Okay. The Emporer passed a law that states all force users are to be trained as Sith or executed. So if you are a force user born in Imperial space. You will become Sith or die trying. Yes Sith have their own belief system, But Beliefs and Philosophies is just part of what makes them Sith. The "Illusion of choice" is a fascinating thing that only Darth Traya was able to see through. "It is said the Force has a will. It has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force, I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, When countless lives are lost. But in you... I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from its will, And that is what pleases me. You are beautiful to me, Exile. A dead spot in the Force. An emptiness in which its will might be denied." - Darth Traya. Personally I love her "If it bleeds I can kill it" Approach to the force. However this is another difference between Jedi and Sith. Jedi tend to submit to the Force when some day they become "one with the Force" "Trust in the Force" "the force will guide us" Sith try to subjugate the Force "The Force will free me" "May the Force Serve you" A point is a Dark Jedi would still see the Force as an ally. Even if its just a tool to kill their enemies. Jedi is not like club membership. Even if you are ostracized or exiled from the Jedi order. Yeah it can be said that if you do not follow the laws, rules, teachings that govern Jedi you are no longer Jedi. However whether one is Exiled or leaves the order it does not make them any less of a Jedi. Sith, Bounty Hunters, Assassins and whoever else is hunting that Jedi. Will still face a Jedi. Even if the council does not acknowledge them. Considering Count Dooku was a stand in for Anakin Skywalker he can be considered to a weak Dark Jedi. Reasons being that the Emperor only taught Dooku what he needed to be useful to his plans. And while no longer a part of the Order. Dooku never became Sith. So is Dark Jedi or failed Acolyte. And as for acting as a Jedi in public. Not being like your other Jedi just means you get a scolding from the Council or Masters from time to time. But show others outside the order another side to Jedi. Clearing up preconceived views.

Interesting. Depending on if they completed their training as Jedi or Sith. The foundation of that force-user has been laid. So the path they take be it light or dark does not really change them from being Jedi or Sith. Though I get that there is not that much lore and info on Dark Jedi and Light Sith. That many people think that Jedi becomes Sith once they fall to the Dark Side and a redeemed Sith becomes a Jedi.

I get that Jedi and Sith have their own philosophy and it does govern certain aspects of their lives and decisions. However adopting philosophies does not mean one can switch between Jedi and Sith. Dark Jedi or Light Sith being exposed to the opposite philosophies don't mean they have become that. You get Force users that can become Jedi or Sith because their path has not been set in stone yet. With the Jedi taking out a bad guy scenario. A light side Jedi may go out their way to save hostages and wont allow innocents to die to accomplish their goal. But a dark jedi would let hostages die and move to put down the bad guy. Its possible to train as a Sith or Jedi but never become one and remain padawan or acolyte. You assume that Sith just senselessly murder who or what they please. However this is a mistake. Showing "mercy" is not really a trait of the Light. If someone is useful, either to you or to accomplish your goals then it is not smart to kill them. Making use of your emotions is not the same as being controlled by them. Philosopy is indeed a part of being Jedi or Sith but there is much more to it.

Because Mauraders and Snipers are pure dps and already do high damage. Adding extra dps to classes that balance survivabilty with dps not only changes game-play but improves quality of life. Especially in situations where they focus on dps role. Like in Operations.

lol Comes down to titles really. Legal definitions and racial differences. Being a citizen is different to being a native. Though this is not the point of the thread.

Am starting this thread to begin a discussion that I hope will clarify the differences between Dark Jedi and Sith. As far too many people mistaken angry Jedi for Sith. There is some tales in regards to the founding of the Jedi Order. That spoke of how when the first force users in the galaxy came together there was disagreements as to the path that should be taken and things that govern them. With first Jedi Civil War the Dark Jedi lost and was exiled to the far reaches of the galaxy. These Dark Jedi discovered the true Sith Purebloods who had a healthy population of Force Sensitive. Ruled over them as gods and interbred with them. Eventually the Sith culture and way of life began was formed and in time grows. As they not just established themselves their culture, society way of life and civilization but ultimately their Empire. " You thought the corrupted remnants of the Republic. The machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its Empire, the true Sith Empire rules elsewhere" - Darth Traya. Some of the differences between Dark Jedi and Sith. First of all the Dark Jedi that came after the defeat of the Dark Jedi in the first Jedi Civil War are different. As nearly all Sith today come from or are influenced by the Ancestory and or Legacy of the Dark Jedi that interbred with the true Sith Purebloods. The first Sith are the offspring and descendants of the defeated Dark Jedi and True Sith Pureblood uninfluenced by the Light, Teachings and way of life of the Jedi that their parents and ancestors was. Even though the culture and people have grown over time. Although Jedi and Sith are from many races and many planets. They are still traits that can be found in each individual that makes them undeniably Jedi or Sith. Each one will go through their own trials and experiences that makes them or other realize if they are true Jedi or Sith. Dark Jedi often feel betrayed or limited by the Jedi before their fall and tend to be driven by little beyond vengeance. Sith take in to account past conflicts with Jedi and do not allow their hatred of Jedi to control them or cloud their judgement in dealing with them. Dark Jedi have little to now knowledge of the Dark Side of the force and have to learn in time what is Sith know so well. But to mention another point. Jedi and Sith does not just come down to if the person draws from the Light or Dark side of the Force. Dark Jedi is still a Jedi and Light Sith is still Sith. Dont want to put to much in the first post so I will end with a statement. Anakin Skywalker. From the beginning of his training through his time as Vader and death. Was always a Jedi. He was simply a Dark Jedi when he was Vadar. Even though he was given the title of Darth. To call him Sith is to call a Chinese person Russian. (in regards to ethnicity and racial differences). They may have the same title but they are not one of the natives.

Don't look at me. I dont know what we're doing. I just shoot things. - Kaliyo Djannis

Sith Warrior: With the Emperor wounded the Warrior kept watch over the state of the Empire while looking for a way to turn things around for the Empire. The Hand contacted the Wrath with information on something long lost to the Empire. Secrets that remained on a planet that the Early Empire was not ready for. But that the Wrath could discover again. This would lead to events that will leave the Wrath either joining or standing on a pile of corpses. The Empire faces a much larger problem. With the current state of the Empire the Jedi and Republic see the Empire as a wounded beast. Be it putting it out of its misery or ending its threat once and for all. This has led to even the more peace loving Jedi joining the war effort to put down the Sith Empire once and for all. Powerful Jedi that have slain or captured many Sith. The Empire is not in a position to face this threat. As they are not that many able and reliable Sith left to face this threat. For putting down Malgus proved more costly than the leaders of the Empire hoped for. Though not naive these Jedi underestimated the Emperors wrath. For they believed that the remaining members of the Dark Council to be the only other threat besides the Sith Emporor. The Wrath following the lead given by the Hand begins to search for what the lost secrets of the early Empire. However had to help the Imperial war effort because (battle meditation aside) these Jedi have turned the war in favor of the Republic. So the Wrath must put down these Jedi and put a stop to republic operations. If only to buy enough time for Imperial forces to regroup and its leaders like Grand Moff Regus to figure out how to turn the war in the Empires favor. The Wrath continues the task given by the Hand once this threat has been dealt with. Problem is that A Jedi fearing the degredation of historical records of the order. Maintained themself as a force ghost and through a living Jedi managed to warn the council of this threat and let them know that they preserved themself in this way to deny the Emporer his victory as he would simply outlive them. To return the Empire to this place once it is ready. Regardless of current events this is something that the Council could not ignore. Upon learning that the Wrath is the only one pursuing this the Council called back some Jedi and sent them to capture or kill the Emperors Wrath. Darth Marr and Grand Moff Regus noticed that some Jedi have been recalled from the war effort but not why. Needless to say this was a mistake they did not allow to go unpunished. Eventually the Wrath found the planet where these secrets are meant to be on. However it is left to the Wrath to discover them. As the only ones who knew of them is the Emperor Himself and the Force ghost that warned the council of this threat. The Wrath was shocked more than anyone to discover this planet. Mainly because for the first time the Wrath of the Emperor was prey. The natives and wildlife of the planet was ridiculously strong and survival was far from guranteed. In time the Wrath learned of the Jedi that the council sent. Many powerful Masters and Knights that have often be called "Sith Killers" and Jedi that the Wrath could not take a lone. The Wrath continues the search for these secrets on this new worlds. Taking advantage of The Jedi who are trying to establish an outpost on this world. Even if it is just to "cleanse the dark presence on this world" These Jedi begin their hunt of the Emperors Wrath. So as to remove Jedi Interference the Wrath outwits and defeat these Jedi. Wittling down their strength bit by bit. As they regroup to recount their losses and defend their outpost from the natives and wildlife of this World. The Wrath discovered the secret lost to the Early Empire. And that was a Sith Temple, Made by the Early Sith during the times where the foundations of Sith was being laid. The treasure trove was not trinkets and items of power. But Martial prowess, skills and force techniques forged by the Sith that managed to not only survive but thrive on this world. Even though these Sith are long dead, the descendants of their followers remained and preserved this knowledge. However these teachings cant be taught through conventional means, but endured and learned by surviving it and experience. Having survived these trials the Emperors Wrath then moved to eliminate the remaining Jedi that landed on this World. Some of the Dark Council learned of the Wrath and eventually learned what the Wrath discovered. Refusing to allow this to fall into the hands of arrogant Sith that would Squander what was learned here using it as a monument to their egos and a tool against their enemies in the Empire. The Wrath proceeds to get the Dark Council in line. Before the Empire can bring order to the Galaxy order MUST be established within the Empire. Darth Marr not wanting to whittle down the Empires strength through more infighting. Sides with the Wrath. Making them an opponent not worth taking on and preserving the remaining strength of the Empire. This gave the Emperors Wrath an opportunity to lead other Sith, Acolytes and force-sensitives to this temple and forge another generation of Sith that would survive these teachings. Reclaiming that once lost to the Empire and preparing the Empire for the return of its Emporer. Showing the Jedi that Sith are not the force they once crushed at the Hyperspace wars and allowed Korriban to burn.

Left handed or South paw animations. In and out of combat. Would be nice to have lefties. The galaxy cant be all right handed

I get that you are excited about these Anzati things. But if Bioware did bring it in I know of about 15 people of the top off my head that will do the same. Granted developers can make or break it with expansions and additional content. A Vampire race will eclipse a lot of Swtor. Cant speak for anyone else but if I wanted to play MMOs with vampires i will be playing games like "World of Darkness" "Forsaken World" "Dark Eden" "Moonlight Online" and not The Old Republic.

I just hope that Bioware will be able to stand up on their own feet regardless if the 2015 sinks or swims. Yeah one could argue that with Swtor they began with a pre-made fan base from Star Wars and Kotor. But has brought in plenty new people to the game and is still fun to play. So could just take a wait and see approach.

I must admit I chuckled as I read this. However you raise a very good point. Bioware needs to be careful that they do not lower the tone. or lower the bar too much. I get that in any MMO they will be the casual players. However progressing as any class is not just levelling up and reaching the level cap. I come across commandos wearing dresses and wonder how could you take a dress into battle? Yeah Jedi/Sith have fancy force powers to shield them but a soldier? (I shouldn't go off on a tangent.) Besides Hedonism I don't see what else Zeltron's can offer to the Star Wars galaxy and game as a whole. A common misunderstand is that Hedonism is a good thing. However it is always done in excess to the point of being detrimental. Bioware already has a wardrobe that borders from Sexy to outright whorish. But add a "Party race" and it pours fuel on the fire that changes everything.

you described what is very much a vampire feeding on a thrall. a few things changed here or there but its pretty much the same thing. Its like looking at the Cathar and not seeing Thundercats.

Interesting point you made. Though comparing Lucas Arts and Disney is like comparing Toyota and Mr Kiplin (makes really good cakes). Both have their own specialty and stick to what their good at. Though one would be worried if you find out your car was made by a cake baker. Yeah. It could be said that both have made movies. But there is very different history and fan bases for both. So only time will tell if they can pull it off as fans would let them know if they sink or swim.

Actually the queues in WoW can take up to an hour plus. even when using raid/group finder.

I understand your point and do not disagree with it. However they are things in The Old Republic taken from and influenced by past movies. An example is the Meditation Chamber. (watch up to 0:40) The advantage of "from the makers of....." Type of advertising is that you already have a pre-made fan base. However you have to make your own product or you run the risk of losing them. When you think about it the bulk of players that are playing SWTOR have come from KOTOR.

I understood you at first but after reading some of the posts I was confused as to if this was a discussion of Jedi / Sith ideology. Personally I believe that Light side Sith and Fallen Jedi are traitors to their cause as they abandoned what they once stood for. But when it comes to Light and Dark many mistaken Fallen Jedi for Sith. Choosing the Dark Side is not the easier path as some may think. Because the Dark Side of the Force seeks to dominate corrupt and control those that heed its call. The evidence can be seen (at least on a physical level) by the corruption of the dark side of the force. Many Sith have been consumed by the own power, unable to let it go. Even in death. So to those that say the Dark Side is easier. I ask who is the real Master? Is it the power they wield or the one that wields the power. So why choose the Dark Side? It depends on your point of view. I have always been dark side (Sith Warrior) I hear of but never experienced what those of the Light consider virtues. The Light is an invader. Something that disturbs my blessed solitude and an enemy to be extinguished. I have never hidden what I was and seek new challenges Jedi or Sith. Fallen Jedi are a disgrace because they abandoned the Light they once possessed that could challenge me and descended to the level of an acolyte with the martial prowess of a Jedi. Safeguard the Empire and continue to test myself. Forgiveness and mercy is something Jedi and Light side people practice. But is giving someone another chance to betray or kill you wise?

If Bioware brought Vampires into the game it will transform into some kind of Twilight MMO. This would lead to an Exodus (a mass departure of people) of people from Swtor to.......anything else.

At the risk of descending into an argument on the forums I will respond. The emotes in game are a fun and entertaining feature. But I think an issue may be that some mistake: not pro-gay + embrace/celebrate it = Homophobia or bigotry. Is same gender flirting with my character a game breaker? No. Just if Bioware will implement this in future content and expansions. They should give players the option to be exempt from SGR features/content that they may implement.

I would like to think that Bioware staff check out their forums. even if it is just to see the views and opinions of the community on different topics. My concerns are if Bioware would continue the same gender romance option in future content and expansions. If they do implement these changes. Would it be left as an individual choice for players? or will these changes effect the entire Swtor community? For example players can choose to pursue the SGR or just get on with the game. Its good to have these discussion but for now would just have to take a wait and see approach.

I understand what you mean. However there is only so much one can do with the "from the makers of...." advertising hook.

I guess the in game same-sex romances was something that Mass Effect started that spills over into other games. With introducing this you would need to keep in mind the players that are not pro-gay. Personally i don't want to see it and hopefully can make changes that can make your character exempt from having same gender players from flirting with you. With the same gender romance options on the Makeb story line. I just don't bother with it. Yes some people are gay, bought what us more important is that in game they can keep me alive in raids or keep mobs off me. The thing is you're running the risk of this snowballing into something else. Instead of having fun with an MMO creating your own saga and enjoying the Star Wars fantasy. There will be more same-sex romance options that will simply put some players off. So whatever Bioware plans to do please keep it an individual option for characters and not something that would effect others online. Like getting snowballed in Life Day Event or Infected during Rakghoul infestation.

Reason why it is important to keep things moving is that player has gone on a journey from Sergeant to Major, Padowan to Master, Acolyte to Darth and so on. But should have new tasks and challenges once they reach such titles, positions, skill and capability. With introducing new races perhaps consider new races to the galaxy as a whole and not just playable races. The Republic Trooper: There have been conflicting reports of an unknown species. But having had several outposts go dark SIS contacted Havoc squad directly as they don't go through the same red tape, politics and difficult senators that other soldiers do. Upon meeting the SIS agents the Trooper believes their initial tasks is to find out what happened to those outposts and if the Empire or someone else is behind it. The Trooper travels to the edges of Republic Territory to investigate the last outpost to have fallen off the grid. These outposts have been destroyed. Having seen plenty of dead soldiers the Trooper is more concerned about the wounds of the victims. Its unlike anything they have seen before. Having found a good lead the Trooper later discovers that these outposts fell to a Vanguard force of the Yuuzhan Vong ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yuuzhan_Vong bit of info for those that don't know about them.) The SIS agent that contacted Havoc Squad came themselves to find out what happened Probing this part of the galaxy and testing their forces this Vanguard of the Yuuzhan Vong are more of an advanced force sent ahead of the larger or main force. Discovered by the Yuuzhan Vong Havoc Squad had to get the SIS agent out of there and facing a battle they cant win had to fall back to allied territory. Knowing they have been discovered the leader of this advanced force of Yuuzhan Vong proceeds their campaign into republic territory. But his/her main goal is to establish a foothold for the main force. Nearly isolated from allies Havoc Squad can not allow the worlds at the edges of Republic territory to fall. And leaves the SIS agent the task of warning the Republic of this new threat. The problem the SIS agent has is convincing Supremer Chancellor Saresh . Believing the Empire to be wounded she is preparing Republic forces for further conflict with the Empire without compromising the defences of its worlds. Needless to say the reinforcements Havoc Squad is hoping for is tied up. This means the Trooper is pretty much on their own and have to deal with this new force. Doing what they can to safeguard or evacuate the citizens of these worlds suffering a Yuuzhan Vong onslaught. Supreme Chancellor Saresh asks the Jedi if this is a threat worth diverting forces to. Jedi being unable to sense them cant see the danger they possess. In this situation the Trooper have become a victim of their own legend. Saresh knows what Havoc Squad can do and believes they can handle the situation. So the SIS Agent uses their own contacts and resources to get the Trooper whatever help they can having seen first hand what the Yuuzhan Vong are capable of. The reality of the situation is that even with Havoc Squad these worlds can not hold out indefinitely against the Yuuzhan Vong. and they are establishing a foothold within Republic territory. Luckily for the Trooper the call for help did not go unheard by Supreme Commander Jace Malcolm who sent Havoc the reinforcements and supplies they so desperately needed. Havoc Squad Commanding the reinforcements manage to defeat the Vanguard force. But the damage is done. a few worlds have been lost. The Republic must prepare for the impending invasion of the main force. I think the above idea is good because the Empire is not the only enemy to threaten the Republic. With or without the Jedi the Trooper has always protected the Republic

Thanks I was worried that I was going overboard.

Hello. I managed to get a guild bank for my guild a few days ago. But I am having a problem with the Guild Bank Access. I changed the setting to allow members and above access to it. However the problem I am having is every time I log off the guild bank access resets to how it was with only officers allowed to access it and not members and above. How do I rectify this problem and make changes to our guild bank permanent?