked. Perhaps it's one of those dirty little secrets that a only a few players knew about and kept it a secret until the word was out.

 

It's good to see they didn't just do a blanket banning - specific accounts were banned for credit farming - they have the ability to track this data.

 

Honestly - unless you meet the minimum level requirements for a planet - you have no reason to be there.

 

Pretty much sums up how I feel about all this

[makis_gloth]

yeap, I 'm so bored I 've read almost all the posts here and I have to say a big THANK YOU to most of the posters because you 're making me feel so smart with your poor reading/understanding skills I still can't believe how few people actually understood what has happened....

It was very entertaining seeing people raging about "bw will ban you if you farm chests/mobs!!!!" and fanboyz thinking that they back up bw's decision saying that spending hours farming money should get you a ban!

I even liked it more when out of a sudden slicing was brought into this thread, hillarious!

my award for the best comment goes to the guy (sorry man, don't remember your nick) who said that he reports everyone he sees camping a chest! I literally felt sorry for the poor guys at swtor support that have to read those reports.

 

And just to make sure that one of the few people that has this thing right gets read more, here is a quote:

 

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them.

 

Huge argument because the BW rep was imprecise in his wording and now people are up in arms

 

 

So.

 

Will I be banned for sending credits to my guildy / alt? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were given warnings for using an exploit to rapidly loot chests , more frequently than they should, and selling the credits. That has nothing at all to do with you sending cash.

 

Will I be banned for grinding credits in a level appropriate area? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were in a level inappropriate area.

 

Will I be banned for looting chests repeatedly? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were not looting repeatedly, no matter how many times some people in this thread want to keep rehashing that language. I reiterate, they were using an exploit to loot the chest every 20 or 30 seconds. They did so knowing it was an exploit and not normal behavior.

 

Will I be banned for farming chests on Ilum if I am not level 50? - This is not why they were given warnings. If you are clever enough to get to the boxes without dying and can loot them, great. When you are seeing crap like packs of level 10s escorted by high level characters who then AFK for hours , that is an exploit.

 

Will I be banned for <insert random garbage here> - This is not why they were given warnings.

 

 

Reading all 80+ pages of this trainwreck has literally reduced me to the point of ignoring several dozen people just so I never, ever have to listen to their twisted idea of logic or textual interpretation again. This is not difficult. It's not a moral issue. It's not "your right" or anything else.

 

If you use a blatant exploit that requires you to deliberately subvert multiple elements of gameplay for financial gain you will get banned. It's not like "I didn't know". Again, when there are whole packs of these botting farmers out there, you will also lose your cool.

 

 

The people defending them are using the excuse "The rep's language is unclear! I just want to make sure I won't get banned for x", where X has exactly zero to do with the act in question. Some people have (rather uncivily) suggested these people are messed up in some way, which I disagree with.

 

They are simply being contrary because they got caught, or they feel they should have the right to violate the rules. Period. The BW rep clearly stated at one point, after a long listing of normal actions, that the perps "did nothing even close to that". And yet people continue to selectively read what they want to read.

 

(btw, we don't know if they were multiboxing or just coordinated with an opposite faction friend - although for doing this systematically one can assume they multiboxed 2 low level chars of opposite factions - but it doesn't really matters now does it?)

[Daisai]

The players that used smart in-game mechanics (always liked that one ) and went to ilum at low lvl to loot some containers got a warning and/or temp. suspended.

Now if they do it again and again they get banned.

So then they got banned for going to a planet looting containers in other words playing the game.

[Yorp]

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

 

As it stands Stephen Reids directly explains what he means by exploit.

 

He directly states they had been exploiting the game by "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

 

AKA Excessive farming - not botting, not duping items, not selling gold, just excessive farming.

 

To clarify "exploit" even further, Stephen Reid explains that :

 

"They also warned and temporarily suspended - but did not ban - a smaller number of accounts for activities on Ilum that were decided to be game exploits."

 

Emphasis on "decide to be game exploits." They decided that "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..." was an exploit.

 

They decided excessive looting and farming was an exploit. There is nothing more to say this is exactly from the mouth of Stephen Reid.

 

With only those paragraphs to go off of there is really nothing more to discuss. It's clear what Stephen Reid said in the OP and it's flat out ridiculous.

 

Can people really not get over the fact that maybe Bioware screwed up here?

 

Edit: Also, once again, this in no way hurts me as a player as I don't really farm excessively. I can surely sympathize with the players who do however.

 

I agree. I should be able safely farm for how much time I want.

 

I did farm space one space mission for like 20+ hours total in 2-3 days. That was some excessive farming. Insane credits (70k per hour). Never got warning for that. But when I'm doing it on planets with slight change (looting boxes instead of instant money from missions) it's now bad?

 

Yeah, ban bots and gold sellers. I totally agree. However, when you want to farm 16 hours per day, you should be able to without fear to get a warning.

 

Now I don't farm anymore. It's boring. I did it to boost my crafting alt. But I want legal farmers in a game. They are lowering price of materials and making life easier for us, crafters. Item enhancements / Spaceship upgrades anyone? My lvl 10 can craft it just for 400-500% profit. Is this exploit too? No, just supply and demand

Edited January 4, 2012 by Yorp

[makis_gloth]

The players that used smart in-game mechanics (always liked that one ) and went to ilum at low lvl to loot some containers got a warning and/or temp. suspended.

Now if they do it again and again they get banned.

So then they got banned for going to a planet looting containers in other words playing the game.

 

NO! After a million replies you still don't get it do you? I 'll try caps:

 

YOU CAN GO TO ILUM AT WHATEVER LEVEL YOU WANT/CAN.

YOU CAN GO TO ILUM AND FARM CHESTS ALL DAY AND NIGHT IF YOU WANT.

 

But... when the faction controlling ilum changes, chests respawn automatically - not at the default respawn timer. If you use different faction characters to ABUSE that game mechanic to instantly respawn chests you will get a warning and/or ban.

[Yorp]

NO! After a million replies you still don't get it do you? I 'll try caps:

 

YOU CAN GO TO ILUM AT WHATEVER LEVEL YOU WANT/CAN.

YOU CAN GO TO ILUM AND FARM CHESTS ALL DAY AND NIGHT IF YOU WANT.

 

But... when the faction controlling ilum changes, chests respawn automatically - not at the default respawn timer. If you use different faction characters to ABUSE that game mechanic to instantly respawn chests you will get a warning and/or ban.

 

You cannot! I got a warning for 5-6 hours farming. I did completed objective once or twice just for a cutscene, which is really great btw. I was traveling all around PvP zone there. I was not flipping control of area repeatedly. How could I? Don't have 2nd account, or any other character on other side. I wasn't at one place looting same container repeatedly with insta spawn. I did nothing wrong.

 

Yet, I was warned.

[makis_gloth]

You cannot! I got a warning for 5-6 hours farming. I did completed objective once or twice just for a cutscene, which is really great btw. I was traveling all around PvP zone there. I was not flipping control of area repeatedly. How could I? Don't have 2nd account, or any other character on other side. I wasn't at one place looting same container repeatedly with insta spawn. I did nothing wrong.

 

Yet, I was warned.

 

my guess is because of the abuse that area was getting and you were flagged as a possible (hence the warning, not temp-or not- ban) gold farmer. Don't forget, we are just data at some screen Don't worry, when they fix it you can go back into farming mode

Edited January 4, 2012 by makis_gloth

[MR_JU]

No not so be it. You cannot sit and camp a location taking all the loot and leaving nothing for everyone else. Especially if you arent even high enough level to be there to begin with. It isnt a slippery slope its very cut and dry. Don't try to take everything for yourself and you wont have these problems. If Bioware wants to make rules is that not their right as the owner of the game? This is a welcome to most people who just want to play and not camp the loot boxes so noone else can get them. I applaud Bioware for it.

 

 

I agree. I am a casual player who likes to have good gear. I get sick and tired of people trying to exploit and monopolize items that end up driving up prices in an Auction House. If an item is worth 5000 credits I shouldn't have to pay 500 000 credits becuase some stooge gets his jollies from farming an area 24/7 to sell credits in real life. Get a real job if you need money.

 

I myself have reported numerous RMT spammers in game to the Support team because I would hate to see a game with some nice game play like this ( bar the bugs because it is still a young game) get ruined by RMT practices.

[makis_gloth]

I agree. I am a casual player who likes to have good gear. I get sick and tired of people trying to exploit and monopolize items that end up driving up prices in an Auction House. If an item is worth 5000 credits I shouldn't have to pay 500 000 credits becuase some stooge gets his jollies from farming an area 24/7 to sell credits in real life. Get a real job if you need money.

 

I myself have reported numerous RMT spammers in game to the Support team because I would hate to see a game with some nice game play like this ( bar the bugs because it is still a young game) get ruined by RMT practices.

 

 

Please dont confuse gold farmers (=people that sell in game money for real world money) with people that like the AH/farming/money side of mmo's. The first should be banned, the second should not...

[FortressofRain]

All I'm going to say is that this is a game. It was never intended to be a free economy. It was never intended to be a way for people to make money in real life. It was intended for fun, and for entertainment.

 

Really there is a common sense rule everyone should know: if you have ask you probably shouldn't do it. This logic and internal motivator exists in every person for a reason, because deep down your subconscious fears your doing something wrong.

 

And if you have to argue against it, you gotta ask yourself why?

 

1) First cause you probably didn't read the thread to start

2) You probably selectively picked out what you wanted to read to justify your your complaining

3) You probably aren't playing the game as intended

 

Its a game, get over it. Play a little, have fun, turn it off and have a life.

 

Bioware is my favorite company for a reason. I hate spam from random people offering to sell me gold. I report it. I hope they get banned. Its annoying.

 

If you want to exploit the game, or if you disagree with the way Bioware is running the game or their customer service, you can always go play WoW. Its your choice and your freedom to not play. Unfortunately, just like with politics, the loudest voice will always be the dissenting option.

 

Bioware obviously has the data to back up their claims - which NONE of us have access to.

 

Yep and they shouldn't have to. They should be able to ban whoever they want whenever they want. Its their product. Just like a recall. You buy it, they can call it back. You abuse your car they government takes your licence and sometimes your car. You break the law, you go to jail. No one says you gotta agree with it, but it's going to happen anyway. Its called life.

 

And you want to argue: "well I might care if it was me being banned"...nope I wouldn't. First cause I've never been banned I cause I don't do stupid things. Second, because there are so many other more important things in my life, like spending time with my girlfriend, family, my education and work.

 

For every idiot that threatens to stop playing a game, a decent person will probably start playing, because lets face it, the real gaming generation is 25-45 years old and don't play with teenagers or anyone who is immature anyways. Less idiots = more fun for me.

 

So remember, if you find yourself asking "should I do this" or "am I allowed to do this"? Then prepare to have an epiphany! For you just discovered what your conscience is!

Edited January 4, 2012 by FortressofRain

[Debiru]

-@Radiatonia

-@JeramieCrowe

-@Zones

 

I have read ALL the posts since page one (incl the OP lol) and are atm at page 57, i can not thank you three specialy, becouse you`re posts are just so incredible well articulated and founded, that i get so mad evertime some of this, lets call them mouthbreathers, refuses to either read it properly or just cherry pick something and convalute it in they`re mind and then post absolute garbage.

 

 

Again, i am envious how well you perfrom here, i keep thinking the same things to my self, and every time itri to post that, betwene my mind dyslexcia and AD\HD, it get warped and never gets as good a post or as articulate as you three seam to be.

 

Keep up the good work, you give me hope yet as for when i as a officer in my guild need to reqruit player for our raids soon.

 

Yet again, thank you deeply.

[ratiugrigoreleon]

Am I allowed to use the shared AH on Nar Shadda to send money from my lvl 50 rep to my new Imperial toon by Overpricing the item?

[Kitsunami]

Frankly i dont feel bioware has the right idea on this one.

 

Excessive farming is bad? No. Excessive farming is what many, many seasoned mmo players will do to get money and progress in any mmo.

 

Everquest comes to mind, those loyal players who would camp one boss spawn for possibly DAYS to get the reward and then sell it for huge income.

 

I have to say bioware, it MY game time. If i want to spend days waiting on a boss, or a chest, or something i found and loot it, is that not my choice? How can you say you are going to penalise players for deciding to have the patience to sit and make money. Whats that, you want them to make money your way, not the way they choose to? That doesn't work in the real world and it certainly wont work here.

 

Especially when you charge ridiculous amounts of credits for everything. Speederbikes? 40k level 1. Crafting professions? Starting to hit 400-500 credits a recipe. Training each level? Hitting 5k+ to train one skill.

 

Are we supposed to priorotise, and not craft, or not train skills...sacrificing gameplay?

 

Under that definition of farming given, sitting and doing space combat over and over for days on end to get credits is bad. As is sitting and crafting at a crafting node thats providing you materials, or at a chest you found that is giving you breakable down loot.

 

I dont see how bioware can expect to win this one. Its always been a mmo tradition that to make money, people will find something to camp. Its either a boss that drops loot for money, or large amounts of money, or its a chest/crafting node. Im really dissapointed that bioware is going down that path with suspensions and all that.

 

I really hope this is isolated to this flip bug/exploit, and that bioware arent going to start punishing dedicated players for farming instances, space combat, chests, etc.

 

And to clarify, I am against gold farmers and exploit abuse. Waiting for a boss pop/chest pop, especially with long timers, is not abuse. Its playing the game.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Kitsunami

[jugeum]

I think a great deal of the people who are upset about this are reading into the, lack of, details far too much. Bioware has given a fairly innocuous statement that covers much territory, and for good reason.

 

One they don't directly define the behavior because they don't want people to repeat the behavior. If they gave examples of things people were doing to get banned then others would start doing the same thing. Sure they would game the system a bit in order to avoid a suspension or ban, but they would still do it. If people know a way to legally cheat the system they -will- legally cheat the system. If someone told me how to avoid paying a huge sum of my income taxes or report so I get a return, I will do it.

 

Also, The goal for Bioware, a business trying to make money, is to create an environment that is both fun and rewarding for as many people as possible. If they find the actions of a few are affecting the many in a negative fashion, then they will take action to protect the many. It may sound like they are "telling people it's not okay to make money," as many of you have tried to say, but in fact it is a measure to protect the many. If they don't do something about it, then there will be some sort of Occupy Coruscant movement, and we don't want people blocking my access to the Galactic Senate. I have corrupted Senators to expose.

 

They need a "blanket statement" so they can go back and adjust their line of thinking later, or provide players the ability to argue against a ban or suspension. Keeping it open will allow them some wiggle room in case some situations turn out to not fit their original problem. Also, a player may not have been "exploiting" for some reason or another. They can go back check logs and then tell the player they feel it was or wasn't a justified

action taken against them.

 

There has been far too much speculation about Bioware's intent or lack of respect for players or whatever. However, only a few things remain totally true. They have to make sure the game is fair for all players and they take measures to protect the many. This is their game and their rules. We have to abide by them or move along. It isn't a democratic decision. However, I commend the people who have added their ideas on how to fix this problem without breaking immersion. Like making nodes skill and level restrictive and don't show up on your mini-map and are non-interactable. Also, having lock boxes be level specific and when you try to open them it gives you a message stating, "you are unfamiliar with this technology" or something to that effect. These are all good ideas and it would behoove Bioware to look into implementing them.

 

My two cents.

[Debiru]

Hi All!

 

Been reading this for the last 2 hours now and have decided to try and clarify some things.

 

1) Firstly, let's all try to be civilized, ok? So far - both in-game and on these forums i've been struck by the (mainly) great level of maturity the community displays. Would be sad to see that go.

 

Now, to the matter at hand. Some clarifications - at least as I see them having done my best to gather as much info as I could on this whole situation.

 

2) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for farming. No-one will be banned for farming. Farming is ok. Farming is, and always will be, normal gameplay. Feel free to farm 24/7 if you like (as long as you're not botting)

 

3) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char. No-one will be banned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char.

 

4) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for slicing. In fact - this situation has not in any way, shape or form been connected to slicing.

 

So, what have people been WARNED or temp-banned for?

 

5) Mis-using game mechanics deliberately to gain significant advantages and in the process riskinig destabilizing the game economy. In this instance, it seems to have been done by colluding with the opposite faction to INSTANTLY reset storage boxes and / or gathering nodes. Let me clarify - being on Ilum, sitting next to a node or storage box and camping has NOT been any problem at all. What has been a problem has been participating in this exploit. Saying that one doesn't know that this was an exploit really does not cut it. Common sense anyone?

 

What have people been perma-banned for?

 

6) Selling credits for real-world money to other players. Note that Stephen Reid - in his post - chose to report these two actions together. However, nowhere in his post does it actually say that these two issues are related. First issue - accounts were perma-banned due to botting and selling credits for real-world money. Second issue - people were temp-banned or warned for using an exploit - NOT for farming, camping, visiting Ilum with a low-level char. Two separate issues.

 

Again - No-one has been banned or warned in any form for camping, farming, looting or any other normal gameplay means. Would I object to people being banned or warned for camping or farming? Absolutely. While I consider (myself) camping indefinitely to be somewhat rude and detrimental to the game - if you want to play like that, who am I to object.

 

If, sometime in the future, Bioware does decide to limit the amount of times one can farm a specific node or resource I would expect them to clearly explain this beforehand. Note that this is NOT what has happened here.

 

Were all temp-banned accounts warned before the ban took place? We don't know. Could Bioware have handled this in another way? Sure. Did they handle this ok? IMO, sure - apart from perhaps not being clear enough about what happened.

 

Now, I sincerely hope that this alleviates some confusion at least.

 

So, can we all now continue to get along and enjoy the game?

 

assumed that this was a good psot and decided to re run it^^

[Pat_Ferr]

I really love this game. That being said, things do NOT seem to have been thought out completely by the developers of this game, and there are more bugs in this game as-is than a Tiajana whore house. I started a hunter on Hutta, and was able to do quests 2 or 3 times that should have closed once I finished them once.

 

I really think that penalizing somebody for going where they can raid a credit container at a low level, I don't care what the reason is (unless they are actually selling them on Ebay or something like that). If somebody wants to go there and can get to a container, then DOCK the DEVELOPER'S pay, don't penalize someone for explointing something that any Developer with a brain could figure out that making the containers "Level Specific" meaning, nobody below a certain level could open them, would solve the problem without slamming your CUSTOMER for just playing the game the way he/she sees fit to playing it. I am sorry that it might be messing with the economy, but like somebody said, when you micro-manage, or try to micro-manage an economy in an MMO or in real life, it doesn't work. The people who take risks are the people who are rewarded. If the container was put in the game to allow people to access it, then let them access it. If you thought "Well, only level 40+ will be in this area", that's just foolish thinking on the Develper's part, and I am sure you had many many meetings (I worked at Microsoft in Games, and I know these things SHOULD have come up), but since they didn't, I think you owe the people who you penalized for just opening the canisters when they supposedly shouldn't have is unfair. One of the CS replies here was "rules are rules", well what rule says you can't go ANYWHERE in the game except in areas that partain to your level only, and if caught, you are in danger of suspension or expulsion. That totally sucks, especially when, like I said, making the container "level specific" would have solved the problem and lowered the risk of people "taking the chance".

 

Pat Ferr....

[Debiru]

no the definition of exploit is:

 

ex·ploit

2    [ik-sploit]

verb (used with object)

1.

to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.

 

which i see has a positive connotation.

 

Can you show me ANY IRL prrof that "Exploit" beeing used in a positive way?

 

loike how CEO of a bank siphons cash for his own purpose by screwing over ppl who seek to take a loan to buy the needs of life?

 

Or in 3rd world countries where (usualy) men exploit they`re politicly or just any power at random to again, exploit the country or its inhabitants for what ever they deem that they need!

 

 

I think you have some serious issues whit you`re moral compass my friend.

Any i have read EVERY post from page one to (ssome odd 60 where i am now)

and you`re posts makes me often lough out loud beeing so redicolus or far fetched of an logic or becoming enraged by the sheer and massive ammount of detatchment from human logic and reason.

[Yorp]

Gathering:

Removed some high-level harvesting nodes from Tatooine, Corellia, and Ilum.

 

Interesting. Probably most effective way how to address excessive (legal) farming. But I don't know if it's best solution.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Yorp

[Aniaden]

So keeping up with this thread is almost impossible. What I'm trying to understand is, was there a actual exploit used to obtain these chests at a unusual rate? If they used some game mechanic to get chests to respawn faster than what they would do so normally I can understand all this. But If its a matter of someone with the correct skill level and being able to travel to a planet to use that skill level getting in trouble because they farmed the hell out of some chests they found that had a good spawn timer on them, then Im at a loss at what all the commotion is about.