Good job bursting while waiting on a duplicity proc.

I'm gonna assume the OP is a deception assassin. Because Madness doesn't have all these problems and the only class that does more damage is a sniper. We out damage every other range class. The only class that does more pve damage than us is a marauder, and we have the better buff, plus the ability to still dps from range, AND we can battle res thanks to force cloak. Please stop all this crying, theres already a thread talking about how deception assassins want to be rogues and mad they can't be, go to that thread.

stealth - Death field - discharge - shock - thrash - thrash - shock - maul with duplicity procs - blackout when low on force http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZGG0MzZfMfRr0krc.1

Yea, Upzie's pvp stream is pretty great

I liked it, just not the music, whats with all these videos and dubstep?

Stop trolling

You do know recklessness also helps death field right? Have you ever read the tooltip, it doesn't just work on shock and force lightning.

These specs have a lot of utility, but absolutely no burst. You only have one move to burst with and thats shock! I guess dark charge discharge if that counts lol. No need for all that utility, force slow, + force speed + FORCE PULL is more than enough to stop being kited. And you put those extra points just to get static cling, when you could put 4 more points in darkness that gives more burst, + AOE + a 30% movement speed decrease! This spec is horrendous.

I play a darkness sin, 50 valor. I can't believe no one has mentioned Force Pull, I mean, you get knocked off a platform, force pull. Force pull the ball carrier as long as he isn't full resolve. Plus its 100% your fault if you get knocked off a platform, don't fight with your backs to the side and I guarantee that will cut down on knockbacks by like 80%. All I ever hear coming to these forums is deception sins crying about everything in pvp. Maybe that spec is just not made for it? But don't lump all of Assassins into your crying cuz darkness/madness sins are fine. Please go reroll as an IA. And 1 more thing, if you do get knock off a platform to make it even you could just force cloak back to stealth so no one wins.

@Darthcnox Wouldn't it be better to open with voltaic slash or force slow and save spike for an interrupt after popping force cloak? Cuz thats what I do.

We are not rogues! We don't need a big hitting stealth opener. I wish everyone who made an assassin to play like a rogue would go roll IA/Smuggler please.

Lower CD on discharge is good for multiple mob fights, like the only use.

I agree, which is why I will def give it a try, the blackswell might be amazing, but I don't think I can give up my 3% crit for it, but I will try.

Calculating mind gives 2 force for each tick, Death field puts 10 death marks on a target, 2 x 10 = 20. Both lightning discharge and creeping terror cost 20 force, so I say free cuz the cost is made up. The only skill that really shows how great death marks are is Raze with crushing darkness. The only really free force regen and damage. Ugh, in quest content I believe I death field, shock, tumult one guy. Then shock, maul, assassinate the next. Then lightning discharge, creeping terror, death field, thrash, assassinate the silver elite.

I've thought about chain shock too , but theres almost nothing in that area thats better. And I do think crits with dots count, because my exploitive strikes is always up but I will test once I go back madness in a few days. Currently 31/0/10 darkness for pvp. Yea, and after reading that thread and seeing the very little drop off in dps I'm def gonna try the hybrid madness.

O yea, and I found the post that shows Madness is the top DPS spec for sins, much better than full deception. http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-May-The-Force-Be-With-You-managing-the-Sith-Assassin-s-Jedi-Shadow-s-resources?pid=6997#pid6997

Yea, I don't trust that write up. I open with recklessness from stealth and then death field then shock. Lightning discharge, Creeping Terror, Thrash. I only use shock to refresh unearthed knowledge, death field whenever I can, creeping terror is free to cast anyway so I use whenever its CD is up, same with lightning discharge and I Thrash my *** off for those raze procs. I also try to save Maul to right before duplicity drops off and ofcourse only if exploitive strikes is up, which it should be up all the time anyway. For relics and what not, I use the rakata crit surge so I wait till my dots are up then pop that, I overcharge saber at the start aswell, right after recklessness, and I reuses recklessness whenever its cd is up and death field is off cd.

As full madness and heavy raider I don't understand the appeal of this hybrid build. Shock should ONLY every be used to refresh unearthed knowledge anyway, w/o Crackling Blast or Electrify it doesn't do enough damage to justify the cost. Thrash does about the same amount of damage, sometimes more and cost 14 less force, and procs Raze for extra damage and the force regen. I understand this build grabs induction which makes it cheaper, but again, it still should only be used to refresh unearthed knowledge. With the reduced cost that puts shock at 19.5 force cost. Now to gain this new shock you give up Creeping Terror, which is really free to cast anyway. And bigger hitting thrashes and 3% crit and longer lightning dots. Blackswell is interesting, but really our 2 piece Stalker set bonus makes force regen not a problem with saber strike generating 3 force, and saber strike damage is not bad for a move that generates free force, mine crits for like 500 a hit. Too me, madness is all about Thrash and Raze procs, and this build forgoes that for a cheaper weak shock and 30% more damage on a nearly useless ability. But I will try it out cuz I'm bored =)

Everytime a dot ticks you gain 2 force from calculating mind as long as you opened with death field. Think of it as force regen. We normally regen 8 force every 2 seconds, with death field and dots up its now about 14 every 2 secs.

As a former madness assassin, in pvp I would usually end up at about 12k healing done using my self heals throughout an entire match. Now as full darkness with the harnessed darknesss force lightning I''m at about 23k. So yea, big difference. And its great using force lightning on someone critting for 1.7k a tick and healing at the same time.

Couple of things off the top of my head, level 50 madness assassin here. Shock is fine, mine crits for about 2.2k on a regular basis. There are videos of deception assassins getting 5k crits with it. Nothing wrong with this skill except maybe its cost. If it costed say 35 force instead of 39. Maul. Yes without the talent its useless, but thats the thing, with the talent its pretty good. Maybe needs like a 10% damage buff if any buff really. Easy 4k crits right now Crushing Darkness is pretty useless, but amazing for force regen and damage for a madness sin. Good for other specs if you need a dot on someone. I think buffing it would imbalance madness. And removing some of the cost/cast time would imbalance the other trees. Spike just needs the knockdown time increased to 2.5 secs. Its not meant to be the assassin mirror of hidden strike that OPS/Smugglers get.

@Op I noticed you don't use shock a lot. Even with the chain shock talent is its force cost too much in comparison to thrash?

23/0/18 is beastly Pretty much any build that isn't mostly darkness is useless.

Before dark charge had a 50% chance to heal for 97 HP every 1.5 secs Now its 425 HP every 4.5 secs 1.5/4.5 = 3 3 x 97 = 291 120 secs / 4.5 secs = 26.6 26.6 x 291 = 7740 So before dark charge was healing for 7740 HP over 2 mins New math 26.6 x 425 = 11305 So now it heals for 11305 HP over 2 mins Now lets add overcharge saber 97 x 300% = 388 Hp every 1.5 sec 15/1.5 = 10 10 x 388 = 3880 so an extra 3880 HP with the old overcharge saber So over 2 mins and 15 secs thats 7740 + 3880 so 11620 New way is 425 every 3 secs for 15 secs so 425 x 5 = 2125 with new overcharge saber So 11305 + 2125 = 13430

Actually its about a 1.6k health loss during overcharge saber. Before, mine was healing for 97 every 1.5 secs. So with the 300% overcharge saber its about 388 every 1.5 secs so 3800 health over the duration. Now mine heals for 425 every 4.5 secs, which is 135 extra health compared to the previous version. And during Overcharge saber its about 2.2k over that same time. So assuming you overcharge saber for 15 secs every 2 mins, the old way was about a net gain of 11.5k, but now it should be a gain of 13.5k. So we are still gaining about 2k HP. So its a buff sir, not a nerf.