Accidentally rolled on a token piece in sm operation today and the item was bound so i couldnt give it to another member of the operations.

Actually Super with the averages currently on Star Parse 9438 on a 2.5 mil dummy selecting only personal bests would put the average DPS around 8600 placing Deception on par with Marksman (8685) and Lightning Sorcs (8706) currently.

If you look at the average of a 2.5 mil dummy Deception is just over 9400 if you just use personal bests and just over 9300 if you use all parses on the 2.5 mil dummy. Deception is sitting at number 5 or 8 depending on which set of data you use (I personally like to use all parses for a truer average DPS) and is below carnage (another Melee Burst class that has already been "balanced". So why hit Deception with such a BIG NERF (could be close to 800 dps loss).

I agree, but it's not just sorcs...all range burst classes have a channeled attack necessary for their burst rotation which is constantly interrupted in pvp and also in pve by a variety of raid boss mechanics. It's also a fallacy to say that range classes especially burst classes can instantly switch targets and maintain their dps. The devs need to play all classes and see how totally screwed up this so called balance has been since 5.3

This class change may be intended for the Rage Jugg/focus guardian but it also nerfs the vengence jugg which I thought was supposed to be one of the +5% melee sustained classes. It is currently at number 12-13 for parsing on the 2.5 mil dummy. Is this really intended?

What if the pvp zones for unranked PVP were level synced to their appropriate planets...ie Huttball to Quesh or Nar Shadaa, Alderaan etc? How would this affect play given the disparity in gear level for so many in unranked warzones? Please dont bash me, I am just trying to think outside the box and wondering if a change like this might work.

This may not be applicable to the thread topic but it is just an idea for unranked pvp warzones....What if the pvp zones were level synced to their appropriate planets...ie Huttball to Quesh or Nar Shadaa, Alderaan etc?

Thanks for the post...just goes to show how my arsenal merc can now be added to the list of classes no longer viable for NIM operations. I can't sustain 9k dps for the 17 minutes to do styrak or 9k for 13 minutes in Terror fight of TFB while jumping platforms etc ...best I have seen is about 9200 on a 2.5 mil parse dummy (approximately 4 min). Operations are not fights against dummies and target switching is not always instant and devoid of mechanics.

I agree with you that melee should do more overall dps than a ranged to make up for the down time however most ranged depend on a channeled attack to set up their rotation and this attack is easily interrupted and secondly my operative is in 236 gear not 248 BIS and still has a higher dps...that smells fishy to me.

I switched to arsenal merc in 2.0 for my raid group (didn't want 3 melee in the group and wanted a burst dps for group balance) and I have been playing the merc as my main since then. I have him in full 248 BIS (according to Bant's charts). I was testing his dps against several of my other toons and its sad. Operative in 236 gear with 240 crafted left side does 300-400 more dps, ven jugg in 242 gear and crafted left side does 400-600 more dps. I am far from being a great merc but I do consider myself to be above average...I tend to parse primarily on 500 k dummies since I am a burst dps spec and prior to Tuesday's patch my best parse without adrenals was 10400 (my average dps over many parses was approximately 10100) and in 15 parses last night (again without adrenals) I averaged 8800 dps....When 5.4 comes out and you nerf our survivability my toon feels as if he will be totally useless...After opening over 1000 packs and playing a crap ton of pvp to gear my toon I dont see any future here....Thanks Bioware ... 2 Questions: Am I that bad? Are other mercs seeing similiar numbers?

Suggestions: Learning Curve: We need some sort of area to go to with "friend" to test on ships and learn to fly similar to dueling could be limited to 4 flyers Ship Imbalance: GSF should be about flying ie strikes and scouts as the main ships too many matches become a chess match with teams flying 5 gunships, and 1 or 2 bombers and a single strike or scout...Reduce the range of gunships weapons from 15k to 10k...limit the number of gunships and bombers allowed in a match Remove the box from the deathmatch map Make all ship requisitions and fleet requisitions legacy and convertable (some fair conversion rate 10 ship to one fleet)...GSF is the only aspect of the game that requires one to pay for conversion or you have ships like one of my ocula's that has over a 500k ship req points just sitting their, and Legacy Hanger would be nice

A Quote from the dev's rationale statement on class balancing: Before we move on from this topic, we want to note the point about the fight lasting around five minutes is rather important. Mercs may be over performing in pvp because out burst damage is excellent for 30 seconds but when it comes to overall output of dps even on a parsing dummy which allows the perfect situation (no pve mechanics) Arsenal mercs are not on the 2.5 mil parse leader boards....and arsenal mercs shouldn't be I might add. Our total dps falls off dramatically in many ops due to certain mechanics (inversion, and many others) or the task we perform in HM and NIM OPS (killing anomalies in TFB, Tentacles in DP, or chasing adds up top on Thrasher in SnV). We have been an ideal class for these tasks because of our heavy armor and good burst dps. I would have been ok with a small nerf to damage (Bants numbers in 248 mathematically have us at .6% above the midpoint and number 9 on the list of dps classes) Trim the benefits of our defensives that were necessary for pvp survivability and Buff the dps of Sorcs and give similar defensives to the PT tank and restore some of their DPS. As far as MM snipers are concerned I find it appalling that a pure DPS class has one of its specs at the bottom of the boards. I never played pvp on my merc until they (Bioware) decided that the only way to guarantee BIS gear was for us to play pvp on our main PVE toons. I miss playing my jugg and op healer in pvp but i have a raid team to think of first.

I play all three healing classes and with 5.0 and the force changes my sorc heal parses in operations dropped 1000 hps and i saw no change at all in pvp...now you hit a healer with a sledger hammer and expect them to do their job totally ridiculous....my arsenal merc is gone and now my 3 sorc healers....WOW !!!

i guess you are ok with the permanent engineering sniper plasma probes...,Mercs arent op you just have to know how to counter them but a class with 2 knockbacks a stun and a roll out along with a huge puddle of damage and slow is more op for my melee class to handle...just saying

Currently all players (PVE and PVP) have a chance at BIS gear from crates...the question asked is how do you motivate PVE players to do the most challenging content in game. With that said, I suggest that you: Make unassembled components legacy (this beneffits both PVE and PVP) Drop at least 1 248 unassembled token and 2 246 gear pieces from each MM boss. Find a way to allow players to exchange duplicate 248 pieces they receive from cxp crates. (I personally have received 4 248 initiative ear pieces and 3 relics of Primevel Fatesealer (totally useless).

I thought that with 230 gear no longer dropping from operations that the devs stated we would be able to purchase 230 gear for our many alts using command tokens. Am i sadly mistaken?

The saddest thing about this RNG system for me is that I no longer play the game for fun...pre 5.0 18 toons all level 65 and some I did pvp on (jugg and sorcs pvp rank 78) ,some I did GSF on (6 fully maxed ships), some were gatherers and crafters, merc dps and operative or sorc heals for progression raids (3 toons full 224 gear)...you get the point Bioware I play your game....and now all I can do is play my merc and commando in the hopes of getting some set gear so we can go back to working on our HM and NIM proogression. THE GAME IS NOT FUN...

I am that guildie...so far 54 crates and one Boundless Ages Relic (epic fail)...and I received a Serendipitous Assault relic...no set pieces or other purple gear.

I have spent a total of 26 hours of game play since reaching level 70 (yes i took 4 days off from work to really push hard to see what was in store for us in SWTOR) . i have achieved Command Rank 18...and have opened 18 crates...so far I have gotten jawa junk, useless cosmetic shells, reputation tokens, and 1 piece with a blue enhancement that i can use...Thanks for the great system...I went from working on HM/NIM progression raids to farming heroics, flying GSF matches (btw I have 6 mastered ships), doing PVP ( i am valor 76) to try to get command points in the hopes of getting the gear to get back into progression raiding. Thanks for nothing EA and the Bioware dev team.

Bioware; I agree with your statement when you say a person running a typical operation is not not guaranteed a set piece of gear;however, in a typical operation 4-5 members of our 8 man team will get a piece of "raid" gear. If I understand what you are saying, our 8 person raid team could run an operation and if the RNG gods are not smiling upon us no one in the group could get a set piece. How do you expect raid teams to gear themselves so that they can attempt the endgame content? Silko is correct, please tone down the RNG.

I hope that the devs read these posts. That said, I would like to see the points earned by ships in GSF be at least account wide. GSF appears to be the only aspect of the game that is pay to play. I have 5 mastered ships and if i want to put points on ships I am forced to spend real money for cartel coins to move points for that account. If the point were account wide or better yet legacy wide players could gear ships in a more timely fashion. I believe that the player base in GSF would increase. Many people do not play GSF because gearing is so difficult. Just my thoughts...

Admittedly this does not solve the issue of RNG; however, it sure beats the old system where set bonuses were tied to the actual armor piece. If you have multiple mercs or merc commando combinations you can use the second belt. chest, etc to gear that toon.

I am very happy where I am now please leave us as we are