Anakin. Dooku would constantly out spar Mace Windu. Anakin overpowered Dooku when Dooku was much more powerful and semi attuned to the darkside. Although The emotionally confused Anakin that faces Obi Wan, I doubt would be able to last more then a few moments against Mace Windu.

The main % error coming from your "data" is that the Marauder class is very gear/skill dependent. I know a number of Marauder's that destroy wzs, and have extremely high dps. Just because a class lacks aoe to achieve the high damage numbers a sorc or bounty hunter can hit does not mean it is not doing insane single target damage. Many of the warzone stats: total damage, medals, healing really show nothing about the player's skill or how that player did in the warzone. I have seen bounty hunters hit 300k damage just by spamming tracer/death from above the whole match. Does this actually help their team win?

Terrible, hypothetical data is terrible

This starting post also has nothing to do with sorc healers. You like everyone else failed to read the first page of what was actually being discussed. If you disagree with what is being said that is fine but you should stay a little on topic

Quit using actual in game pvp conclusions and start using the forum theories of why your information is false. Which those people of course know more about your class than yourself /sarcasm (if it wasn't caught)

I want to see a sorc escape from 3 competent Marauders I really do.

A good amount of valid points but one argument I do not understand is why people keep coming back to the 1v2 argument or even 1v3. Earlier someone asked if you have ever gotten hit by 3x marauders... I hope 3x of any class can nuke down 1 class

True story

Honestly that is a valid point, the sorc/sage has the opportunity to spec into a ton of CC. Then again I doubt bioware is going to nerf everything postive about a sorc, without any cc abilities we would be just 5k hit medal targets.

Thanks for the opinion and believe me I have tried every spec for raiding. Currently my raid group is 10/10 HM ops, which I know isn't amazing or anything but just shows we can hold our own. If this was a pve forum and a post about pve sorc dps I would love to tell you why I think lightning is amazing for raiding but it's not so let's keep our minds back on pvp.

This really comes down to group composition in my opinion. If you are running a premade and have 3 skilled dps on your team, I can almost guarantee you will be able to keep them up. The reason is you will be able to communicate, and they will also be able to protect you. If you are running solo as a healer and have 7 random dps on your team that are running around trying to get top dps, I doubt you will be able to keep 1-2 of them up for very long. And well you can have fun with that group..

Thanks for the post This is more or less what I am trying to get at. I personally love seeing large numbers on my sorcerer but I'd rather help my team with objective then to just go after large groups of people so I can get my overall damage way up. I really do not see any PVE issues For raiding I love running full lightning People have showed me the numbers and why 13/28 madness is uber dps when compared to the lightning builds but personally I do not see the difference.

A fair opinion, personally I believe AOE is an inflated stat but I guess you disagree. Either way this thread is about nerfing sorcs aoe, regardless of how you feel about the pressure it provides for opposing teams.

Sage healers themselves get various tools to protect against aoe damage. 1) An Impressive aoe heal 2) Spammable bubbles that can absorb a full aoe across a whole team. Another question is.. as a healer do you feel like you should be able to keep a group up that is being hit by 3-4 dps coordinating there attacks?

Now you are talking about group composition, this is a much different topic. 2 healers that are being protected by tanks, that not only have guard but a 30% damage reduction to anyone hitting that healer (with taunts of course) I hope will be tough to take down. 50% damage reduction + 30% damage reduced from taunts is a good amount, I do not know exactly how these stats work out number wise but either way that is a good amount of reduced damage.

Any good healer could easily heal through 10k damage dealt over numerous people. Most of the 500k+ damage games also have a healer on the opposing team healing for just as much.

I am not saying it is not useful, just the damage coming from aoe is a very inflated number.

Also fine with me, there are so many viable builds. Mainly sorcs just use hybrids because they are hands down better then the pure lightning/madness builds. This does not mean the other builds are not viable. The bubble itself is not a gamebreaker, only a small improvement to our overall survivability.

Reason 1: Any type of nerf I see coming will be against the sorcerers AOE ability, which is hardly a factor on winning, just shows an inflated damage stat that everyone is for some reason amazed about. Half the screenshots of 500k+ damage were done by a sorc just spamming chain lightning, death field the whole game which in reality doesn't help your team win. Most of these screen shots normally show the player actually losing with 500k+ damage done. Reason 2: I started the sorcerer class because I really enjoy the ranged damage perspective it offers. I dislike people rolling the class just based on the fact that they want face roll large inflated damage numbers in pvp games. Reason 3: Bioware isn't going to just simply nerf a class, they will change it so it is more viable in different ways (Operatives for example less damage.. more control), if this is less aoe damage and more single target damage I will take that any day. Less aoe damage and more control I will also take that. For the record, the most damage done in my guild was actually done by a bounty hunter, mainly because he knows his class like the back of his hand.

Personally I like the Lightning builds for pve a lot more then the standard 13/28. I have had numerous people show me that the damage output of 13/28 is higher then the lightning builds. Quite Frankly I do not see it at all, I respec'd 13/28 a few days ago for Karraggs HM and felt like I was gimped damage whys and utility why's. With the 13/28 for many of the fights you can just solely use force lightning, crushing darkness, affliction, and deathfield. Which number whys has higher damage output then the lightning builds. The lightning builds however are much more versatile: unlimited force means you can constantly spam chain lightning which on an instant cast does a good amount of damage, you can constantly throw bubbles on players for important fights (HM soa for example when eating the lightning bolts), can help off heal in critical situations, and for burn phases you can actually outburst the madness builds with the alacrity buff and other spam-mable abilities you can't do with Madness. (Madness builds have very consistent damage and cannot change rotation or you will run out of force very quickly) Personally from my experience I feel like the lightning builds do much more damage. People have proven this wrong with simulations though. My suggestion: try both builds and see which one you like better

try the lightning variants for pvp 23/18 25/16 lighting tree offers many ccs/survival abilities that go nicely in pvp he went 7 into corruption for the aoe bonus it offers. With half Battlemasters you should easily be able to hit 300k even with 13/28 A battlemaster sorc not able to hit 300k damage is a disgrace honestly.

Lightning effusion has not been working correctly since the latest patch for me. Can anyone else clarify this? Lightning effusion is the main sorc ability for my force regeneration for raiding, and without it I had to quickly change my rotation or I would go out of force.

You do understand that the simulation is extremely hypothetical, and in no way 100% accurate. You can not base these results on each boss fight, for each scenario, it is completely computer calculated and does not take into account many factors. According to your information you also incorrectly stated 00/13/28 >> 3/7/31 stating >> is saying something is "much greater than" and I find a 2% dps loss is hardly considered "much less than" the calculated numbers you proposed. Also the alacrity/surge/crit/power numbers are never going to match up. Most of the higher tier armor have high alacrity (and with the surge nerfs) will actually benefit lightning builds that are based off of cast times. A sorc with high alacrity can reduce the cast time of his full rotation when using lightning by 1-3 seconds. Which can drastically improve dps over a prolonged period because you are now finishing your rotations that much faster.

1. In a correct rotation you should only be using force lightning once for optimal dps. If you spam it trying to get wrath to proc you are losing overall dps. ~70% full cast is say 7/10 of your rotations proc wrath, that means 3/10 of your rotations require an extra force lightning. That's 15 times wrath doesn't proc if you go through 50 rotations in a prolonged fight out of your rotations. Which IMO is quite a dps loss, and shows that your rotation relies on wrath procing. 2. If you are using wrath just solely on crushing darkness you are doing something wrong in your rotations or just spamming force lightning constantly. Also you are not doing the optimal damage a sorc should be doing and getting carried by your group

I have tried all specs raiding whys and imo think the xx/31/xx has much more overall damage in prolonged pve fights. I am part of a core group that is currently 10/10 HM ops which I understand isn't amazing but just shows I have done a good amount of raiding as a sorc. Also please don't tell me you raid as 13/28.. The builds I have tried on 2mil+ bosses (1) 13/28 (2) 25/16 (3) 23/18 (4) 3/31/7 I'm not the type of person that likes to try one build that everyone on the forum says is the best... For pve (2) and (4) I have had the best results with.