Yes, and then they changed their minds, presumably by having had another good look at it They're not all the same though. If every single classes Advanced Classes were exactly the same there'd be a line of argument but they aren't. Yes my Marauder trains at the Sith Warrior trainer, yes her Ship is the same as the Jugg and yes we share a talent tree and companions. But I cannot equip a shield no matter where I put my points in the Skill Trees and I cannot wear heavy armour. The Jugg cannot duel wield lightsabers no matter where they put their points in the Skill Tree. That's why the Advance Classes are different from each other and why it's arguing semantics

The problem with "MMO players" is that they try and make every game the damn same. If something launches without a particular feature then they cry and cry until everyone who didn't mind or care about said feature wants to ram their faces into a brick wall instead of just playing the game in which it already exists. ^^ or is that just me

That's why it's arguing over semantics. Whether BioWare say Class or they say Advance Class or they say Specialisation is actually irrelevant. BioWare have made it pretty clear that what you choose at level 10 is the Class/Advanced Class/Specialisation/Nuclear Submarine/Tractor/InsertWhateverNameYouLikeHere you're going to be playing for the rest of the game so make sure you know what you're choosing when you pick it. That means they're treating the final eight choices as being SEPARATE from the first four you choose to start with no matter what they choose to call them.

Urm you two aren't on different sides, he's talking about DAoC not SW:G.

Will you get over your insane semantics issue. WoW does not allow you to switch between class types. Not now, not before, not ever. It allows you to respec your talent tree specialisations and so does SW:tOR. Again for those who utterly fail to realise this game works on the DAoC class mechanics: Viking - thane - stormcalling Viking - skald - battlesongs Base class - Advanced Class - Skill Tree Sith Warrior - Sith Marauder - Carnage Sith Warrior - Sith Jugganaut - Vengeance It's there in black and white how the damn thing works. A thane is not a skald. A Marauder is not a Juggernaut. And I've played Dark Age of Camelot which had a class choice at level five and EverQuest II which had a class choice at level 10 and at level 15 (or might have been 20 can't remember now) so was there a point you were trying to make?

A dual spec is not the same as AC switching, not even remotely the same thing. Being able to run two Skill Tree Specialisations so you can PvE or PvP (the usual answer for why it's needed) is fine. Being able to switch between a Sith Juggernaut (tank) to a Sith Marauder (duel wield dps) is not.

No it isn't, that's your SKILL TREE not your Advanced Class.

I played all of those (although UO for about a month only) EQ for more than a year, DAoC I have four accounts (3 EU and 1 US) which are still active, and yet I have no problem with SW:tOR. I also close beta tested and played SW:G and enjoyed that also until I realised that there was no direction to it at all and that if you had a big bunch of mates playing (which I did for a while) then it was okay but if you were on your own, then it was hellish. They also claimed that you could level in any way you wished but that, ultimately, proved false because without at least one level in Bounty Hunter (from memory, whichever one it was that gave you a gun skill) you got slaughtered every time you set foot outside a town. SW:G was a decent game but it wasn't perfect by a long stretch and it was utterly ruined by all those whinging about wanting to role a Jedi and by Sony seeing WoW sub figures and wanting to get in on that action. The CU and NGE ruined it completely.

Because it's not the same game? Fairly elementary I'd have thought.

Done it about five times so far through beta testing and into release, bothers me not and I'm a mother with a three-year-old son so I reckon my play time is just as much, if not more, restricted than yours is. No you don't. I haven't touched any of the Heroics on either Balmorra or Nar Shadaa on my Sith Marauder and I made my levels without any issues. The only quest you HAVE to repeat is your class story one.

It's BioWare's usual crew, most of the voices actors in this have voiced other BioWare games or have voiced game characters for other companies. There's a full list at IMDB.

That's switching your skill tree points, I have no problem with that at all so that people can create something which works in PvE and an alternative for PvP. However, most of the threads I've seen were asking to switch their (as an example) Sith Marauder for a Sith Juggernaut and that I object to as it's a class change.

Worked perfectly well in DAoC and SW:tOR uses exactly the same class mechanics for its system.

And yet you repeatedly ignore at least three of us who have provided you with the EXACT example of how this system mirrors that of Dark Age of Camelot: Base Class - Advanced Class - skills Viking - Thane - Stormcalling is NOT even remotely the same as Viking - Skald - Battlesongs but both belong to the SAME base class and even have some of the same BASE skills. The way they play from level five onwards within their specialisation is utterly different. SW:tOR is absolutely the same as this.

But people aren't asking to change their peanut butter cookies for chocolate chip, they're asking to change it for a loaf of bread.

No they're really not. The Sith Warrior plays in the same way from level one to level 10. At level 10 I get to choose my Advanced Class and gain unique class abilities. At level 10 I ALSO get to put points into a skill tree in which to further refine my unique class abilities. It's exactly the same as DAoC and not like WoW. WoW's warrior doesn't play the same as a WoW Druid from level one to 10. A Warrior in Wow can spec into three different play styles at level 10 but they don't change their basic fundamental class, they don't suddenly become able to heal or to cast magic. That's the difference between changing between classes and changing between specialisations. Urm, you're preaching to the converted, I'm not in favour of people being able to change ACs?

Because you made a choice. If this occurred at level one this discussion wouldn't even be happening. People would simply roll the other class/archetype/AC and get on with it. It was level five in DAoC, level 10 in EQ, in SW:tOR it's level 10. You didn't like what you picked, you went back and rerolled it and ran the beginning levels again, it took a couple of hours.

No idea, I've never played Mass Effect and isn't that an single player RPG?

No it isn't. This game mirrors DAoC not WoW. The way it utilises classes, advanced classes and skill trees is exactly the same. Also your comparison between a Sith Warrior and a Sith Inquisitor makes no sense, they are different base classes. I am talking about the difference between a Sith Warrior who chooses Juggernaut as their AC and someone who chooses Marauder, they are utterly different.

Urm no that's THE class page ON the Holonet but nice try.

Yeah, couple of us have tried this before but they don't seem to get the point that the AC in this is the same as a Class in any other MMO. BioWare's called it a class, an archetype and a specialisation so they obviously can't make their minds up either /sarcasm

It's nowhere near as simple as saying it's an appeal to tradition. It's the basic fundamental of what makes an MMO. You create a character, you choose a class, you level that class, if you don't like it or want to try something else, you level a different one, you don't ask for the one you've just leveled to be changed into it.

I don't need to go there, it says So, if we're getting down to Semantics, BioWare have described within the professional Classes, a variety of different Archetypes.

Still missing the basic fundamental difference that class != Advanced Class.

In YOUR opinion and yet the opinion of plenty other people would be that there are EIGHT Classes within SW:tOR and not the Four you're claiming. It would also seem that BioWare think there are eight different classes as well as they've made each one different once you hit level 10.