Mycroft-Tarkin
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Posts posted by Mycroft-Tarkin
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I am sure these are ex-Ranked players. Since Ranked was removed, they cannot wintrade to win, therefore they are HACKING the game.
@JackieKo Bioware seriously needs to do something to stop these ex-Ranked players from ruining PVP. Maybe you could automatically give the 6 hour lockout to any ex-Ranked player who tried to queue, it would solve the issue.
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41 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:
I say kys once
You just lost all your credibility there. It is not okay to tell someone to kill themselves, even "once".
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8 hours ago, slowdude said:
You don't have to play a single ranked game to understand what ranked players are like. After all, all premades x5-8 are they. And they don't call it griefing, they call it a smart way to win. One could also assume that they saw toxicity and vote kick as a smart way to keep the bads/casusals away, and wintrade and synq as a smart way to guarantee top rewards.
Ranked was so toxic and dead, literally no one played Ranked. Also, both arenas and warzones regs are filled with Ranked players running full premades. I am very smart.
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1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:
first target every single round and being dead 90% of the time. I can very much see how thats not enjoyable
You correctly identify the issue. Why do Ranked players like to target new players? Are they too scared to go after other Ranked players? Or is it that the only way they can show their superiority is by targeting weak and frail people who aren't as skilled. That's toxic behavior which creates a negative environment. Good that Ranked was removed.
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2 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:
Now we're theorizing that they're smuggling players onto other teams just in case they need to throw the regs games? 😄
That's the only way Toxic Ranked players know how to win games.. None of them are good players and all their flairs, titles etc were 100% wintraded, which is why they need to sabotage the enemy team to win.
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Must be some Toxic Ranked players, they always used /stuck during Ranked to wintrade and throw games. Bioware needs to add 6 hour lockout for anyone using /stuck in PVP.
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10 hours ago, -Ashton- said:
What an absolute load of care bear rubbish.
You say “remove competition” . I’ve been playing mmo’s for twenty years and without doubt, it’s competition between players in both pvp and pve. That’s what keep mmos alive.
character development and players development are the lifeblood of mmos. You want to remove that, you may as well make this a single player game.
I say increase competition, increase rewards for objective play.
Same rewards for participating
BETTER rewards for winning.
you constantly dribble in your posts how BW will encourage positive play by removing competitive pvp. I say, push overs like you are encouraging a low population and will be the demise of this game if you continue to spout such utter BS
Toxic Ranked players like you is exactly the reason why Bioware deleted Ranked. This is why competition needs to be removed. This is not the Olympics, it is a video game that people play for fun. There is no reason to give different rewards to players based on their skill. If you want skill based rewards go play a real sport. 99% players play this game for Story and Space Barbie, and gating cosmetic rewards behind PVP skills does not give a Positive Experience for players who just want to make a good costume.
And before you forget, this is an MMORPG. Role Playing is in the name of the game itself. Imagine you played the whole story as a powerful Jedi, who defeated the Sith Emperor multiple times, has taken on armies by themselves, and suddenly you queue for a warzone and some random scoundrel is able to kill you over and over? That goes AGAINST my character's role play, and makes it a very negative experience to play the game.
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I agree. It is not a positive experience if players are punished for being less skilled. This is a game, not an examination where people receive grades for their performance. People play this for fun, and everyone should be rewarded for playing, otherwise it creates a negative experience.
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21 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:
What happens if certain matches go faster/slower than others? Or if someone DC's during the match?
Anyways, sorry prum but i just can't take you seriously as long as you have that silly 'sig' below your posts.
What is a prum?
And anyway, match length is irrelevant, players should get more medals if a game takes longer. If you play the maps correctly, the games will be close and obviously take longer to complete, right? Longer games should be rewarding. If it was rewarding shorter games instead, it will be like Toxic Ranked where in every single game, people just throw / wintrade to end games as soon as possible.
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Currently, there has been a lot of feedback/spam on this forum about the PVP update. Mainly, players feel like they are not being rewarded enough for their gameplay. They also feel that the current medals system awards the wrong kind of gameplay in PVP.
I have done a lot of research and have calculated the best solution to this.
I took inspiration from Llacertus' feedback (now removed, I think they deleted it because of all the hate from Ranked players). I do believe that that is a step in the right direction, and is how I arrived at my conclusions, which I have enumerated below.
The single best way to solve this problem: All current medals must be removed, and instead, award 1 medal for every 90 seconds inside a PVP match.
This would completely solve ALL the issues that players are currently facing, namely:
1. Toxic Ranked players tend to "number farm" in warzones. This leads to a negative experience for the non-toxic regs players who are trying to enjoy the game. My proposed change would eliminate any difference between toxic Ranked number farmers, and everyone else, as far the rewards are concerned. Everyone will be free to play PVP however they like, without creating a negative experience for other players.
2. This would eliminate the need to ever "quit" a warzone. There was a lot of hue and cry about the "strict" lockout for quitting a PVP game. However, my proposed system would encourage players to stay in the match until the end, thus eliminating the quitting problem. In fact, the only players who will quit are toxic Ranked players trying to manipulate games. Bioware can combat this by changing the initial lockout directly to 6 hours instead of 20 minutes.
3. Equality. Not every player is equally skilled. A new player who does not know how to play their class might not be able to get enough medals in the current system. This creates a negative gameplay experience for them. By using my proposed system, everyone receives the same amount of medals regardless of skill. There have been many posts where players complain about low winrate, which is causing them to take longer to complain their weeklies. Why should players be punished for being bad at the game? Making medals time-based would create a positive PVP experience for ALL players regardless of skill level or game knowledge, which is a major plus.
4. Map selection. A lot of players have been asking for a way to choose their selection of maps to play. Some players detest Huttball. Others detest Voidstar, and so on. My proposed solution would stop all those issues, since players can still be awarded equally even if they are playing a map they do not like. In fact, if they do not like a map so much that they would rather not play it, they can just afk in stealth in a corner. That is fine as well since a time-based medal system would still award them with the same number of medals as everyone else, and it won't punish the rest of the team either since they will also get an equal number of medals. Win-win situation for everyone.
5. Toxic competition would be removed. Bioware rightly identified that any competition creates a toxic and negative environment. This is why Ranked PVP had to go. Competition rewards skill, however that leads to less skilled players having a negative experience. With everyone receiving the same amount of medals, any toxicity that is caused due to competition will be removed. Everyone would be rewarded equally without any competition, thus creating a wholly positive PVP experience.
6. PREMADES. This is such a contentious issue these days. Solo players feel like they are at a disadvantage, because they have no friends. Using my proposed system, both solo and group players will earn rewards at an equal rate, further eliminating any need for social interaction. This will further increase the positive experience for the people who are not in premades.
Further, Bioware could also make it so that Subscribers gain medals at a rate of 1 medal every 60 seconds, compared to 90 for F2P. This would encourage PVPers to subscribe to the game, since currently there is not much reason for a PVPer to do so.
I would also like to note that most of the real feedback is diluted by Ranked players who are criticizing this update and finding all sorts of faults in it. I hope Bioware is able to realize that all the negative feedback is from Ranked players who are trying to destabilize the game, and should not be listened to. This update was a great one and will completely revive PVP. Quality of games has increased significantly, and queue times have decreased. PVP has never been so alive in SWTOR before.
I hope my suggestions will be duly considered and possibly implemented fortwith.
May the Force Be With You
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On 12/23/2022 at 12:47 PM, brennajoy said:
I grouped with 3 guildies and it took 3 hours to complete one warzone weekly and get only ¼ of the way through the arena weekly. 13 matches, 11 losses.
So you made a full premade and still lost almost all your games? How is this possible?
I blame Toxic Ranked players who have nothing better to do than try and "win" all the time. Bioware said they are trying to make PVP a Positive Experience, but losing games like this is not positive at all. At the very least, you should be able to progress the season the same amount regardless of loss / win. Let the Toxic Ranked players tryhard and get their "victory", but punishing other players for losing, by giving smaller rewards, is a bad thing.-
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Most likely toxic Ranked players manipulating the queue. Two players queue solo, and when the first player goes in and sees that their team is full, the other person does not take the pop, ensuring that his friend's opposing team is one player short.
The best way to combat this would be to add a strict lockout penalty for missing / declining a PVP pop.
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1 hour ago, Chryptyk said:
does the penalty kick in if you don't take a pop?
Unfortunately no, there is no penalty for not taking a pop. Players will start exploiting that once they figure out they can do this, so Bioware should definitely add a lockout for this too. It was required in Ranked in order to stop players from exploiting it, so it is needed in post 7.2 PVP as well to tackle any negative experiences that some players might create.
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I understand where you are coming from, however you need to understand that there are players of various skill levels playing PVP, who all deserve to progress in the season. There is always going to be one player who is the "worst" in the match. If there was some sort of matchmaking, then most likely, the team with the worst player is going to lose. This creates a very negative experience for that player. In order for PVP to be a positive experience, random teams allows everyone to win at a random rate, and no one will constantly lose games because they are bad.
Further, skill based matchmaking is a remnant of the Ranked system that SWTOR used to have. That system fostered a lot of toxicity and negativity. Since Bioware is trying to move as far away from that kind of environment as possible, they should try to keep current PVP as different as possible, in order to encourage positivity.
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Your experience is valid, however you can't stop players from playing what classes they want to. It isn't a problem of 2nd combat style, since people could simply play on a different class if that is what they wanted to. If there were restrictions on what class / role teams were made up of, people would not be allowed to freely play whatever they feel like, leading to a negative experience. In order for PVP to remain a positive experience, players should be allowed to play whatever class they want, and the game should not have any limits / balancing around that.
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12 minutes ago, Sir-steve said:
I'd argue that with ranked removed, penalties designed to curb toxic ranked behavior are no longer appropriate. Would appreciate some BW data demonstrating the lockout is successful at curbing undesirable activity. All we have so far is anectdotal evidence of legit players getting caught in the carpet bombing approach.
Or did they get rid of 'regs' and what we're left with is all ranked?
Bioware did not get rid of ranked or regs. It is a merger of both the systems, it is simply called PVP now, with a goal of being a positive experience. Thus, it is still necessary to have penalties and restrictions in order to prevent toxic behavior.
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1 hour ago, krackcommando said:
it sounds like you're talking AHG. interestingly enough, running the orbs is immaterial to winning the map. it's a red herring.
you win the map be controlling pylons and denying control to pylons. if your team is vastly more powerful than the other team, then you can control mid and run orbs. but then...you could just as easily double cap. so running orbs is just self-serving (to the individual who runs them).
picking up orbs and depositing them at the pylon does, ironically, lead to more medals. but the only way that helps your team win is when the teams don't understand how to play the map.
False information. Assuming both teams are equally skilled (as they are and should be), each team will control one pylon. In that scenario, running orbs is the only thing that will make a difference.
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1 minute ago, Nee-Elder said:
okay easy there prum , you're starting to go a bit overboard now with your umm 'cosplay'
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p.s. On-topic: i had a very fun experience today myself , in OPEN-WORLD PVP (the best kind , imo ) .... i was questing on new 'Ruhnuk' planet , in the PVP instance (as i play 99% of the time since forever) and all of a sudden a *stealther* (Sorc Assassin) popped out to ambush me & my Shae Vizla comp! Through a series of tricks & skills ( los'ing , well timed grenades, etc. ) i was able to barely kill this IMP player, even though i'm just a weakling Jedi Sage healer. Then, couple hours later, he/she found me in another map area and this time, after another solid fight, he prevailed. Afterwards he placed---you guessed it---Ranked FLAG onto my corpse.
But instead of being "toxic" , he complimented me in /say chat . So of course i then returned the same respect accordingly. And all was well in the galaxy.
What an interesting experience you had, and it just goes to show how this update has revitalized PVP. Previously, PVP instances would never have much activity in them. I'm sure you were the only (1) player in the entire instance. Now, on the planet that just released, there were 2 players in the PVP instance, making that a 100% population increase for PVP! If anyone had any doubt as to whether this update was good or not, this should make it all but clear.
P.S. on-topic, did you spot a new Combat Style?! (Sorc Assassin) was not a possible combo in the game. Bioware did mention during the launch for 7.0, that the new combat style system would let them bring new and exciting classes into the game. Are they finally delivering on that promise?!
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9 minutes ago, Crystal_Mind said:
As long as the game is unable to tell the difference between intentionally leaving a match vs. a disconnect or game crash, the LO system described above is completely draconian and inappropriate, especially for a casual game mode. 10-15-20 might be better, but ultimately while I understand the desire to punish 'quitting' a match, I'd rather people quit than go AFK off to the side (which is what happens when the LO period is longer than a match duration, btw).
But you are missing something very important. How can you tell the difference between an accidental DC / game crash, vs an intentional DC / game crash? Toxic Ranked players who love to exploit and manipulate PVP are experts at "faking" disconnects or game crashes. It is necessary to have a strict lockout, to discourage their toxic behavior, in order to make PVP a positive experience. Don't you agree?
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Instead of boosting everyone to max level, it would be more Equal if everyone was instead pushed down to a lower level, preferably level 10 since that is the minimum level you can queue for PVP. This would also remove any issues regarding class balancing, since classes at level 10 mostly have 3-4 abilities only. Bioware would also no longer need to balance around set bonuses or tacticals, since neither of those work at level 10.
This way, lower level players can compete with max level fully geared players without any statistical disadvantage. That would go a long way in making PVP a more positive experience for everyone.
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6 hours ago, Shwarzchild said:
7.2 has been, so far, a good experience for me personally. At this point in time, I'm quite happy with things. I would even go as far as to say I'm excited to get back home later today, and start queing to complete my second arena weekly after getting the two warzone weeklies out of the way yesterday.
Pre 7.2 I would have classified myself as a player too good to be in regs, but too inconsistent enough both in skill and time available to be a quality ranked player. I primarily raid in the game, so pvp was a secondary focus. When news of 7.2 dropped, I was....concerned? I did enjoy queuing for solo ranked in seasons past so the removal of that entire game mode did raise the ole eyebrow. Now that 7.2 is here, I actually am finding myself queuing as much as possible outside of my raid times when before ehhh.,.I was more raid logging than anything else. What I've also found out, and this is strictly as it applies to only me, I have started to understand why ranked pvp didn't take hold with me like it did others.
Ranked would always give me a level of anxiety I wasn't totally comfortable with which is more likely why I didn't que more for it, or if I did that desire was fleeting as time went on. Ranked by itself (excluding any real or perceived toxicity since I have never cared what people yelled about etc.) had some issues that now make more sense to me. The previous ELO system, strictly my opinion here, had a real flaw where losses where punished at what I would consider an extreme whereas wins were not rewarded at that same level of extremity. So the pressure to win was so high that it caused me that higher level of anxiety. Ranked also seemed to me to be a much more full time activity in game. It required effort and time to study your class(es), perfect strategies for dealing with different pressures from other composition of classes, or how you'll want to deal with certain classes etc. Since I am a raider first and foremost, I didn't have that full time ability to dedicate myself to that craft. But...being "too good" for regs meant that regs were boring and no fun so in reality, it was que for ranked or don't que at all. Queuing ranked meant that I had to pick the time of day to que, be overly conscience of winning and loosing, and potentially ending my time in game if say there were more of a certain class type in que that I was structurally a bad matchup for me no matter what. Now, I feel like with the removal of that specific ELO system I'm able to que as much as I may want. The anxiety is gone, and I can play for love of the game. I'm still super competitive in match, and still try to play perfectly no matter what. But...it feels more fun. I can que whenever I am free from real life burdens, and losses are not overweighting my game experience. So grand scheme of things for me has been overly positive. I've gone from queuing rarely to queuing daily, and logging in two to three days a week to everyday.
I do agree with the OP that the medal system seems a bit too hard, but on the other hand I'm actually happy that they are hard to get. It's the incentive to perform at that high level that works for me as the correct carrot. I would add to the OP's list of things that are negative by adding that the arena weekly at 24 seems too high. Doable sure, but can be argued it's too high. The season itself seems a bit limiting with the point cap (although I don't know what to do with this one. If no cap then people would finish it too quickly, and engagement would drop. So how to solve that? Maybe it's as simple as add more levels? Meh?)This was a very good writeup, thank you for saying this. Prior to the update, losing a match created a very negative experience. Since Bioware wants to make PVP a purely positive experience, in 7.2 everyone is able to get progress, regardless of whether you win or lose. As long as you play enough games, you can get the best rewards irrespective of your individual skill or knowledge of the game. This is a very egalitarian system and will definitely make PVP a much more positive experience for everyone.
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9 hours ago, Bullyabass said:
There are constant 6,7,8 person premades on SF
Match balance is pretty much impossible now. Regular players will all be in premades, new players or casuals will mostly be solo pugs and will get destroyed.
The only solution to this is to make a solo only queue which wont happen since it would mean devs admitting they called it wrong and that's not going to happen
This is a typical toxic Solo Ranked player mindset. This is a collaborative MMO game, people should be encouraged to go out and make friends, and to group up and play together with them. In the past, SWTOR had a "solo" queue in one part of PVP, which was Solo Ranked. As a result, that mode became a place of 100% manipulation, exploiting, and toxicity. The only way to move away from those negative experiences, is to remove any restrictions to playing with a group. That's exactly what update 7.2 did, and this will create a positive PVP experience.
27 minutes ago, Raazmir said:Pvp ran fine before season1 without a solo queue.
THANK YOU. If only people remember that 10 years ago, PVP in this game was perfectly fine without solo queue.
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58 minutes ago, Sir-steve said:
First up, been playing the new WZ weeklys on each server because a) I don't like the changes and b) when I don't like something I give it a chance. Out of 40+ matches I had my first game crash - it was not a 'DC', it was the full game crash preceded by the sound glitch. Log back in and yep, I have a lock out - 19 min left for leaving a match early. So on the one hand, the time is working right (Jackie noted it is wonky for some) but on the other hand....come on. Why on earth am I getting locked out for a game crash? Surely EA/BW have some smart people who can wizard up a way to tell the difference?
Side note, now that I've given it a chance, I likely won't be PvPing again. Which is a shame, I used to have fun playing it (though not terribly good at it).
You can thank the toxic Ranked exploiters for that. Those people are experts at exploiting and manipulating games, and would "fake" a game crash or server disconnect. In order for SWTOR PVP to be a positive experience, there has to be a way to combat those toxic players, which is why a lockout is necessary. In fact I think it should be 1 hour for the first offense, in order to deter those toxic players even more. That would ensure more positivity.
8 hours ago, Bullyabass said:The only people these lockouts will penalise are people with slow computers or bad connections
Yes, and you need to look at that from the team's perspective. When I am playing PVP, if someone in my team has a slow computer and bad connection, they are effectively creating a negative experience for the other 7 members on my team. They will have bad ping, slow loading, slow respawn, frame drops which make them ineffective in right clicking a node etc.
Since 7.2 aimed to turn PVP to a purely positive experience, this kind of player who brings negative experiences should rightfully be locked out, no?
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Just now, Torun said:
The message clearly said I was voted out. That is a function of the PUG. Since I have been grouping since the beginning, I trust I am familiar with the game mechanics. Making assumptions doesn't serve anyone well.
Well then your points do not add up. You claim to be kicked out while loading into the warzone, by a VOTE KICK.
However, vote kick is NOT possible until the match has started, and the barriers go down.
1 HOUR LOCKDOWN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT TILL MY RAVAGE WAS OVER AND QUIT???
in PvP
Posted
The lockouts are perfectly reasonable, and necessary in order to stop players from quitting games whenever they feel like. Ranked players like you want the lockout removed so you can exploit and wintrade games. IMO it should be 6 hours right on the first violation, 20 minutes is too lenient.