Mercenary: Bottom of the Barrel?

[Hilnarox]

umm no, i always hit top of my damage chart in pvp and i am doing the objectives at the same time, get a good healer and bounty hunter will take down anyone fast.

 

and you do have an instant cast cc, just takes some putting 2 and 2 together, look at what skill you got at lvl 50 and think.

 

I can Easily Top dmg with 300k+ and 8 medels as powertech.

 

The damage is really on par with mercs and we are generally better

[JaxinRiens]

WoW! (and I don´t mean the game)

 

This didn´t take long until this completely rediculous conclusion is drawn. It´s not working...so it´s supposed to be that way. If that were the case the question why this specific class has such great problems in this department and why it wasn not labeled PvP cripple from the beginning. Would´ve spared many people a lot of time and grief if they had known.

 

So if your conclusion is correct. And it is working as intended the ultimate consequence will be that there will be no Mercs around in the long run. Cos the Powertech can just DPS as well plus everythingelse the merc lacks.

 

So if I have the choice between:

 

a) Merc

 

- bad PvP utility and huge lack of damage in PvP while under pressure.

- great PvE DPS

- great healer (if you are into that)

 

 

b) Powertech

 

- great PvP utility and loads more damage in PvP even while beeing on the move/pressure

- great PvE DPS

- great tank.

 

tough choice.

 

I love how you quoted only the first part of my post and neglected to see that two mercenaries have a force multiplier effect on a unit. A group of scoundrels if properly coordinated cna kill ANYONE in the game from stealth in under 10 seconds. Learn to play to your strengths. I beta'd this game long before it was launched. The devs never said 1v1 balance was the end goal. It has always been about group play.

 

Calm down and HTFU.

[JaxinRiens]

I can Easily Top dmg with 300k+ and 8 medels as powertech.

 

The damage is really on par with mercs and we are generally better

 

AP spec?

[Atsaka]

umm no, i always hit top of my damage chart in pvp and i am doing the objectives at the same time, get a good healer and bounty hunter will take down anyone fast.

 

and you do have an instant cast cc, just takes some putting 2 and 2 together, look at what skill you got at lvl 50 and think.

 

 

indeed we can create an insta cast cc but that uses 2 global cds...not exactly what i had in mind..

[AmagonofBloodfin]

I am top dps in every WZ, usually less than 5 kills. I wouldn't mind more uberness but no....

 

and that's with ZERO pvp gear @50.

Edited January 3, 2012 by AmagonofBloodfin

[Borigrade]

I am top dps in every WZ, usually less than 5 kills. I wouldn't mind more uberness but no....

 

and that's with ZERO pvp gear @50.

 

Gratz you do a lot of damage in the first 2 weeks of play in a game without Brackets.

 

Now if only Mercs Brought some CC like Snipers or Sorcs do, or the Ability to Heal and DPS like Sorcs can, or the mobility of the powertech, the defensive cooldowns to protect us from getting focused (lol 12 second shield) or the ability to do more then stand still and cast easily interrupted Missiles (lol 3 second CD on 1.5 second cast which is our bread and butter skill) we might actually be good.

 

Also have you gone against a good Scoundrel or Operative yet, who do twice our damage and have twice our utility. Or a Sorc who can do the same damage as us (about 300k) and heal for 100K+ in a single warzone. Also lets be honest 30% of our damage comes from Death from Above which is easily countered by standard AoE healing Since we lack an interrupt.

 

I'm not asking to be made into gods, I'm asking to be brought in line with the other classes in the game. Cause as it stands now all we do is damage and we don't even do the most of it.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Borigrade

[Katear]

I do well as a merc, but the class does have some weaknesses.

 

We need a way to travel quickly, to get to or get away from an opponent... It's ridiculous that we don't have this, since we have freaking JETPACKS.

 

 

Also, we need a ranged interrupt that ISNT our electro-dart.

 

Something to counter the 3s interrupt to tracer missile would be nice, but not necessary.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Katear

[Juicenewtonz]

I do well as a merc, but the class does have some weaknesses.

 

We need a way to travel quickly, to get to or get away from an opponent... It's ridiculous that we don't have this, since we have freaking JETPACKS.

 

 

Also, we need a ranged interrupt that ISNT our electro-dart.

 

Something to counter the 3s interrupt to tracer missile would be nice, but not necessary.

 

We have 2 knockbacks and a stun and if you really need it you can power surge a concussion missile to get melee off of you.

 

Our sustained dps is among the best and our AOE is the best, with a crit / surge relic and power surge we can also put out some sickening burst damage, while i do agree that being the one class without an interupt is pretty lame, i have absolutely no complaints about mercenary pvp when playing on my 40% pvp geared 50 merc

[SheepishOne]

I'm not finding the class to be deficient. If you wanted to play a 1v1 dueling class you certainly made a mistake. We're well suited to resist focus with solid health, armor, regens, damage reduction, cleanses, heals and healing increases. On the side of offense, we're well suited to create focus with armor shreds, a constant/sustainable flow of damage and a bit of timed burst. The lack of interrupts and mobility is sad, but it doesn't make you gimped. Mercenaries are party monsters.

 

People don't always know what to expect when games first come out. I'm sorry if any of you don't like the playstyle, but it is enjoyable and competitive. We're lacking in some areas, excelling in others. That's pretty normal. The devs have the raw data, and they will try and fix things there. If you're seriously angry about the class at 50, try another tree. If none of them suit you, there's always the option to reroll.

[Sobakozoid]

It's not about playstyle. It's about PT having a lot more pvp abilities. PT and Merc not balanced in pvp in relation to each other.

[Diddley]

My arsenal spec'd Merc reached lvl 50 the other day and I'm now farming PvP to get geared up. I do feel for a lot of you who complain about the lack of mobility and cast time. Simply put, huttball is difficult - this is maybe worth dwelling on as it's 9 times out of 10 the game I end up with, and I think mercs struggle with it the most.

 

Most frustrating is that the above mentioned cast times and mobility make it hard to actually help with the game. Resorting to playing as a dps turret makes you a constant target, especially if you've stacked crits, and the flow of the game means you are often out of range before you've even cast.

 

The one way I've been able to get involved with the game is to act as a pretty neat blocker for jugs and other ball carriers. If you've been smart and padded out your rocket punch and jet boost you can clear attackers out of the way and cleanse the ball carrier of movement penalties giving them a better chance. This is really effective on bridges. However, the bottom line is it won't get you medals playing like this so what's the point, right?

 

Also, push back for damage and healing should not be a problem for mercs as there are perks to reduce it 70%.

 

It's funny that the majority of my guild see mercs as overpowered in pvp, dropping massive damage and crits, but they don't see the difficulties. I think inq's are overpowered with their cc's, healing and dps. Grass is greener etc...

[Rimbaldo]

I'm not sure how PvP will pan out once everybody gets geared, but I'm estimating that the complaint on this board will increase by a large margin. I've had the pleasure of fighting a couple of people in full Champion gear already while I'm rocking 4 pieces of it myself, and let's just say that the "amazing" burst we can pump out on sub 50s starts nosediving pretty fast once Expertise enters the picture. Maybe the extra 5 or 6% from a full set of Champion myself will make the difference, but at the moment I'm skeptical.

 

With the expertise stat and the relatively fast resource recovery rate of healers (in comparison to other MMOs), BioWare seems to have created a PvP system in which organized teams will rely far more on CC/utility and longevity rather than raw damage; and that's a metagame that DPS Mercenaries will definitely be unsuited for in their current incarnation.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Irishbrewed]

I'm not sure how PvP will pan out once everybody gets geared, but I'm estimating that the complaint on this board will increase by a large margin. I've had the pleasure of fighting a couple of people in full Champion gear already while I'm rocking 4 pieces of it myself, and let's just say that the "amazing" burst we can pump out on sub 50s starts nosediving pretty fast once Expertise enters the picture. Maybe the extra 5 or 6% from a full set of Champion myself will make the difference, but at the moment I'm skeptical.

 

With the expertise stat and the relatively fast resource recovery rate of healers (in comparison to other MMOs), BioWare seems to have created a PvP system in which organized teams will rely far more on CC/utility and longevity rather than raw damage; and that's a metagame that DPS Mercenaries will definitely be unsuited for in their current incarnation.

 

You got it all figured out for us don't you...if you think the merc is unsuited for pvp organized play, you really are off the reservation...we rock face.... I really enjoy rippin our Powertech brethren new ones, and waxing melee... I also can guarantee that if I find your healer, she/he will never get a heal off on another player... Oh and that hutt ball you got there...let me get that and moonwalk this heavy armor across the goal line... Go run some organized pvp, or wait you haven't have you? Yeah SWTOR is all about take the player not the class....give me a naked maurader who has skill, over a keyboard turning forum hero any day of the week.

 

/fistbump

Edited January 4, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Rimbaldo]

You got it all figured out for us don't you...if you think the merc is unsuited for pvp organized play, you really are off the reservation...we rock face.... I really enjoy rippin our Powertech brethren new ones, and waxing melee... I also can guarantee that if I find your healer, she/he will never get a heal off on another player... Oh and that hutt ball you got there...let me get that and moonwalk this heavy armor across the goal line... Go run some organized pvp, or wait you haven't have you? Yeah SWTOR is all about take the player not the class....give me a naked maurader who has skill, over a keyboard turning forum hero any day of the week.

 

/fistbump

 

I don't think I ever insinuated that I had figured out anything for you, I was merely making predictions. I PvP with a group of friends on Ventrilo, so yeah, it's about as organized as it's going to get. Winning is easy against ungeared sub 50s, but when we play against Republic premades and I'm instantly torn apart by a pair of Sentinels in full Champion gear there's only so much I can do. Glad you're doing so well with it, though I'm a bit skeptical you're actually doing anything other than pubstomping if you're "rippin our Powertech brethren new ones" seeing as a well played tank spec Powertech will shut you down completely with a wide array of interrupts and CCs while taking about 750-800 non-crit damage from Tracer Missile. Unless you mean you're spamming down people who are ignoring you, which is what our class currently excels it. It doesn't work so well if the Champion geared ones do decide to take notice though.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Irishbrewed]

I don't think I ever insinuated that I had figured out anything for you, I was merely making predictions. I PvP with a group of friends on Ventrilo, so yeah, it's about as organized as it's going to get. Winning is easy against ungeared sub 50s, but when we play against Republic premades and I'm instantly torn apart by a pair of Sentinels in full Champion gear there's only so much I can do. Glad you're doing so well with it, though I'm a bit skeptical you're actually doing anything other than pubstomping if you're "rippin our Powertech brethren new ones" seeing as a well played tank spec Powertech will shut you down completely with a wide array of interrupts and CCs while taking about 750-800 non-crit damage from Tracer Missile.

 

Let me hear about all these cc's these other classes have that just out shine us? You might wanna ask your organized team why they are letting you get focused, cause if two mercs equally pick a target they too get owned and then make post similar to yours in the forums...

Edited January 4, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Yazule]

Well firstly it is a very new game to most of us, all but the beta boys.

 

i am 50, 3 pieces of pvp gear now and I have found there is a steep learning curve.

 

Firstly let me say I come from another game where i play a more melee roll and pvp a lot. Every tactic I instinctually go for is WRONG, so I am relearning things for this class.

 

There is no "run into the fight" with as spec, you want to be fighting at max range. In huttball I am often defending from the highest platform so i can knock people into the pit, dps as they come up, stun/slow. It isnt sexy but it is very effective. I pick a location so that when the melee leap to me i knock them to a place they have a hell of a walk to get to.

 

In turrets I try to be ninja (without a hide) hanging back and around obstacles where I pop out to stop them from capturing with aoe's. on offensive again max range and spam tracer/unload as it procs.

 

attack/defend is all about being somewhere to take advantage of LOS issues and either spam people at the door or... well i guess i do it whether attacking or defending so thats it.

 

I have found cover (not agent ability) is key, I have to actually think about where i want to fight from, if you are going to stand in the middle of an open area just spamming tracer then you should expect 4 light sabers to blurr in and wax you.

 

I have not concluded yet whether we are over or under powered in pvp, in pve i out dps everyone and everyone knows it in my groups (because i rant about how awesome I am) ...

 

in world pvp with mako 1v1 i tend to pwn, our long term stun works on their companions and with our debuff remover our companions are relatively safe. Lets just say i win more than 50% with equal level fights.

 

I guess the point of my rant is people are talking skills and not tactics. I will weigh in on op vs up later when i have a clearer view but all and all it is fun as hell.

 

One thing I have noticed though, if I go in with a 4 man pre-made group the que tends to put us up against 4 man pre-made groups and a lot of those groups have full pvp sets and have been fighting pvp since day one, while i was out enjoying my story line. When I que two man or solo I have pretty dominant games, when I que in a 4 man i get smoked a lot. I think that is just gear and experience going on to be honest.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Yazule

[Irishbrewed]

^^ good points made on positioning, I would say positioning is key for every class to some extent, and every class has to pick their battles. As in use your brain, don't sit on the guy gettin heals, peel to the healer. Don't make yourself an easy target like u said. Cover s in the game for everyone to take advantage of. Melee use it to Los us and we all use it to try and get outta combat if we wanna use our self heals (well not us mercs:)

 

Only thing I would say to ur post is why do we have to be op or up? What if we are all fine as is? Novel thought huh?

[Yazule]

^^ good points made on positioning, I would say positioning is key for every class to some extent, and every class has to pick their battles. As in use your brain, don't sit on the guy gettin heals, peel to the healer. Don't make yourself an easy target like u said. Cover s in the game for everyone to take advantage of. Melee use it to Los us and we all use it to try and get outta combat if we wanna use our self heals (well not us mercs:)

 

Only thing I would say to ur post is why do we have to be op or up? What if we are all fine as is? Novel thought huh?

 

op vs up?

 

well it is all about relative power to other classes.

 

in pve in dps I do the most, so by definition to all other dps (that i play with) I am OP

 

in pvp, that same dps guy pwns me with stuns chokes and light saber butter knives, so i am UP

 

it is about balance, and I dont need to be "the best class" and I am even good with "i can never kill this class" (rock paper scisors) ... in pvp though it is about objectives, and if you are so useless to a team that your value in a WZ is nothing then there is an issue with game mechanics and that UP would be a very bad thing for me, as a person who likes to feel usefull.

 

I rarely in the many games I have played feel useless, but because the nerf bat and love bat are constantly swinging in all mmo's it is good to have conversations on your relative position to other classes (commenly known as overpowered or underpowered) to help the developers figure out what they want to work on next... I like to feel the love as it were, so hence the conversation for how we stack up in different aspects of the game so that as they change the game it becomes more balanced.

[DervimNorth]

Before this turns into an all-out flame wars, I'd just like to say something:

 

 

1) I think we can all agree that getting our bread and butter ability locked for 12 seconds, with no way out of this- hurts.

 

2) We're supposed to be burst damage class, but other classes do more damage and have tools to maintain range or at least the mobility.

 

3) We are lacking interrupt power.

 

4) Most of the time, our play style involves staying out of sight and out of mind.

 

5) When we do blast someone, we're praying there's a team member nearby to back us up, otherwise, we're pretty much toast.

[Yazule]

Before this turns into an all-out flame wars, I'd just like to say something:

 

 

1) I think we can all agree that getting our bread and butter ability locked for 12 seconds, with no way out of this- hurts.

 

2) We're supposed to be burst damage class, but other classes do more damage and have tools to maintain range or at least the mobility.

 

3) We are lacking interrupt power.

 

4) Most of the time, our play style involves staying out of sight and out of mind.

 

5) When we do blast someone, we're praying there's a team member nearby to back us up, otherwise, we're pretty much toast.

 

we have 2 ranged and 2 melee interrupts if specced right, though one of our ranged has a cast time of its own so that kind of sucks.

 

i see our bread and butter as being tracer missile, so not sure how that gets locked for 12 seconds?

 

not sure what burst vs overall damage relationship is, We burst very well with timed explosions followed by missile/unload ... bursting is much greater than overall for pvp, getting the kill fast enough for the healers to not keep up is more important that the "totals" number on the board at the end of the fight. I am still working on my pvp set so not sure how my bursting will stack up with other geared classes atm. My gods i need a damn parse so I can experiment on what bursts the most,

 

i dont see any flame fest starting, we are just communicating here

[Tavicus]

A lot of you I see have been playing Arsenal spec, which i also had played, mostly for leveling up to 50. tried Arsenal at 50 in PVP, but found that I was just getting interrupted way too often, so i switched to Pyro for more mobility.

 

Not trying to tute my own horn, but i am constantly at the top of total damage done in warzones, as with this spec im am always shooting nonstop. with pyro spec i can kite pve mobs til the sun comes up, which is suppose to be one of our main tactics as pyro, but in PVP its another story. The shortcoming in this tactic in PVP is that it doesnt really work that well, yes i use positioning and los, but one on one with a melee chasing me down, im using all of my stuns and knockbacks but the melee just counter everything with jumping (or pulling) me to them then slowing me for a lot longer than my measly 2 sec slow proc.

 

perhaps i am not doing it right, but i would love to trade some of my overall warzone leading damage for some kiting abilities that work, perhaps a shorteded duration of slowing effects on my charactor so i can last a bit longer one v. one.

[Yazule]

A lot of you I see have been playing Arsenal spec, which i also had played, mostly for leveling up to 50. tried Arsenal at 50 in PVP, but found that I was just getting interrupted way too often, so i switched to Pyro for more mobility.

 

Not trying to tute my own horn, but i am constantly at the top of total damage done in warzones, as with this spec im am always shooting nonstop. with pyro spec i can kite pve mobs til the sun comes up, which is suppose to be one of our main tactics as pyro, but in PVP its another story. The shortcoming in this tactic in PVP is that it doesnt really work that well, yes i use positioning and los, but one on one with a melee chasing me down, im using all of my stuns and knockbacks but the melee just counter everything with jumping (or pulling) me to them then slowing me for a lot longer than my measly 2 sec slow proc.

 

perhaps i am not doing it right, but i would love to trade some of my overall warzone leading damage for some kiting abilities that work, perhaps a shorteded duration of slowing effects on my charactor so i can last a bit longer one v. one.

 

yeah i am wondering a lot about pryo spec and have not used it at all fyi, speaking purely from ar spec. They have said that you will be able to make two specs within your specialization, cant wait for that. ATM I am sticking with ar spec, still a lot to learn, new game and probably changes on the way and I like being "rocket man" hehe

[Ironeyes]

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if we could fire off our attacks on the move we would be the most OP'd class in the game. We do a LOT of damage (Arsenal spec) but at the cost of having to stand still.

 

Yeah, i'm only level 41 and I gib people. It's not just tracer spam either. Don't let the haters bring you down. Its 3x tracers to get heat sigs, then heatseekers while running, then 2 more tracers for target lock, then rail shot while running (always using unload on procs).

 

Then while you do all this you mix in some stuns and pushes. BH's have a crap ton of keybinds. More than most if you're good.

[The_Duck]

I think we do fine against melee.

If any class gets 2-teamed you are not going to do well.

 

We get a throw, a slow, a knockback/stun, instant stun, long-cast-stun ...

those all work well if used properly.

 

if i see melee coming i normally run off my long-cast-stun.

In that situation it is useful while the meleee attempt to close in.

granted, in close quarters, it is not useful.

 

the AOE throw is pretty beneficial tho. same with rocket-punch spec that throws back and stuns.

[DervimNorth]

we have 2 ranged and 2 melee interrupts if specced right, though one of our ranged has a cast time of its own so that kind of sucks.

 

i see our bread and butter as being tracer missile, so not sure how that gets locked for 12 seconds?

 

not sure what burst vs overall damage relationship is, We burst very well with timed explosions followed by missile/unload ... bursting is much greater than overall for pvp, getting the kill fast enough for the healers to not keep up is more important that the "totals" number on the board at the end of the fight. I am still working on my pvp set so not sure how my bursting will stack up with other geared classes atm. My gods i need a damn parse so I can experiment on what bursts the most,

 

i dont see any flame fest starting, we are just communicating here

 

Simple interrupt like Quell has 8 sec cooldown and lasts 4 secs. So Quell->stun(another 4 secs)->Quell(or any other interrupt). There you go-twelve seconds.

 

As for our "second" interrupt", surely you must be joking. What, possibly can you hope to interrupt with a three seconds cast? Or are you gonna use THAT ability, the one that has a whooping two minutes cooldown? And not only that it breaks on damage, but it also does ridiculously high HoT on the enemy. Not only that, but it doesn't locks out the ability.

 

So no, effectively we have just one ranged and two melee, granted you have points invested into the second one, which isn't always the case if you're going bodyguard. In which cases you're down to stun dart and jet boost with their long cooldowns and no way to shake off an opponent if you're a dedicated healer.