Allright, in time-span of last 10 minutes I finally received 3 consecutive e-mails. Of course, first 2 were not working, but third one worked. Same thing happened to second account.

Greetings, One Time passwords are currently not being sent/received on/by gmail. (and for at least 20 minutes for me) At least 2 accounts confirmed at the moment. (yes, it is not in spam )

I am main DPS Vengeance Juggernaut in progression group. Trust me, in most fights you will be above the rest in dps (if played properly, or you have some real gods near you). Especially due to your dot spread /aoe inside of rotation. You can handle all the dps checks, yes even NiM Styrak. With proper cooldowns and dcds your survivability is unfortunately harder to obtain than sent / marauder, because of nature of your dcds. You need to know when dmg is comming, and use it before. AOE damage resistancy, mad dash to totaly ignore dmg and so on. The issue is, you are able to tank. So people wants you to tank because of lack of tanks. But if you join a raid group, or raid guild, there is usually lack of proper DPS.

Well, gladly! At first, it's about priority, not actual rotation. But Based on Opener, you align your abilities to go after each other as they come off cooldown. As you can see in this parse I have made 10270 DPS. It could get higher if I would go for for second alacrity threshold (~1890 alacrity), but I do not like it because I like to pvp a lot The opener is: Precast Slam (to get at least one stack, feel free to keep using it before you pull). Force charge -> Shatter -> Force Scream -> Impale -> Vengeful Slam -> Hew (from utility) -> Ravage -> Sundering Assault -> Force Scream -> (1) Shatter -> Impale -> Vengeful Slam -> Ravage ->(2) Saber Throw (1) Shatter and Impale comes at the same time out of cooldown like this. I use Shatter, because it consumes less rage (after activation), and does more DPS than Impale. (2) Everything is on CD, so you need to use one filler. Everytime Saber throw is off cooldown use it, every second time use Vicious Slash. Hope this helps

Most Juggs (which i know, myself included) are choosing vengeance over Rage currently because of longer survavibility. Now, Rage will have almost the same as Vengeance (except the dmg reduction after force charge). That means for me, as burst > steady dps in ranked, Rage could come out as a winner. But this is so far not tested, because changes are not live Edit: (some spelling)

The good thing is, definitely it will be boost for Vengeance DPS (in this case especially burst). The sad thing is, they were not lacking on DPS front in PvP. Problem is 2nd lowest survavibility (after PT) as dps. This will make Rage jugg more viable, because between Veng/Rage in ranked i had to take vengeance because of longer lifespan. Vengeance will still be a bit better with %DR after charge, but Rage have higher burst. So now, in my opinion, Rage will be better pick in ranked (not that i'm saying good one ), because you will live ~ 2GCD longer than vengeance, but you will probably be able to hurt your focus target more EDIT: Forgot about aoe damage, which is vengeance strong point. Especially against mercs, which can be hit only by dots/aoe while reflecting. This makes things a bit blurry, because of amount of mercs in ranked.

Greetings, Does this mean, that vengeance jugg will have to sacrifice one utility to have the same level of defenses he had before? Is that an actual nerf to 2nd worst class in ranked at the moment? (By the way, i'm happy for bug correction (if it does not apply only for shatter / Force Crush), and more dcds for Rage)

Ki'Su'Tchan Vengeance: 10270.9 DPS (Edit: link to parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/323222/0) Rage: 9852.14 DPS (Edit: link to parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/323235/0) 7599 Mastery 3964 Power 1891 Critical 789 Alacrity 759 Acc According tohttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=933260&page=4, which i have confirmed with my internal parsing, go for either 7.15% or 15.39% alacrity bonus. The rest will not have other effect than wasted stats. I received ~200 DPS increase from lowering alac from 1500 to 789 and take Mastery augments instead. I preferred the lower alacrity due to higher hits, which are beneficial in PvP as well. The 15.39% is ~ 1890 alacrity, which hinders your high hitters a lot (EDIT: But increases your PvE DPS), which I personally do not like in PvP (especialy considering the slimy healers always trying to run away from you).

Ki'Su'Tchan Vengeance: 10270.9 DPS Rage: 9852.14 DPS 7599 Mastery 3964 Power 1891 Critical 789 Alacrity 759 Acc According to http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=933260&page=4, which i have confirmed with my internal parsing, go for either 7.15% or 15.39% alacrity bonus. The rest will not have other effect than wasted stats.

Alright, on the last group before ToS Last boss, where I did ~ 27k-30k dps (very big aoe), yesterday did 26k. I would say our aoe is good

Definitely noticed as well. That's why i lowered my alacrity to ~1100, might even go a bit more down. It might be something with GCD lowering only if you move it by 0.1 sec. Because of rounding. - from what I saw on other threads. So unless you have something like 1900, it's not very useful above 1000. Bud need to find the exact spot. Anyway, having a bit more power/mastery helps with initial burst, which can be useful on many fights.

7296 Mastery 3964 Power 1891 Crit 1077 Alacrity 759 Accuracy I was running ~1500 alac, but changed 4 augs to mastery for increased DPS. Atm 43.89% Crit and 71.45% Multiplier

Actually, at least for me and my "rotation", yes!

Regarding AOE nerf, which I did not try yet (for that measure I'm using last group before Revan HM 8M), my guess it's from 27-30k DPS to ~ 22k, which should still keep it above most, if not all classes. Now for proper AOE you will have to take the utility for armor reduction on slam (which was mostly taken anyway), and with rotation: sunder -> shatter -> slam -> sweeping slash (untill shatter dot is about to run out)

Hi, these are my parses after 5.5: Vengeance: 10106 DPS Rage: 9662 DPS The Rage DPS is now more crit based than before(I know, but now even more!) So the dps was jumping around depending on crits a lot. I was using retaliation, ravage, and force scream as fillers. Feel free to check the rotation from parse.

Alright, Vengeance DPS was not affected negatively. At least for me. 10106.14 DPS So at least with Veng, the change is good. Gj BW

Allright, I have tried to parse without using chilling scream at all (simulate not having the utility). Previous high parse: 9898 DPS "Current" High parse: 9434 DPS According to my previous high parse, when i applied approximate effect, which should boost the dps by ~4%, it should bring me to (9434*1.04) = 9811 DPS If it is 1.05, that should make it equal. If that is true, congratulations for the calculations guys, hope it works. The speed buff is troublesome tho. For Rage spec, it's different matter. They are missing ~1800DPS from chilling scream. Let's see how they plan to offest that

Greetings, With this thread, I wanted to point out new theorycfrating information (from it's master for swtor), and maybe start discussion about it. Bant has just updated his Rage rotation and calculation in his thread. with words: Based on his numbers, this rotation should give: Item Level DPS APM Std Error 242 9179 49 439 240 8816 48.9 414 236 8536 48.7 395 with stats: Mastery Power Critical Alacrity Accuracy 6493.2 3694 1806 1486 743 6241.2 3506 1761 1435 733 6158.25 3424 1722 1376 736 which is ~100 DPS less than vengeance, but with higher standard variation (by ~150). That means, they are roughly equal, but rage has bigger pool of possible DPS if you keep up the rotation. I have put it into my calculator, which more or less confirms his. So, what do you guys think about the rotation itself, and position of rage Jugg in comparison to vengeance or other classes? (had no time to test it yet, as I am not behind a PC with swtor atm)

You need to take Legendary utility (Piercing Chill) for it to deal DoT damage.

No problem with that Even Rotation for Rage got changed inside of Bants spreadsheet atm - they are testing without freezing force, and it's doing only 8K8 DPS now, which means ~ -500 DPS. Well, you have to get it from "OUTPUT" sheet. When I wanted the data, I have just let comment for those who can edit, to open Rage Jugg there, so it generates detailed info about the spec.

Ability Average Damage Raging Burst 18304,84 Furious Strike 15586,34 Piercing Chill 13618,12 Obliterate 9162,36 Ravage 9884,02 Force Scream 9048,89 In 242 Gear. Bant's numbers.

Agreed with this. We are in spot of PT in 4.0. You are the target now. You have to survive as long as possible. But keep in mind, you can use this as your advantage. Do not rush first, if you know you have the big marker on your head. Stay behind, let them go through your teammates, who already start doing dmg to them, while they try to chase you. If you are not target, strike them hard. If they switch to you, use mad dash to get out. If they open a first stun on you, and you can survive it (with full HP, 2-3 DPS should not kill you in 4 seconds), wait it out. If you feel like you know burst is coming, break it, and immediately pop reflect (5 sec preferably). Even if you get second stun right after, direct damage will not hurt you. After that, you should have full resolve. With that, use your Saber Ward, while returning the favor of DPS. If you are Vengeance, use your force charge passive (20%dmg reduction) to it's max potential. Do not be affraid to mad dash or force push, and charge back (in case you have dots, or pressure is still on you) just for that reduction. If you are rage, you need to get out asap, if you see you are dropping more than target of your group. If you are rage, and you think that kiting will not work as well as the other primary target, go for him. Help with the dps, and burst the force out of him before you die. In case you are geared properly, and use your dcds right, he dies before you. You are Still jugg. Second, if they go for you, feel free to AOE mezz them while they are chasing you. That one guy, who is target will probably not go for you as the other guys. So get them away, AOE mezz. Either with your Intimidating Roar, or Grenade. Use them Both if possible. When it comes to DCDs, you need to know what each blocks, and how to use. Try to use your healing adrenal when your Endure Pain is ON (to maximize heal). Use your defense adrenal either while pressure is applied to you (before you are very low on health), or while you have enraged defense up (so you are not bursted through it) Take these as a hints, and/or topics for discussion about how to get the maximum of the situation we are currently at.

I did testing with replacing Ravage with something which uses the Overpower passive, but unfortunately, I was not able to maintain Rage for the rotation.

I forgot to mention it, but at start, jump on target, and use Enrage mid-flight. After that, Enrage should be off CD every time you need it. For Rage, I have completely switched for Bants rotation whenever I can maintain it. For utilities: PVE PVP

According to Bants numbers it does 1711DPS in optimized 242 gear. Which is in TOP 3 abilities DPS for Jug. Doesn't matter if Rage or Vengeance. Feel free to check it out and play with rotation based on this spreadsheet: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=D46FF1E796AB0BE9!100927&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!ADyL9BmyvhcKYWk