Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[monimoni]

Y U SO SMART? Y U NO WORK 4 BIOWARE?!

 

Cause you have no idea what you're talking about. If you know what can make or break a 1-million subscription MMO, why aren't you in charge of your own?

 

Intelligence-wise, you're not even is the same universe as the OP. "Duh! Duh! Me Post!" Go back to feeding the cows!

[blackcerberus]

I've said for awhile now that Bioware is backed into a corner.

 

They can't come out and say "We screwed up, we're sorry, we'll totally fix it!" because that's not how you do business (regardless if you think that's how one SHOULD do business). So they're stuck with either the stalling tactic (which is all we've seen from the amazing post of "Yeah....it's there".....because we didn't already know that) or a "working as intended" approach that will make them look like they're saving face by basically casting aside any responsibility and putting it back on the players. Of course, the third option is just fixing the damn thing and not saying anything except a one-line spot in the patch notes to the song of "animations altered slightly to enhance PvP;" which is about as daft as one can get; but nothing less is expected from Bioware at this point, sadly.

 

There will never be an apology, there will never be an explanation; all we can hope for is a fix; but if you're like the majority of this thread, you aren't holding your breath.

 

sadly, this

 

BioWare are hellbent on killing their own game, and there's nothing we can do to stop them

[Radagastimus]

so just invert the command ... you have to press left to go right ecc... yeah after some time you get used to this ... but this dont mean that its right ...

 

if i have a bar that said to me that my ability will fire in 3.2 sec i adapt to it .... but if a skill dont fire at all its a problem i cant adapt to this becase its casual, if a skill took more that the bar show, and i dont know how much i cant get used to this ....

 

PS.. heal on self cant miss .... but they dont do heal sometime but plays the animation and trigger gcd...

 

Indeed there is an issue amd i have it also at times and sometimes it is even so horrible i cant really do combat even in solo BUT it has nothing to do with how long animation works, at least not for me but the fact that there is 0.8 to even 3 sec delay before anything happens at all and there is also unnecessary delays between abilities where character does not have animation or anything but just stands still even tho GCD seems to trigger but then again this happens sometimes in WOW as well and its not because of network lag but by some issue on their side but for them it only happens in instances.

 

Now ability delay and character responsiveness is about how fast character reacts to you using abilities and how well thei connect to each other. At least that is what it means to me.

 

I also prefer balanced substance vs function and thus i do not want them to add any clipping here since it just makes things look unfinished, instead they should fine tune those animations and abilities and make some instant abilities non-instant to make them work better together and look fluidic while also working fluidic.

[monimoni]

I must have posted in beta about this 300 times. Keep this thread alive and show your support. The utterly idiotic animations being a bounding box for abilities and gcd is my #1 mots reviled thing in this game.

 

Also your should "fire off" your abilities on mouse RELEASE not PRESS, which compiles the problems with "ability lag".

 

3 is lightning strike, 4 is shock: I press and release 3, cast time begins, I press and hold 4, the millisecond my cast bar hits 0.0 i release 4 and shock goes off. regardless of where my arms are, what little animation you have going on. kill it and start the new one. Seriously, There are no words to describe how utterly important it is to get this fixed. It's the one area of the game you interact with 100% of the time. to do anything but move you must have the ui. If the ui is crappy and unresponsive, everything else will suffer from it too. PLEASE SET THIS TO TOP PRIORITY!!!

 

Well put. I thought I was experiencing a lot of lag, until I started fighting mobs with knockback abilities. Then, I would notice that I got knocked down, and even when I used my trinket, I couldn't get back up. Or I would, fire off a spell, then be back on the ground!!

 

I start to mount, my mount appears, then if I move too soon it disappears again!

 

Just fix this one issue; I have no other complaints with the game, it's superb.

[Isgarot]

New Operation: Bioware Station ....

 

Bioware station was a big implant of game developers, but imperial force storm in and try to break the best project of this implant, the " SW:TOR " project , by slicing it and introducing a virus named "ability lag".

 

We have to stop them before its too late !

 

Good luck !

[Feskitt]

 

Another update from me, Merc.

 

 

Said in the first version of this post that I had no problems, didn't notice really any of the problems others cited, including other BHs.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "wasn't experienced enough to know any better."

 

 

Since then, I have played in pretty much all the Heroics and Flashpoints on the Imperial side.

 

Came back in, update that I'm still having no problems with combat, no delay, no sluggishness, no animations wigging out, whatever.

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "you don't PvP, and only the opinions of PvPers count!"

 

 

So I did PvP for a few days. (despise Huttball, can't choose which Warzone you queue for, so only did around 6-7 matches). By the end, I'm usually getting 20-30 kills, 5-8 deaths, top spot twice.

 

Reported that I'm still not noticing any of the problems others claim, including specific combinations of BH powers that other claim don't work right, that I'm now using even in PvP.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> well, really they didn't say anything. Just stuff like "you don't know what you're talking about!" (I assumed they stomped their feet and stuck their fingers in their ears when they read my post)

 

 

 

Anyhow, there seem to be certain glitches w/ certain powers, or certain classes, and those should obviously get fixed. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

 

I hope like hell this isn't just a case of people not liking the nature of TOR's combat, calling it a "glitch," and lobbying here to get it changed to what they want. Cause I friggen LOVE combat as a Merc.

 

(Though I'd really like a 25-30 slot quickbar, not this limited 12 slot design. And we should be able to choose which WarZone we queue into, the current setup is amateurish at best)

 

 

 

 

[OppaiFocus]

I hereby fully support this thread and stress the importance of this issue.

 

- Another voice

[Stelakh]

No but your comment sure is.

 

This game reacts no different than games like LoTRO and others. If you like WoW, which btw is a dumbed down version of most combat systems, then too bad. This isn't WoW and I personally do not have problems with the combat system.

 

Yes. The game is a lemon. It wasn't ready. It isn't ready.

 

The combat system is a horrible joke played on all of us by Bioware.

 

I've never played WoW. I played LoTRO for a few days. I don't care about them, don't really know about them, and find any comparison to any other game to be entirely moot.

 

I don't care what came before, I really don't. I care about *this* game that *just* released in 2011, and feels like it was made in 2003.

 

The delay is mind-blowingly stupid, and makes for a horrible gaming experience that just makes people want to give up because it seems Bioware designed a game intended to simply frustrate the customers and make us walk away.

 

Yes. This game reacts MUCH differently than other (OLDER) MMOs I play.

 

Yes. The game is a lemon.

[Keii]

A great example of this delay is the Assassin execute ability Assassinate.

It's an instant ability that you can fire off when the target is below 30% HP that has a ~1.5s second animation to it where the assassin spins their lightsaber above their head and then strikes it down on the target.

The ability reads:

Assassinate

Instant

Force: 25

Range: 4m

Attempts to assassinate the target, dealing 4148 - 4451 weapon damage. Only usable on targets at or below 30% max health.

 

 

However many, many times you will spin your lightsaber above your head and the enemy will run through you and it will cancel the ability.

Until that lightsaber comes down on the opponent, the damage is not done. So within that ~1.5 seconds it takes to spin the blade above your head, the enemy can run through you and cancel the damage. For an instant ability this is ridiculous.

[AlexRose]

It is really true. Ignorance is bliss

[Isgarot]

Another update from me, Merc.

 

Said in the first version of this post that I had no problems, didn't notice really any of the problems others cited, including other BHs.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "wasn't experienced enough to know any better."

 

Since then, I have played in pretty much all the Heroics and Flashpoints on the Imperial side.

 

Came back in, update that I'm still having no problems with combat, no delay, no sluggishness, no animations wigging out, whatever.

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "you don't PvP, and only the opinions of PvPers count!"

 

So I did PvP for a few days. (despise Huttball, can't choose which Warzone you queue for, so only did around 6-7 matches). By the end, I'm usually getting 20-30 kills, 5-8 deaths, top spot twice.

 

Reported that I'm still not noticing any of the problems others claim, including specific combinations of BH powers that other claim don't work right, that I'm now using even in PvP.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> well, really they didn't say anything. Just stuff like "you don't know what you're talking about!" (I assumed they stomped their feet and stuck their fingers in their ears when they read my post)

 

 

Anyhow, there seem to be certain glitches w/ certain powers, or certain classes, and those should obviously get fixed. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

 

I hope like hell this isn't just a case of people not liking the nature of TOR's combat, calling it a "glitch," and lobbying here to get it changed to what they want. Cause I friggen LOVE combat as a Merc.

 

(Though I'd really like a 25-30 slot quickbar, not this limited 12 slot design. And we should be able to choose which WarZone we queue into, the current setup is amateurish at best)

 

if you dont have issue ... or you dont heal ...or you heal very slow ... or just dont want to see because of funboysm (a new illness)

 

I only see that i have the issue when i try to fire skill and they fire like 0.5 -0.8 sec after the bar complete.... with (57 latency)

 

Sometime they just dont fire even if they cast animation and i lose a cast .... istant heal sometime just took 2 sec to fire

 

and i have a sparking new aurora alienware (thanks santa) and a very good ping ...

 

 

But after this .... even my brother, and my friends experience this, so isnt only me ...

Edited January 4, 2012 by Isgarot

[itzipg]

A great example of this delay is the Assassin execute ability Assassinate.

It's an instant ability that you can fire off when the target is below 30% HP that has a ~1.5s second animation to it where the assassin spins their lightsaber above their head and then strikes it down on the target.

The ability reads:

Assassinate

Instant

Force: 25

Range: 4m

Attempts to assassinate the target, dealing 4148 - 4451 weapon damage. Only usable on targets at or below 30% max health.

 

 

However many, many times you will spin your lightsaber above your head and the enemy will run through you and it will cancel the ability.

Until that lightsaber comes down on the opponent, the damage is not done. So within that ~1.5 seconds it takes to spin the blade above your head, the enemy can run through you and cancel the damage. For an instant ability this is ridiculous.

 

This is so much worse with the "Maul" abilty and it's ridiculous in PVP. It's almost impossible hit a target.

[Ljungen]

What I have noticed now after a bit of testing is that if you spam a key the ability actually interupt itself and start over.

 

We all know that if you for example start casting something then use an instant the ability gets interupted.

This is what´s happening with the abilitys. they cancel themself out if you spam the button to fast for the game to handle.

 

It is very easy to test aswell.

[Gurkburkenen]

 

Another update from me, Merc.

 

 

Said in the first version of this post that I had no problems, didn't notice really any of the problems others cited, including other BHs.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "wasn't experienced enough to know any better."

 

Since then, I have played in pretty much all the Heroics and Flashpoints on the Imperial side.

 

Came back in, update that I'm still having no problems with combat, no delay, no sluggishness, no animations wigging out, whatever.

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "you don't PvP, and only the opinions of PvPers count!"

 

So I did PvP for a few days. (despise Huttball, can't choose which Warzone you queue for, so only did around 6-7 matches). By the end, I'm usually getting 20-30 kills, 5-8 deaths, top spot twice.

 

Reported that I'm still not noticing any of the problems others claim, including specific combinations of BH powers that other claim don't work right, that I'm now using even in PvP.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> well, really they didn't say anything. Just stuff like "you don't know what you're talking about!" (I assumed they stomped their feet and stuck their fingers in their ears when they read my post)

 

 

Anyhow, there seem to be certain glitches w/ certain powers, or certain classes, and those should obviously get fixed. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

 

I hope like hell this isn't just a case of people not liking the nature of TOR's combat, calling it a "glitch," and lobbying here to get it changed to what they want. Cause I friggen LOVE combat as a Merc.

 

(Though I'd really like a 25-30 slot quickbar, not this limited 12 slot design. And we should be able to choose which WarZone we queue into, the current setup is amateurish at best)

 

 

 

 

 

You sir, do not know what you are talking about. Go to a friends house that has the game and try a different class then and come back with another excuse. If you do this, and still dont see the HUUGE FLAW thats right under your nose, then you are obviously blind or as someone described, a keyboardturning clicker that has never played WoW or any other MMO and has nothing to compare with.

[Raice]

This happens to me a lot. At least, I think this is the problem I'm having. I really don't know.

 

In PvP it is SO frustrating. I thought it was lag. I thought maybe there was something I just "didn't get." But I see now what the problem is...

 

I am often times spamming my ability and nothing happens. I'm in range. I'm where I need to be. But the ability just won't fire. I spam it. Nothing. No GCD; no nothing is keeping me from using the ability. I just run around doing nothing for a good 2-3 seconds.

 

This might be an unrelated problem, and it usually only happens in PvP. But it is INFURIATING to have a guy beat me down and my abilities won't work.

[Hamstaxo]

i believe that all the fps and ability lag issues depend on the animations....

[fallenvirtues]

My worst bugs are all to do with Ravage, the most broken ability in pve, pvp, it doesn't matter where you are or who your using it on.

 

1, Charging will more often than not cause Ravage to consider your character still moving, and it will not work.

 

2, When you do use it after a charge and it fails, it more often than not will keep you rooted in place, and play out the animation doing 0 damage.

 

3, Lastly when using Ravage and killing someone the animation tends to not cancel, the root not leave, and the animation to play out regardless of a dead opponent.

 

Another lesser bug is to do with animations all together.

 

1, Force scream has a bad habit of beginning its animation, stopping milliseconds afterwards and starting again, delivering the attack.

 

2, Crushing Blow also suffers the same issue, starting, restarting and delivering the attack.

 

Of course I agree with the interrupt business. GCD in effect means no interrupting that attack so you wait before delivering an attack to interrupt theirs instead....

 

This is how I know the problem is isolated to certain individuals..Or at least the degree of the problem...

 

I play a marauder and I NEVER experience a problem with Ravage, Force Scream, and etc. My only gripe with Ravage is sometimes I will hit the next ability and it will cancel out my last swing in ravage...Not really the games fault though..

 

I'm not saying its all in your head, I'm simply saying its definite that some experience a problem with certain things and others do not

[Gurkburkenen]

i believe that all the fps and ability lag issues depend on the animations....

 

It has nothing to do with fps. I'm playing with constant 60 fps.

[adww]

I am starting to notice this more and more on my juggernaut. Specifically with the abilities Viscous throw and Ravage. There have been many instances were I will activate ravage, my animation will play through, but I will have no channel bar and my target will take no damage. This does not put ravage on cool down, but moving does not cancel the animation. I am just sort of stuck in a useless animation doing no damage.

 

With viscous throw; I will spam the ability on a target below 20% hp but it will not activate, my character will just walk around looking like an idiot trying to finish off a target. What is even weirder with this ability is that I know it is trying to do something because my global cool down will start with my character not actually doing anything. These particular instances are very very noticeable in pvp and make the whole thing feel like an awkward mess.

[Radagastimus]

 

Another update from me, Merc.

 

 

Said in the first version of this post that I had no problems, didn't notice really any of the problems others cited, including other BHs.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "wasn't experienced enough to know any better."

 

Since then, I have played in pretty much all the Heroics and Flashpoints on the Imperial side.

 

Came back in, update that I'm still having no problems with combat, no delay, no sluggishness, no animations wigging out, whatever.

- People here said <paraphrased> it's cause I "you don't PvP, and only the opinions of PvPers count!"

 

So I did PvP for a few days. (despise Huttball, can't choose which Warzone you queue for, so only did around 6-7 matches). By the end, I'm usually getting 20-30 kills, 5-8 deaths, top spot twice.

 

Reported that I'm still not noticing any of the problems others claim, including specific combinations of BH powers that other claim don't work right, that I'm now using even in PvP.

 

- People here said <paraphrased> well, really they didn't say anything. Just stuff like "you don't know what you're talking about!" (I assumed they stomped their feet and stuck their fingers in their ears when they read my post)

 

 

Anyhow, there seem to be certain glitches w/ certain powers, or certain classes, and those should obviously get fixed. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

 

I hope like hell this isn't just a case of people not liking the nature of TOR's combat, calling it a "glitch," and lobbying here to get it changed to what they want. Cause I friggen LOVE combat as a Merc.

 

(Though I'd really like a 25-30 slot quickbar, not this limited 12 slot design. And we should be able to choose which WarZone we queue into, the current setup is amateurish at best)

 

I really believe you dont have issues since i also dont have them all the time but i also have delays on abilities which is not necause of network latency or computer slowness excluded possible interprocess communication lag between SWTOR processes.

 

I also believe some of the problems come from people who just mash too many buttons in frustration because of delay between keypress and actual ability starting to happen. Still some abilities wont work all the time and if it is because they miss it must be clearly stated by ingame info during combat. I also believe than some of people thinking they have this same problem actually have network latency and mistake it to be this issue as it usually happen when people just want to think that problem is not in their end of hardware/software.

 

However this does not negate the fact that there is delays between keypress and ability happening and also unnecessary delay between some abilities that should work well together. There is issues but in the name of problem solving it would be foolish to blatantly state that if someone has no problems he/she still has even if he/she thinks there is no problems since they actually may have flawless gameplay and combat because of some variable in their system that other do not have.

 

And you can also re-install display drivers since that seems always the best solution Blizz has for almost any problem

 

Oh and you actually CAN have more than 12 quickslots. Press the litle button in top left corner of your default actionbar to expand it and then in preferences->User interface enable right and left action bars and there you have it All can also bided to any key you want.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Radagastimus

[Seroxi]

Just posting here to show my support fixing this issue.

 

As someone who has played quite a few MMOs up to date including UO, Lineage 1 & 2, Ragnarok Online, WoW, WHO, Aion etc., I can say, just like OP, without a second thought, that WoW has by far the best combat system out there. I have played arenas competitively and raided in a top 200 guild in the world and the one thing that always put WoW ahead of the other games was the combat system. It kinda reminds me of Bioware's slogan for Dragon Age 2 which was something along the lines "You push a button and something awesome happens."

 

Every single new MMO copies a lot of stuff from WoW and I don't blame them since there is no need to invent the wheel twice, but the one thing I don't get is that people seem to copy everything BUT the one thing that makes WoW so good - that being the combat system.

 

Now I don't want to sound like some raving WoW fanboy, I've spend more than enough hours roaming in Azeroth and I have no intention of going back. I picked up SWTOR because I love the Star Wars universe and I was planning to play it very casual (I still need to ask people who can CC and what while doing heroics so go figure) but no matter how hard I try to force myself to ignore all the horrible decisions done with combat system, I just can't. I play as a Bounty Hunter tank and every time I have to wait 1-2 secs for my taunt to land or my Electro Dart to stun a target which is smacking a dps or a healer I feel like I'm the one who sucks eventhough it's the ability delay that limits my gameplay.

 

I'm also a player who enjoys PvP a lot but I just can't bring myself to PvP in this game because it brings back all the horrible memories from WHO. This issue has been explained very well in the OP so I won't start preaching more about it here.

 

I truly hope Bioware does something to fix or change the combat system because I really like this game but I have hard time seeing myself playing it after finishing most of the class quests if the ability delay is here to stay.

[ChillBill]

This really should be the top priority item on the fix list.

 

I am really enjoying SWTOR because of the story, but there is an extreme disconnect between my actions and my characters and once the story ends if the connection isn't there... I can't say the game would still be fun to play.

[OppaiFocus]

It's not engine code, combat in games is feature code. Engine code is are for things like renderers, launching, base network layers, how it relates to Operating systems and drivers, and how the architecture itself functions.

 

However, the only way to fix the Ability Delay issue would be to change the way how server and client interact with each other, which is indeed correlated to basic network architecture.

[asbalana]

 

Another update from me, Merc.

 

 

Said in the first version of this post that I had no problems, didn't notice really any of the problems others cited, including other BHs.

 

---------------------

 

I hope like hell this isn't just a case of people not liking the nature of TOR's combat, calling it a "glitch," and lobbying here to get it changed to what they want. Cause I friggen LOVE combat as a Merc.

 

(Though I'd really like a 25-30 slot quickbar, not this limited 12 slot design. And we should be able to choose which WarZone we queue into, the current setup is amateurish at best)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am much happy for you since you do not have the issues described by the OP. On the other hand, between 500 and 600 pages of posts in the now fourth continuation of this thread does say something. We have most people identifying that the issues exist for them in the 500 pages. Those people span the range of rank beginner to the average (me) to the top tier best of the best. Some have never played another game (like my wife whose total gaming experience is five days of WOW) and some have played multiple games over a decade.

 

These issues are not people who are not liking the nature of TOR's combat. BW has not said that the combat system is working as intended and has indeed implied that there are multiple interrelated problems that they are looking into.

 

The issues as identified exist. There is no doubt. Spells fire with random time delay after they cast, spells don't fire, spells fire and go through animations and don't do damage or heal (and no it is not a hit result). You can hit a key, see your gcd kick in, and yet have nothing happen. Some people have said that the problems actually vary in degree from day to day. That is stranger than a duck's foot, but I have found that to be the case. I can play one day and have the issues so bad as to make playing almost impossible. On another day they may still be there but are much less to the point that I can easily play around them. I have seen the problems on my JK, JC, Trooper, and SI. I have seen the problem on my account on my computer (top notch gaming rig with low latency) and on my wife's account with a different rig.

 

So I don't know if you are a troll, don't know what you are doing, or are sincere and actually not experiencing the issues identified. If the last, I would suggest that BW look closely at you because the fact that you are not experiencing issues may give a clue as to why things are as they are for most others. What is the difference and why are you not affected?

[Malsidius]

So many responses already saying one way or the other, I'll just add to it by saying I agree there is an issue and that I suffer from the delays.