Simply don't care about what he said. These categories were designed to make sure that the specs in a category deal approx. the same amount of damage. And there's no reason to be more precise than that - i.e. also defining the ranking within these categories - simply because these are DPS nuances even the best design team can't foretell. Likewise, there's no need to publish the precise target DPS goal, simply because it varies. Fighting a 500k dummy might give you a different result than fighting a 4m dummy, and so on. All BioWare would have achieved by publishing a precise number is that they would have made themself too assailable. Even if they would use a purely mathematical approach, it wouldn't be perfect. The difficulty to achieve this goal might still vary. There might be certain 'exploits' (f.e. clipping) that alter the DPS result or there might be practical issues like double-clicking to position an AoE or delays due to a Trickshot / Followthrough being resetted only after damage was dealt. And like BioWare stated, this patch was purely about the DPS score and not about defensive abilities. I.e. the devs nerfed Arsenal not because it has excellent DCDs, but to bring them down to the intended target DPS score / category. Otherwise BioWare would have renounced their own intentions to establish DPS balance for PvE fights f.e.. So to sum it up: Madness Sorcerer would have definitely needed a more powerful buff, whereas Marauders and Operatives would have deserved to be nerfed. What WayOfTheWarriorx usually does is to emphasize the differences in what tools each spec uses to stay alive... and he does so in a very Marauder-friendly way. Which - of course - is ok as long as you play a Marauder, but not so if you play any other spec. In many cases, it ends up in a discussion about definition, not about applicability or effectiveness. F.e. if a Marauder uses Undying Rage to survive Blaster's Rain of Bombs attack, to interrupt Master's Ion Cuttor or to block any damage from Ruugar's self-destruct droids (even multiple ones), it's more than other specs could hope to achieve. But it doesn't mean it has to be the main argument for everyone. Likewise, you'll find enough parses showing that Annihilator Marauders can recover more than 30k HP every 10s in a PvE fight without loosing a single point of DPS. But even if 'attacking' is a very common thing in any fight - especially in a PvE boss fight without other objectives -, it's still possible to focus yourself on different aspects or to value the option to spend GCDs on a Dark Heal above it. In other words, sometimes you simply don't share the same basis for a good communication (like some users might not share my love for rotations without base attacks). So you have to accept it as one opinion and hope that the developers have their own one.

Positioning has nothing to do with that. It's simply a question whether a skill is still valueable in both PvE and PvP, if it will be interrupted most of the time. That's nonsense. They added more damage reflect abilities because that's the easiest way to force players to switch targets, thereby preventing ganks or that certain classes are always killed first. That's absolute nonsense. Let's say they would improve the energy management. How many years would it take until only 1 spec will be left? So it's essentially as silly as stating that better filter option for the GTN would ruin the market.

No. Base attacks exist, because that's what you use on your first few levels. At that time, you don't have enough other skills you could use instead. But the more levels your character gets, the more skills are unlocked and the more energy management improvements are received. And my point is that as soon as you have 7 other attack skills to choose from, a high skill-to-skill interaction that makes your spec unique and quite a few DCDs as well, it's kind of silly to enforce the use of your very first basic attack. It simply diminishes the uniqueness of every class. A Pyrotech f.e. relies almost exclusively on fire attacks. To force the class to use the base attack ruins this flavor. In fact, your base attack might even have a completely different sound than the rest of your skills. But yaeh, your opinion is the only one that counts....

Except that they aren't Marksmanship snipers. So.....

See. You first asked me why I came up with StarParse when you were referring to the HPS score... and later you used StarParse to support your claim and stated: "stats don't lie". The truth however is: stats do lie! I.e. the HPS score on parsely doesn't include damage absorption. I.e. you can't trust the operation leaderboard. This of course doesn't mean that the recent nerf was perfectly balanced. Currently, I can't match the efficiency of my Commando healer either. But I still want BioWare to balance healers based on their overall efficiency, not just on the HPS score. And preferrably, I don't want to use Static Barrier on myself just to fake my HPS score (thanks to Corrupted Barrier). Well, that depends on many things. So I wouldn't use it an argument. If you have a 16M operation, you should have more healers as well. I.e. the number characters a healer is responsible for might not change that much. Of course, there might be other issues with proper positioning and/or overheal, but the Sorcerer AoE isn't what worries me most. As a Commando healer, it seems chances are much higher that my kolto bomb won't hit everyone I'd like it to. So even if it has a lower CD, I still believe it isn't that effective. And the channeled kolto wave isn't my favorite either. So I still prefer Revivification, even if the heals are now like 900 HP instead of 1000 HP per tick. I assume the StarParse ranking doesn't include damage absorption because the HPS results match those on parsely and the latter clearly doesn't include it. But feel free to go to the 'log view' and show me how much a Static Barrier has absorbed. In regard of BioWare (Eric & co): I simply assume that there's at least a bit of sanity & dignity left. And that means I hope they balance classes on their true effectiveness, not just on the HPS socre. And if you keep in mind that they've nerfed Static Barrier as well, they at least seem to care about these values as well. No, no. If you read my last reply carefully, I mentioned both your statement and the one you were responding to.

And do you thereby state that this should be ok for every player? First of all, what's your point talking about the rotation? Furhermore, every parse you'll find already includes Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override. And making 1 skill every 90s free of cost via Thermal Sensor Override or approx. 3~4 via Vent Heat isn't what I would call an "excellent tool to squeeze out some extra damage". But please feel free to calculate the additional DPS during common NIM challenges. Let's take Styrak or Revan's core. Actually, the classes with a proper rotation are a minority. Even those who are believed to have a rotation at the first glance, don't necessarily have one, like Arsenal. But sure, go ahead and show me some numbers that prove that DPS classes with priority list are the players' favorite. And it's kind of funny tthat on one hand you highlight that it wouldn't be such a DPS benefit, but one the other you have no problem talking about "squeezing out some extra damage" by keeping an eye on your heat management. And of course, that's ecactly what players should do and what makes a game great, right? - Taking care of the heat management. Because if I were to choose, I'd definitely prefer not to care about heat management as long as I don't use any AoEs. And I want my Vent Heat & Thermal Sensor Override to be ready in case some mobs appear rather than being forced to add Rapid Shot to my skill bar and keeping an eye on my heat, just to be able to replace a Rapid Shot or two every now and then. Are you sure you know what you're talking about. Go and check again how Reflexive Armor interacts with the close-&-personal energy refund. And I guess you must be one of those guys who can't get out of Master/Blaster AoEs just to improve their heat management. Because if I take this parse as an example.. close-&-personal was triggered an amazing 10 times over the course of 7 minutes (429.91s). I,e. 1 Rapid Shot could be replaced by a Mag Shot.... wow!

Well, then your calculation wasn't correct. Or did you find any mistakes in the one I did?

Because they don't give a damn and hate simplicity. See, how they stated that Enginieers are quote "swimming in energy" although their rotation is lacking at least 12 energy. Or look how they lowered the coolodwn of Deadly Onslaught without realizing that one spec has a passive that lowers it again. And then see how they overdid the energy management fixes for Madness... For them, It simply doesn't matter.

I don't understand why BioWare introduces such a crap. Completed the weeklies with multiple characters and didn't get a single Isotope. So was there someone at BioWare who thought "A sure drop, that's awfully fair. Let's change that!" or can someone please explain me the reason for that change...

Dummy parses don't necessarily correlate with the performance in operations. First of all, the most significant DPS loss is character death. So in order to defeat a boss you have to make sure, everyone stays alive. And that means, the foremost task of everyone is to understand the mechanic well enough to minimize the damage taken. Most of the failed attempts to defeat bosses like Revan, Master/Blaster, Torque, The Underlurker, Coratanni, etc. don't occur due to class-specific DPS differences but due to an improper way to handle the mechanic. The second most relevant part is to minimize the downtime and to keep your rotation going.. And that's far from just a melee issue. It's how you handle Revan's stacks & bombs or how you handle the different phases in a fight against Draxus. If an Arsenal's Blazing Bolt f.e. is interrupted because it was used the moment the character is kicked or tripped, it's a significant DPS loss. And this is actually the main reason why the results don't match the assumptions. The best parses for Guardians/Juggernauts are: 10,391 for Vigilance/Vengeance 10,227 for Focus/Rage (although not played much) The best parses for Sentinels/Marauders are: 10,614 for Watchman/Annihilation 10,567 for Combat/Carnage The best parses for Commando/Mercenary were: 10,340 for Gunnery/Arsenal 10,677 for AS/IO (although not played much) Now there are over 3 million samples showing that the melee classes deal equal or more damage than the chosen ranged class, although they have the same potential DPS. But shouldn't these two melee classes be 5~10% below the DPS score of the ranged burst spec? I mean that's the reason why it was nerfed by approx. 10%, right? ... to balance them down until they achieve the same DPS in operations than melee classes. And the 364,000 samples of Sage / Sorcerer DDs prove how perfectly balanced they will be compared to the extremely disadvantagous melee specs, right? But sure, you can now join the reasoning of other users on this forum and state that 3 million samples prove nothing and that these 989,000 Commandos are all just a bunch of idiots who can't play their class properly and the 902,000 Guardians & Sentinels are simply the embodiment of flawlessness. Because you know, if the statistic doesn't support the claim, the statistic must be wrong. So according to you, the sustained specs - i.e. both Gunslinger/Sniper specs have to perform worse than Gunnery / Arsenal - a ranged burst spec. It's a nice coincidence that in StarParse over >90% of the Commando samples are from Gunnery and >80% of the Gunslingers are DoT & semi-DoT specs: The best parses for Commando/Mercenary were: 10,340 for Gunnery/Arsenal The best parses for Gunslinger/Sniper were: 10,674 for Saboteur/Engineer 10,914 for Dirty Fighting/Virulence And what do the results show? A clear disadvantage for the DoT specs? No! actually an advantage of up to 5% for the DoT specs. Although I agree that PvP is far more complex than PvE, I wouldn't state that it's impossible or even worse, wishing the developers would stop trying to improve balance. It's still possible to start with a normal 1on1 scenario without any slows & CCs and see how these classes perform. You can then add more and more effects and see how things change. In most cases, variety often leads to averageness and you have way more tools to adjust things. F.e. although a leap or charge is useless in PvP, adjusting the damage, cooldown and side-effects can help to improve PvP balance. And the best concept of all. Give classes different roles in the battle. That way, they don't have to be good in any aspect of a fight, but they can shine in their particular one.

You mentioned HPS values. Due to the fact that Static Barrier is not a heal, it might not be included in the final HPS score ... like the ones you see on StarParse. But in order to compare the effectiveness of Sorcerers to other healers - especially in regard of the HM/NIM operations you've mentioned, you have to calculate it in. I focused my response not in direct response to the words you've chosen in your reply - and it's kind of presumptuous to assume that - but rather on your reply as a whole. And since you're so demanding in regard of my response, let me tell you that statements like "but Sorcs' healing just become nearly impossible to equal Mercs' and Operatives' HPS" are completely useless if you cannot prove your claim. So feel free to provide a reliable prove of your statement without referring to StarParse! Because as it seems, BioWare's metric told them that Sorcerers were better than the other two healing specs, which then leads to this statement: The rest of the changes for Corruption Sorcerers / Seer Sages all have one singular goal: wrangling their HPS down to the healing target while maintaining the Corruption / Seer playstyle with which players have become familiar. So both your statement about "nearly impossible" as well as this statement: "And sorc heals should put out less healing than others considering how easy they are to play decently" seem to be unfounded. But wait, guess what: You use StarParse to prove your claim. Knowing that these numbers - as I've stated - don't include any damage absorption.

No. Resplendence only cares about the number of critical hits. It doesn't matter if you deal them within 2.16s or within 2.43s. Healing Trance still hits the same number of times => 4x.

Can you publish your parse on parsely? That way it would be easier to check whether your calculation was correct or not. I'll take this parse for the moment, because it has the same 10,315 DPS you've achieved. Lowering the crit. damage bonus from 30% to 15% results in a 11.54% DPS loss of the critical damage (1 - (1.15/1.3)) (The DPS loss should even be lower than that thanks to Advanced Targeting. But let's ignore that) Mag Shot 365,293 damage | 56.82% crit. chance = 207,560 crit. damage || 23,949 damage lost Power Shot 95,141 damage | 41.67% crit. chance = 39,645 crit. damage || 4,574 damage lost Thermal Detonator 133,594 damage | 54.55% crit. chance = 72,876 crit. damage || 8,409 damage lost Unload 235,476 damage | 48.75% crit. chance = 114,795 crit. damage || 13,246 damage lost Incendiary Missile burn 134,932 damage * 0.1 = 13,493 damage lost Serrated Bolt bleed 128,296 damage * 0.12 = 15,396 damage lost Total 79,067 damage lost over 145.904 sec = a loss of 542 DPS Old DPS 10,315 New DPS 9,773 Your rotation might be different and result in a different DPS loss, but that's a score that should be doable. And these are the results of a few other post-patch parses.

I guess he meant the 75% force/tech damage reduction you can get by choosing the right utility? Sure, let's discuss if the 3% HPs recovered by an upgraded Shoulder Cannon is more a 'heal' than to recover health on every attack that consumes rage via Thirst for Rage.. let's then discuss whether 4x 3% every 180s is more efficicent than 1% every other attack. And let us discuss which class should be considered more a "true DPS" class, the one that has a spec centered around heals or a class that has no heal-centric spec. Oh and we could then also discuss whether a skill that tries to keep you at 35% HP is more powerful than a skill that absorbs 99% of the damage... and we can then add this to the discussion which class should be considered or is supposed to be a 'glass cannon' or a "true DPS" class. But more about that below. Now it's really silly. First, the 30% stun DR has a 4s duration in most situations. And not every CC is a stun. So it's just as silly as referring to the 100% defense while using Mad Dash every 35s? Second, Marauders can choose the masterful utility Defensive Roll to get a 30% AoE DR as well and unlike the Powertech variant, it's not limited to a single spec. Ah, now we're down to 3% DR effects to prove a point. Well, let's see... what about up to 6% DR via Frenzied Sabers (Carnage) plus the 2% DR via Force Vigor - both not just against melee/ranged attacks. Or what about Furious Defense (Fury) that grants +10% defense for 6s every 9s. Or what about the constant 3% DR via Shii-Cho Form or the 5% DR via Blood Guard (Annihilation)? Ok, first of all, a 15% speed boost is essentially useless if you wish to kite or counter a kite. There are way better options that slow a target by 30%, 50% or even more. Second, contrary to Hydraulic Override, Predation starts with a 50% speed boost for 10s which can them be improved to 80% as well. Oh and it even grants +10% melee/ranged defense for 10s. And whereas the Powertech gets a speed boost after a charge, the Marauder is able to leap a second time. How is this different to a 'beat down' (all three Marauder specs), an 'assailable' (Annihilation), a 'sundered' (carnage) or an 'overwhelmed' (fury) debuff? Which is the same with: Overwhelm, Interceptor, Subjugation and Maiming Reach. Well, although this statement is actually holds some value, it's still worth pointing out that all the Marauders have Twin-Saber Throw, a 30m line AoE that takes 18s to cool down. So I wouldn't point fingers on Thermal Detonator, a skill that has a delayed effect (which is probably the reason why BioWare kept the 30m range). Which is just a stale argument. Ok, let's replace the 8s Kolto Overload that does nothing above 35% HP with a 4~6s Undying Rage that grants 99% DR, just because the former implies a constant 'heal' rather than a complete absorb. Let's then replace the Close-&-Personal passive with either a 3% elemental/internal DR or a Cloak of Pain and let's see how many Powertechs would be complaining. Personally, I would prefer a 99% DR over a 70% Kolto Overload anytime. But I'm not the one claiming a fluctuating health bar makes a class less a DPS class than taking no damage at all. Oh and please send me a vid where you see the Close-&-Personal heals, because according to you it's something completely different than damage reduction! To sum it up Powertechs are in a severe need for a massive defensive buff. First of all, they are missing a powerful DCD that reduces the incoming damage by a high percentual amount in order to be useful both in PvE to survive deadly attacks (orbs, etc.) or in PvP to survive a gank. Second, they are lacking a second 'hard' DCD that achieves at least 50% damage reduction or that grants a powerful protection against a specific type of damage. This can either be achieved by improving existing passives (like Sonic Defense or Coolant to 50%) or by introducing new ones. Third, they need a 'lose interest - switch target' skill, i.e. either an escape, a damage reflect or an overly protective skill that makes opponent focusing a different class. This doesn't necessarily have to be a separate skill on it's own, but there has to be a way to handle unfavorable conditions.

Oops. You're right. I mixed these two aspects up. I apologize.

As I've said multiple times now. Just because Force Armor / Static Barrier cast on different players won't boost your HPS score in StarParse doesn't mean BioWare should only care about this third party program. Maybe it would be a smart move from BioWare, if they would alter the log file entries to include the Force Armor / Static Barrier results as well, but I hardly doubt that they're willing to spend a single cent on that. I even believe Keith, Eric & co. are mainly responsible for the last class balance, not some full-time developers.

First of all, your tanks are responsible that the boss will focus them. If they run their normal taunt rotation (taunt + threatening scream + taunt), there's a 18s window in which the boss won't focus anyone else. But even if you think you have to use Force Camouflage to lower your threat, that's typically needed only once per fight. In other words, the skill can be used as a normal DCD later during the fight. _________ And although I had this discussion with WayOfTheWarriorx already, let me repeat my point of view. Ths skill has a varable length of up to 6s (thanks to Phantom - a masterful utility). And the main advantage of the skill is it's versatility. I.e. unlike other DCDs that have a narrow focus, it can be used in many different ways. F.e. you can use it in PvP to block some damage spikes (f.e. a Sniper's Ambush, etc.) and it can even be a better lifesaver than Undying Rage thanks to the invisibility. An Undying Rage can be answered by a simple 4s root, stun or push/pull, something that can't happen with Force Camouflage. And thanks to the 4~6s speed boost, there is enough time to get out of the 30m range or to use it as a gap closer against Snipers or other ranged classes. I've even seen some Marauders who used Force Camouflage to tap an objective during a chaotic situation. In PvE, it's basically a powerful DCD against any foreseeable damage (getting out of a Blaster's Rain of Bombs, Firebrand & Stormcaller bombs, Brontes orbs, etc.) And the speed boost can be used to lower the downtime in a fight against Operator IX, Dash'roode, etc. _________ But let's get to the original question: Does it make sense flavorwise? - IMO Not that much, but it depends on other aspects! The biggest problem is that there are many things in SWTOR that don't really make sense. So it's hard to limit it down to a single skill. In my opinion, even the overall concepts of Shadows, Marauders and Juggernauts aren't that great to begin with. IMO, it makes no sense that Assassins and Shadows are connected to Sages/Sorcerers. Let's start with the stories. It would have made more sense, if the protective guardians would have shared the healing & negotiation heavy storyline of a Sage and if the Shadows would have shared the destruction & doomsday weapon storyline of a Sentinel. Likewise, it would have made more sense if Assassins would have had the storyline centered around a 'spy network', whereas Juggernauts should have had the story around the controversy/dualism between brawn and brain, i.e. Khem Val and Zash. With this change, there would have been a much better distinction between all four adv. classes. For the Juggernaut/Sorcerer constellation, it would have been active rage vs. insidiousness & madness. On the light side, it would have been active guarding/protection vs. cautiousness & responsiveness. And for the Assassin/Marauder and Shadow/Sentinel constellation, it would have been stealth & precision vs. speed & reflexes. But not only that, even the weapon limitations would have made more sense. Single blade combat on one side, either either dual or double-bladed weapons on the other. And without a connection to Sages/Sorcerers, Shadows/Assassins could have had a focus on close-range saber combat rather than on levitating rocks or psychokinetic stuff. And that brings me back to Force Camouflage: With such a class constellation, this skill would have had a completely different meaning. And most likely, it would have been a perfect match for Assassins. For Sentinels & Marauders, it would have made way more sense to get Saber Ward, Saber Reflect. & Blade Turning rather than a Cloak of Pain, Force Camouflage & Undying Rage. Sentinels / Marauders are the class that thrives for an open battle and is trained well for it. So it should have the best defenses against melee/ranged attacks, but should have a weakness against 'magic', i.e. weakening / influencing force powers, poisons, etc. For the Guardian / Sage constellation, we would have had: Blade Storm vs. Disturbance Force Sweep vs. Forcequake Force Pull vs. Force Wave Dispatch vs. Project Guard vs Revival Guardian Leap vs. Rescue Guarded by the Force vs. Force Barrier Force Potency vs Force Mend Warding Call vs. Force Armor Challenging Call vs Mass Mind Control Resilence vs. Mental Defense & Pacify Awe vs Mind Maze and/or Force Lift For the Shadow / Sentinel constellation, we would have had: Shadow Strike vs. Zealous Strike Spinning Strike vs. Blade Barrage Force Camouflage vs. Saber Reflect Shadow Stride vs. Force Leap Phase Walk vs. Blade Blitz & Zealous Leap Force Cloak vs. Battle Readiness Precision vs. Mental Alacrity (Double) Saber Throw vs. Twin Saber Throw But that's just a mind game and will never ever happen. On a direct skill-based analysis, there's simply no other skill that would give the Marauder the same flexibility as a Force Camouflage. You want to give every class a anti-gank skill and you want to give 'squishier' classes at least one Escape, no matter if their class trope is a 'glass cannon' or not. Most fights aren't about fair & equal conditions for both sides. So to give players a chance to survive a unfavorable fight, there has to be at least one skill that can get them to safety. So switching Force Camouflage with either Resilence or Saber Reflect won't work that well. The former means you'd have to remove other CC immunities and adjust Operatives, and the latter means you would have to give Juggernauts the Cloak of Pain reflection as well as other benefits. So the best chances might be to introduce a utility that keeps the benefits of a Force Camouflage up for like 2s after the invisibility ends (a bit like the Sniper's Hold the Ground utility). Maybe at the cost of the +2s duration utility or the 75% force/tech DR via Obfuscate. That would shift the focus a bit more on combat, without removing the versatility of the skill and without affecting anything else.

That's nonsense, But guess what. Subscribers playing Sorcerers want Sorcerers to be improved, subscribers preferring PvP want the cost of the top tier gear to be reduced and subscribers running operations want sure drops and legacy-wide gear. It's just natural that players focus on their favorite aspect. But there's barely any f2p user stating that he want an apsect to be completely free of cost. F.e. a comman request is to bring operation passes back. That's a huge difference from stating operations ought to be free for all. Personally, I can only state that due to BioWare's business model, they've lost some money. Most friends of mine are casual players. And that means they are willing to invest some money, but they won't pay a constant fee. Others don't have a regular 9-to-5 job and can play games only sporadically and aren't willing to pay for 2 months in advance. So due to the fact that BioWare focuses heavily on constant subscribers, they lost these people as customers. If they were to choose between returning to SWTOR or buying a budget game on STEAM, they'll most certainly choose the latter. There, you don't have the "software as a service" crap. Instead it's up to you and your friends to decide when you have time to play. In fact, most of my friends have bought games they've never even touched. But due to the extreme differentiation between preferred players and subscribers, even if they would come back to SWTOR, there's not even a chance they would fall in love with this game again. I.e. there's no way to get them even back to a subscription. F.e. if you become a preferred player, the game does everything to piss you off. You must select the characters you want to activate, you can't see how many credits you have, you lose some skill bars, you have to decide what crafting professions you want to keep, you might not be able to equip the gear you've spent weeks or months to obtain, IIRC BioWare even removed mods from the gear, you have fewer travel options and you get a constant reminder that you're either close to the credit cap or exceeded it and the credit cap is too low to get anything that you might enjoy and might convince you to stay. So even before it's about access to "end-game content" or not, BioWare already did their best to make it clear that these players aren't welcome. And there's no way to get these player interested in "end-game content" because they aren't allowed to even try it out or participate once.

My point is: I'm tired of the reasonless whining of certain classes and I'm sick of the stupid, mindless fixes from BioWare, basically only spoon-feeding their whales. Even if Madness is missing 30 force points per 18s rotation (16s with alacrity), it still takes 20 rotations (approx. 320s) of non-stop fighitng (so no Revan stairs, etc.) before they run out of energy. But still, that's considered a total tragedy, right? But if IO is missing 18 energy per rotation in order to deal optimal damage, meaning that they run out of energy within 5 rotations, BioWare isn't even blinking. Why? Because noone threatened to quit the game and the latter got used to a crappy Rapid Shot. Now guess what BioWare does; They improve Force Lightning until it recovers 28 energy per use... i.e. it recovers even more than doing nothing!!! And should I now compare the damage of Force Lightning and Rapid Shot? And why do they do this? Because BioWare doesn't give a damn about balance or conceptual design! And it's the same thing with these AoEs. Rather than fixing the real issue - the 600 force point reserve - they do whatever other crap they can come up with. ________ But let's see: Suppr. Fire: avg. hit = 2030.31 | avg. crit = 3443.54 Hail of Bolts: avg. hit = 2118.88 | avg. crit = 3920 Force Storm: avg. hit = 2310.27 | avg. crit = 3969.27 Force Storm is - btw - the only skill that deals tech/force damage! So the only reason why Force Storm deals less damage than a Hail of Bolts is because it's missing the initial hit. Hail of Bolts: 4x 3,019.5 = 12,078 => 6,039 damage per GCD Force Storm: 3x 3,139.5 = 9,418.5 => 4,709 damage per GCD And if you look at the total amount of AoE damage a class can dish out before it runs out of energy: Sniper: 4x 8,211 = 32,844 damage Mercenary: 5x 6,039 = 30,195 damage Sorcerer: 20x 4,709 = 94,180 damage But that totally balanced, right? And due to the fact that the new Force Lightning will restore 28 pts and a Force Storm consumes 30 pts, the class will soon be able to spam their AoE almost indefinitely as long as the player switches between these two skills. THAT's the solution BioWare's intellectual elite came up wth!

If the tanks have used all their DCDs and medkits and neither my co-healer nor I have a more potent heal ready, I doubt a 9k heal after 1.35s will keep them alive. That's silly. First, DPS classes have more skills to choose from than healers. Second, Dark Infusion is a skill unique to this spec (unlike Explosive Round). So sure, let's give every DPS spec at least one skill unique to them they won't use! Third and this is the most important aspect: According to you, a Vortex Bolt / Priming Shot must deal more damage than a Demolition Round / Heatseeker Missile because it takes longer to cool down. However, my point of view is that it's more important to keep all the skills in question valuable. In case of damage dealers, it doesn't necessarily include all the skills (although a more reasonable damage wouldn't hurt either). But to make 2 out of 7 heals useless, is just plain stupid. And if you care that much about the cooldown, there's a simple way to change that as well: Innervate: 70 force cost | 0s cooldown Dark Heal: 40 force cost | 6s cooldown (more HPS than Innervate) Dark Infusion: 60 force cost | 9s cooldown (more HPS than Dark Heal) And it would actually make sense since Sorcerers are currently the only healer spec that don't have a cooldown on either the 1.5s or the 2.5s skill. A Merc's Advanced Medical Probe has a 12s CD and Kolto Probe a 9s CD. And an Innervate without cooldown would be like a Diagnostic Scan, except that it would be more potent and would consume more 'energy'. The advantage: Innervate could still be used whenever it's currently used, but both Dark Heal and Dark Infusion would be valuable again. And it would be simple to let a different skill generate Force Surge stacks, if that's considered a problem. ____ But that's not the only possibility: And here, I can only repeat myself and point to the Force Mobility utility. What if this utility would make Dark Heal usable on the move instead of Innervate, just like the Sniper's Hot Pursuit / Calculated Pursuit makes the Charged Bursts / Snipe usuable on the move? Such a simple change and suddenly a Dark Heal becomes way more appealing. In addition, it would remove the mobility advantages a Sorcerer has over the other 2 specs. And like I already stated in previous replies, I would have had no problem - no I would have actually appreciated it - if the devs would have made Boltstorm / Full Auto a skill without a cooldown and would have made the Grav Rounds / Charged Bolts the one with a cooldown instead. Hail of Bolts - basically the AoE variant of Full Auto - can be used successively, so why has the single target variant a cooldown? How stupid is that? If this class ought to be an Assault Cannon class, support this theme, let players use their toy and make the channeling skill available all the time. Show me the Dark Heal every 12s in this parse. Or tell me how this parse could have been better if it would included more Dark Heals or Dark Infusions. That's nonsense. It would mean noone will see an instant cast Dark Heal either. That's quite a silly explanation. You can use Resurgence three times per 18s. So there are more than enough Force Bending stacks to make Roaming Mend jump over instantly. And if you use a stack to lower the cost of Revivification, you saved yourself 20~22 force points at the cost of a ~20% higher HPS for Innervate, ie. approx. 4.6k per use. And in most cases, you would still have one stack left. So judge by yourself whether foregoing 4.6k damage outbalances the force cost you've saved. Why would they want to prevent the 'double tap', if they nerf the skill the way they do. It will deal approx. 11k per jump, i.e. 22k in case of a double tap. A Progressive Scan heals the first target by approx. ~24k, but must be channeled a bit longer. And Innervate will probably restore 27k on a single target, but it must be channeled even longer than a Progressive Scan (unless you use Polarity Shift). And I don't want to argue whether the removal of the +5% bonus via 'Secrets of the Dark Side' was necessary or not, but to lower the force cost for Roaming Mend takes into consideration that it's a 1 GCD skill (unlike Innervate) and doesn't affect as many targets as Revivification.

Like I stated in the original thread, the problem is that Madness - considered a 'sustained spec' - is still ~500 pts below the stated DPS goal.

That's nonsense. Sure, no game will achieve perfect balance, so there will be the best DPS class, the best tank class or the best healer. And the same way, there will always be classes that are considered 'easier' or more 'favorable' for certain apsects. But none of that is intentional or set in stone. F.e. if you compare the potential AoE damage of all three healer specs, the Sorcerer is clearly outstanding. And I doubt it has a significant damage deficit.

The 5.3 patch was never about 'fairness' or 'balance'. Instead, it's mainly about lowering the surge bonuses (to lower the max. damage values you see in PvP), as well as nerfing the Engineering AoE and the Sorcerer heals. To give this patch the touch of an overall balance, BioWare then tweaked a few 'easy' numbers. Lethality isn't addressed because it would take more than just nerfing a few DoTs by 10%. And they can't nerf Carnage because the melee classes were the ones complaining in the first place and the most problematic skill - Ferocity - would have to be like this: "The next 2 single-target direct damage attacks have 100% armor penetration. Lasts for 10s"... but that's more complex than changing some existing numbers. BioWare doesn't care, because AS/IO players don't threaten to cancel their subscription. To give Madness an overly forgiving energy management is BioWare's response to the negative player feedback... that's all. Most classes do have a negative energy management and with the exception of Sorcerers, they all have a 100~110pts total energy reserve. That means, every point missing is quite painful. But guess which class doesn't have a 'low energy penality'? Let's look at some AoEs: Merc - Sweeping Blaster: 32e base cost - 15e base regen. = 17 effective cost every 3s Sniper - Suppressive Fire: 45e base cost - 22.5e base regen. = 22.5 effective cost every 4.5s Sorcerer - Force Storm: 54e force cost - 24e base regen. = 30 effective cost every 3s So whereas the former two classes can use their AoEs 4~5 times before they run out of energy, Sorcerers can use their Force Storm 20 times. THAT's BioWare's idea of balance. CXP are a way to improve characters without being forced to raise the character level... that's all. And it means, characters perform better than before as the additional tiers of gear aren't included in the level sync of HM / NIM operations. In order to buff other healers, it would require them to be in a bad position. But the opposite is the case. Furthermore, 5.0 was mainly a survivability improvement, which means healers should have less effort to keep the other classes alive. And last but not least: If BioWare would really care about PvE and not just PvP, they would have fixed the tank classes as well. Let's check the StarParse metrics. There, you have over 3 million samples that are summed up in a DPS ranking.

Just limit the trigger rate of both Trauma Regulators and Responsive Safeguard to once per second. This would make both skills more comparable to other defensive skills and would remove the silly - "the merc gets 4 stacks if your skill hits 4 times per use" issue. Everything should be much better with such a simple change. But could it be that this class balance is done by non-developers who can't add such a simple fix to the corresponding file? The impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS wasn't that much about Seer/Corruption. But feel free compensate every stealth class (as well as Marauders) for their 'loss of DPS' while hidden. Alternatively, feel free to cause a 'DPS loss' for every other class by giving them all a 8s immunity bubble (like Sawbone Scoundrels / Medicine Operatives) Sure, if you use a base cost of 40 force points, substract 10% (= 4pts) via Inner Strength / Electric Induction and then substract the 48 force points regenerated via Psychic Barrier / Sith Efficacy , you achieve the -12 pts overall cost. But that's not even the point! It's about the net gain compared to the current situation: To let the skill restore 8% of total force per use results in a net gain of +24 force points per use compared to what it is right now.. And due to the fact that Telekinetic Throw // Force Lightning is used quite often, it's way too much. A Telekinetic Throw / Force Lightning already has a slightly negative (-4 pts total) cost right now. After this change it will regen. 28pts in total (-12 pts plus a 16pts base regeneration rate that scales with alacrity). I.e. the skill will be strictly better than a Consuming Darkness! So there was absolutely no need to make it better. The only problematic skill was this one: But I guess, to lower the base cost of Weaken Mind / Affliction from 35 to 20 (or even 15) was too nuch to ask for, right?

I don't really agree to that. Rail Shot: -5e and -7.5e regen = -12.5e || 3 uses every 12 GCDs = -37.5e Rocket Punch: 13e and -7.5e regen = 5.5e || 4 uses every 12 GCDs = 22e Energy Burst: 20e and 7.5e regen = 12,5e || 1 use every 12 GCDs = 12.5e Net result: 3e I.e. the energy cost of these skills equal themself out. But there are 4 more slots per 'rotation' to fill up: Magn. Blast: 15e and 7.5e regen = 7.5e Rapid Shot: 0e and 7.5e regen = -7.5e So without any Rapid Shots, the class is basically missing 18 energy every 18s. Other classes wouldn't call that 'easy to manage'. Sure, you can now replace 2 Magnetic Blasts for 2 Rapid Shots, but that's a huge downside of this spec. Just imagine you would ask Madness Sorcerers to use one Consuming Darkness per rotation! As usual, the easiest way to fix it would be to raise the base regeneration rate to 6 energy per second (from 5e per sec). This would result in +18e over 18s, exactly the amount that is missing. BioWare could make the Energy Burst free of cost... it would achieve a similar improvement (i.e. 20 energy every 24s) Magn. Blast: ~8,471 damage Rapid Shot: ~4,017 damage Difference: 4,454 damage Replacing ~12 Rapid Shots = ~53,448 damage => +214 DPS Well, although the DPS output isn't that bad, I still don't like the fact that a few stupid cooldowns prevent this class from having a proper rotation. Rail Shot (50% crit.): 6s CD | ~13,696 damage Rocket Punch (50% crit.): 9s CD | ~9,677 damage Thermal Detonator: 15s CD | ~12,364 damage Energy Burst: ~24s CD | ~18,758 damage What I would do Limit Energy Burst to 3 stacks | Increase Thermal Detonator CD to 18s Approx. 4 more Energy Bursts per parse = no damage loss on it's own, just more slots 'wasted' Approx. 3 fewer Thermal Detonators per parse = ~37,092 less damage 1 additional slot lost (probably a Magnetic Blast) = ~8,471 less damage Overall: ~45,563 less damage => -183 DPS The DPS loss would be completely negated by the energy management improvements. And this spec would finally have a proper 18s rotation, consisting of 5x Magnetic Blasts, 3x Rail Shots, 2x Rocket Punches, 1x Thermal Detonator and 1x Energy Burst. __________ Alternatively, BioWare could increase the cooldown reset of Rail Shot from 6s to 7.5s and lower the cooldown of Rocket Punch from 9s to 7.5s. This means, the class would have a 15s rotation with 2x 7.5 cycles and a powerful shot every 2x rotations (30s). Due to the fact that the Rocket Punch doesn't deal the same amount of damage as the Rail Shot, it would also result in a DPS loss. But once again, if the energy management fix is taken into consideration, the overall DPS wouldn't change that much.