Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Light_Valkyrie]

Actually I do think so. I think that Bioware and EA were "far" too busy patting each others backs to properly realize anything. Furthermore, I stated previously, I am "firmly" convinced that Bioware has no experienced/hardcore Raiders or PvPers. They're a bunch of casuals, probably completely terrible and fairly ****-hurt that they couldn't do **** in WoW (kicked out of groups, months behind content, clicking in PvP etc.).

 

 

I actually had a thought of BW sitting at thier computers playing it and going "OMG THAT LOOKS GREAT WITH THE LIGHTSABERS CLASHING AND ANIMATIONS ARE AWESOME TO WATCH! YAAA"

 

All while playing with just the mouse.

 

:|

Edited January 3, 2012 by Light_Valkyrie

[TheToony]

It;s likely an engine issue which means it's pretty much unfixable outside of revuilding the game from scratch.

[fallenvirtues]

My opinion is: accept the combat system for what it is, cause it is working as intended, or quit. I have quit PVP, and if the end game PVE is not balanced for this slow paced combat system,or it is not fun with the slowpaced combat, then I will cancel my sub, pretend this was a fun single player RPG and call it a day.

 

seriously, you think they never played the game during all of alpha/beta testing? You think they did not notice all the tetsers complaining about exactly the same issues you brought up?

 

There is not one single shred of me that thinks the combat system is working exactly as intended...I think the mechanics themselves are fine and what BW wanted, but obviously they are way out of sync for a **** ton of people and/or the response is horrible when nothing happens at all if you hit a button (sometimes)

 

Fix the damn sync and make sure when i hit a button it works...what work BW has to do to make it happen? Not a single damn clue....But get err done

 

Most agree that majority of bugs and so forth are not the big of a deal..but this situation seems to be a massive deal no matter how its effects you...There is obviously a problem with the UI

[kalexkhan]

It;s likely an engine issue which means it's pretty much unfixable outside of revuilding the game from scratch.

 

It's not engine code, combat in games is feature code. Engine code is are for things like renderers, launching, base network layers, how it relates to Operating systems and drivers, and how the architecture itself functions.

 

Nevertheless, refactoring a feature this substantial isn't a trivial task by any means, I'm just saying it's not gonna be the engine guys that have to do it.

[ChewieFlakes]

This absolutely kills pvp for me, combat is a clunky unfinished mess and I will not keep my subscription past my 30 free days. The storys are great and the potential for good combat is there, but the ability delay is an embarrassment.

[Kerkat]

I hope they will decide to sacrifice the animations for gameplay.

 

I absolutely cannot heal well through this problem. A few days ago when I did Athiss with a group, I noticed it. Then the problem kept cropping up in heroic quests.

 

Granted some of the abilities fire off nicely. But it isn't consistent.

 

Static Shield on Sorcerers. Use it during combat and you will see the delay.

 

I start off my tank with Static shield. Then I make sure to reapply it whenever it comes off cool down for the tank. It is also my last minute protection button for DPS who are taking a lot of damage. It takes a veerrrry long time to reapply. Or it doesn't apply at all. So I need to hit that button again. At the very worst, it won't apply but start its gcd timer.

 

Something wonky is going on between the clients and servers. It seems to be, as others pointed out, tied into animations being handled client side while the server is strict to gcd. Whatever, please fix it.

 

I hung around 2 years in WAR for fixes like this, I'm not going to repeat that experience.

[Isgarot]

I hope they will decide to sacrifice the animations for gameplay.

 

I absolutely cannot heal well through this problem. A few days ago when I did Athiss with a group, I noticed it. Then the problem kept cropping up in heroic quests.

 

Granted some of the abilities fire off nicely. But it isn't consistent.

 

Static Shield on Sorcerers. Use it during combat and you will see the delay.

 

I start off my tank with Static shield. Then I make sure to reapply it whenever it comes off cool down for the tank. It is also my last minute protection button for DPS who are taking a lot of damage. It takes a veerrrry long time to reapply. Or it doesn't apply at all. So I need to hit that button again. At the very worst, it won't apply but start its gcd timer.

 

Something wonky is going on between the clients and servers. It seems to be, as others pointed out, tied into animations being handled client side while the server is strict to gcd. Whatever, please fix it.

 

I hung around 2 years in WAR for fixes like this, I'm not going to repeat that experience.

 

100% agree .. istant heal and shields show how bad the problem is ...

[Khoranth]

I hope they will decide to sacrifice the animations for gameplay.

 

I absolutely cannot heal well through this problem. A few days ago when I did Athiss with a group, I noticed it. Then the problem kept cropping up in heroic quests.

 

Granted some of the abilities fire off nicely. But it isn't consistent.

 

Static Shield on Sorcerers. Use it during combat and you will see the delay.

 

I start off my tank with Static shield. Then I make sure to reapply it whenever it comes off cool down for the tank. It is also my last minute protection button for DPS who are taking a lot of damage. It takes a veerrrry long time to reapply. Or it doesn't apply at all. So I need to hit that button again. At the very worst, it won't apply but start its gcd timer.

 

Something wonky is going on between the clients and servers. It seems to be, as others pointed out, tied into animations being handled client side while the server is strict to gcd. Whatever, please fix it.

 

I hung around 2 years in WAR for fixes like this, I'm not going to repeat that experience.

 

 

Well your problem is it is an instant spell, and you have mistaken the word instant to mean instant. You see,if you press a button during an animation, you will be punished by bioware with lag and unresponsive controls.

 

If you press an instant button, then try to do something when the GCD winds down, and the animation is still playing, you will be punished by bioware.

 

If you want to play biowares game, adapt to watching animations, and forget all you thought you knew about GCD's and instant spells, or the punishment will continue.

[Oacan]

Bioware's response to all of this was so discouraging.....I feel like there is no hope for this game, and as soon as my 29 days are over..IM OUT

 

Mark my words, just as easily as this game acquired its 1.5mill subs, it will lose them all twice as fast if not faster if they do not address these game breaking issues swiftly

 

the saying "Easy come, easy go" will really go into play if this game is not fixed before the free month that comes with the game ends

[Xcore]

Well your problem is it is an instant spell, and you have mistaken the word instant to mean instant. You see,if you press a button during an animation, you will be punished by bioware with lag and unresponsive controls.

 

If you press an instant button, then try to do something when the GCD winds down, and the animation is still playing, you will be punished by bioware.

 

If you want to play biowares game, adapt to watching animations, and forget all you thought you knew about GCD's and instant spells, or the punishment will continue.

 

Reading this while driving home, I lol'd hard.

[Spynde]

There is not one single shred of me that thinks the combat system is working exactly as intended...I think the mechanics themselves are fine and what BW wanted, but obviously they are way out of sync for a **** ton of people and/or the response is horrible when nothing happens at all if you hit a button (sometimes)

 

Fix the damn sync and make sure when i hit a button it works...what work BW has to do to make it happen? Not a single damn clue....But get err done

 

I think this "out of sync" is the problem. Or part of it. Game gives contradicting information with cast bars and GCD. 2,5 sec cast is not 2,5 sec cast, instants are not instants. There are hidden cast times in animations. That's why the game feels clunky. You think you can do something because cast bar is gone, but you still can't cast because the previous animation is still running.

 

Why there even are cast bars and GCD, when animations rule the game? Why didn't they make the cast bar showing the 4,7 sec actual cast (or 3,3 or 5,2 or whatever...) and lock those action bars totally during animations? That would have been clearer and the game wouldn't lie to you and make you believe you actually can hit another skill now. Wouldn't be balanced of course, but it isn't balanced now either.

[Isgarot]

Well your problem is it is an instant spell, and you have mistaken the word instant to mean instant. You see,if you press a button during an animation, you will be punished by bioware with lag and unresponsive controls.

 

If you press an instant button, then try to do something when the GCD winds down, and the animation is still playing, you will be punished by bioware.

 

If you want to play biowares game, adapt to watching animations, and forget all you thought you knew about GCD's and instant spells, or the punishment will continue.

 

I play BW games ... but this isnt NW a single player game based on d&d rule ... this is an MMO

 

So if you said that a skill its istant the animation MUST fit in a GCD or just do the effect ignoring animation... there is no excuse, animation must fit cast time, or stat that faster cast are just useless.. off gcd skill are useless ....

 

And swtor have both ... so its not a design its a real problem

[DeathHenk]

I think this "out of sync" is the problem. Or part of it. Game gives contradicting information with cast bars and GCD. 2,5 sec cast is not 2,5 sec cast, instants are not instants. There are hidden cast times in animations. That's why the game feels clunky. You think you can do something because cast bar is gone, but you still can't cast because the previous animation is still running.

 

Why there even are cast bars and GCD, when animations rule the game? Why didn't they make the cast bar showing the 4,7 sec actual cast (or 3,3 or 5,2 or whatever...) and lock those action bars totally during animations? That would have been clearer and the game wouldn't lie to you and make you believe you actually can hit another skill now. Wouldn't be balanced of course, but it isn't balanced now either.

 

That still does not justify the fact we cannot stack ability. Even so, abilities cast repeatedly one after the other does not go fluidly has it should go. There are brief pauses between each cast. If the pauses are meant to be part of the animation then this responsiveness problem we are talking about here would be solved simply by editing the animations. Whats more of a problem is the delay in the START of the animation which you cannot explain by your theory. But as stated in the first post it has to do with the system or a mix of other factors(see the quote from BioWare first post).

Edited January 4, 2012 by DeathHenk

[Dewystew]

thought it was my computer lagging. im glad to see im not the only one but at the same time im not too happy that its the games fault either. hopefully in a few months its fixed but if not there will be problems.

[Kraivenn]

The thing with Bioware and EA is their preference of 'looks above functionality'.

There are two choices bioware made to make the game interesting which I really dislike:

 

1. No clipping

2. No auto-attack

 

1. This game Has no clipping. I can press all I want, but if the animation does not finish my character will do nothing. This causes any melee class to have moments where do will sit and wait and do nothing during combat. For melee classes an animation has 3 stages:

 

I. Starting position

II. Swing or the attack

III. Returning back to passive position

 

For instance I play an assassin(=shadow) when I use my basic attack 'Trash' or 'Voltaic slash' my character will start to take his stance, swing his saber AND return to the passive animation. Only after the passive animation has finished I can cast a new spell or ability.

 

Now I'm bringing up WoW simply because WoW gives you the feeling YOU have COMPLETE control of your character. Why does WoW succeed? Simply, the priority Blizzard put is:

A. Data registration on the server (or w/e its called)

B. Animations come second hand and are merely a fancy way of showing you're doing an ability

 

The difference with WoW is also, there is NO step I or III. There is only step II. This allows the lag between player vs. server to feel fluid. Because even tho you are casting on your screen, its already registered on Blizzard's server, meaning you can cast another spell while the previous spell animation is still going on the player screen. Also known as stacking.

 

2. In addition having no auto-attack adds more delay to combat than increasing pase and player input during combat. One might think the player input increased, but that is not the case. This extra key to press for an auto-attack to happen adds another delay in animation resulting in your character waiting for the animation to finish. In the end you will notice, as a melee class at least, periods in combat where your character will stand idle.

 

TL;DR: character animations getting ready to cast ability and character going back into passive/normal pose GET OUT, (immediate) attack animation STAY, Allow stacking for fluid gameplay.

 

 

I must disagree, your examples have no validation since the Assassin's attacks animations are shorter than the GCD, like most of the skills (and skills like Jolt wich stops castings without GCD do clip over previous animations, as reckleness, for example)

 

The problen in that matter is simply that SOME of the skills have a sightly higher animation time than the GCD, and you must wait. But this is only some of the skills, wich, in addition to the delay on skills is annoying

 

The solution there would be simple: to make faster those animations, or change them to be 1,5 secs like the GCD, but there is still the big problem, the delay in the skills use

[DeathHenk]

thought it was my computer lagging. im glad to see im not the only one but at the same time im not too happy that its the games fault either. hopefully in a few months its fixed but if not there will be problems.

 

WAR wasnt fixed for years. And that was by EA games. Not sure who decided the cut in WAR, EA or Mythic, but EA has a say in resource spending of BioWare or Mythic was being unable to fix it for >2years or ignorant. So lets hope the second and BioWare has the right people who can fix this soon and keep us up to date on this.

[Spynde]

That still does not justify the fact we cannot stack ability. Even so, abilities cast repeatedly one after the other does not go fluidly has it should go. There are brief pauses between each cast. If the pauses are meant to be part of the animation then this responsiveness problem we are talking about here would be solved simply by editing the animations. Whats more of a problem is the delay in the START of the animation which you cannot explain by your theory. But as stated in the first post it has to do with the system or a mix of other factors(see the quote from BioWare first post).

 

All true. My proposition was only in the case if they didn't want to clip animations. And to wonder cast bars and GCD. I prefer clipping for a _good_ solution.

[Tinkersw]

Well your problem is it is an instant spell, and you have mistaken the word instant to mean instant. You see,if you press a button during an animation, you will be punished by bioware with lag and unresponsive controls.

 

If you press an instant button, then try to do something when the GCD winds down, and the animation is still playing, you will be punished by bioware.

 

If you want to play biowares game, adapt to watching animations, and forget all you thought you knew about GCD's and instant spells, or the punishment will continue.

PUNISHED ...Bioware is punishing us?

[Alianiren]

this problem should never exist If I was a gamedeveloper and made a mmorpg game I would make the responsiveness number 1 on my list and then go further into developing the rest of the game.

*** were the gamedevelopers thinking. I expected to be a good game and now I regret buying it for €76 the story is what gets people in but if the gameplay sucks the story is not worth to play?

jesuz man im *********** drunk and I post **** on this forum Im a starwars fan I played world of warcraft since 2005 and couldnt handle the nerfs on my hunter but still in wow the game was smooth even when doing 40man raids it responded superb. and I heard after buying the game that its only 16man raids? *** the graphics aint even that good!

I like owning people It feels good after work I play videogames and what makes people feel good is owning noobs but I cant enjoy it. I dont care about the animations I want a good story + instant responsiveness thats what makes people enjoy the game. 4 man flashpoints is alright and 16man raids is fine aswell but I'l quit I cant enjoy the game and every single person who bought the game got the same feeling. you gamedevelopers should be feeling verry guilty. and I got the force with me man if you guys dont fix this game like the way I want it to be I will destroy. grrr

 

world of warcraft really rocked with arena/pvp

 

I just felled like sharing my feelings.

[Isgarot]

PUNISHED ...Bioware is punishing us?

 

Yes we are all bad guys ...

 

Or they maybe tell us something more than a "we are looking on this" maybe something like

 

"we are working hard to fix this and soon we try some fix on test server "

 

they are sadic

[Vorax]

BW fix this , love the game, but this stuff is killing us...

[Khoranth]

PUNISHED ...Bioware is punishing us?

 

It's called behavior modification, google it and read about it.

[Halacs]

BW fix this , love the game, but this stuff is killing us...

 

Still see new threads mentioning this.

[Olzmo]

It's called behavior modification, google it and read about it.

Boy, you must be stuffed. You're not getting anything from me at least for now.

[Uhuru]

Actually I do think so. I think that Bioware and EA were "far" too busy patting each others backs to properly realize anything. Furthermore, I stated previously, I am "firmly" convinced that Bioware has no experienced/hardcore Raiders or PvPers. They're a bunch of casuals, probably completely terrible and fairly ****-hurt that they couldn't do **** in WoW (kicked out of groups, months behind content, clicking in PvP etc.).

 

There was no-one around to notice... much like the Theory of Evolution is very predictable (you'd expect exactly the results etc) so is this outcome of SW:TOR predictable.

 

This is exactly the kind of MMO Combat you would expect from a "terrible" player. How did it slip through the cracks? Simple, they were too ****, too slow (APM) - low response time to notice.

 

 

Edit: Hey, at least they made sure I can **** my pet and dress it like slave girl...

 

As the guy who started this thread I am surprised you lowered yourself to this type of rhetoric. If you want Bioware to take you seriously then you should stop.

 

I for one would like this problem to be taken seriously. You, as the thread starter, have damaged your own cause. Please stop.