I dont think force barrier needs to go away completely. Nor should it have a cast. Enduring bastion needs to go as well as interrupt immunity and passive healing in bubble. Also shouldn't be able to be healed in bubble. It should be an anti focus button and thats it. They have enough other tools to deal with other things. The dot spreading in general was a terrible idea by the devs. I dont know what they were thinking. its not just sorcs, but all dot classes. They didnt need to let them spread dots and have them uncleansible. That is just stupid. They should have been given dot protection like what lethality had. When dots are cleansed a weaker version of the dot is still there. That would have been more than enough.

Actually it really depends on what toon I'm on and what class im fighting. Some I won't pop a defense because I don't have to. This game doesn't need more ridiculous moves. What I suggested gives maras survivability and mobility, but doesn't give them a overpowered move. Giving them unstoppable would just be asking for nerfs. I can hear the sage whining already just thinking about it. The things I suggested might cause some to QQ, but as a whole would be widely accepted since any serious pvper realizes that maras are in need of...something.

I've been seeing this "sorcs are now competitive" argument a lot since update. They sound the same as all the juggs after they over buffed enraged defense. "We aren't a free kill anymore." Same arguments. Not saying that sorcs didn't need some love, but it's gone well past what they needed. Just like they over did it for juggs.

I have played sorcerer. You guys are acting the same why that juggs did with enraged defense. Barrier at inception was fine, but with all the other buffs it has it is beyond stupid. You have many other tools to survive. Saying sorcs are susceptible to focus fire is also a stupid excuse as many other classes are also susceptible. I have no problems surviving on my sorcerer and it isn't even my main. It's stupid how faceroll easy the class is. Those defending it are just deluding themselves into thinking they are fine. And if ravage + impale is killing you...then you are an absolutely terrible sorcerer.

Perhaps that is so. Honestly, I find I do less DPS when my opponents are terrible because they are often dead before I can get to them. Or I can only get off one hit before the rest of the team ganks them. Also match usually ends much faster with me having to run around searching for opponents who are still alive. The times I do the most DPS is when the other teams have good healers. I usually tunnel the healers so I usually achieve pretty high DPS because I stay on them the whole time.

/\ pretty much what he said. DPS specs are a lot of fun and can do quite well.

My take on DPS ops since patch: Lethality: Energy problems gone. Hardly ever have to use adrenaline probe. I remember having a lot of every problems pre 3.0 with lethality. Cull might hit for less but TAs are in more abundance and I can cull a lot more. Sometimes depending on the situation I will cull even if the person only has one dot on them because it is so easy to get another TA. Dot spreading with carbine blast is retarded. I take people out pretty easily with lethality. Haven't tried lethality in ranked yet. But in regs it's fine. Concealment: Much improved. I usually end up with higher damage at the end of a war zone with concealment than lethality. I don't like spamming corrosive grenade unless I need it for cull. That's probably why. Roll probably pisses off AP PTs more than anything. I love when they set up their burst on me just to have it wasted on a roll. In regards to a previous post in this thread immunity roll is only for concealment not lethality. Yeah they took hidden strike away and that sucks, but I don't have a problem bursting people down. Kolto probes are actually pretty nice too. I've done about 20 ranked matches since patch and have still won about 80% of them. You won't carry your team as concealment. It's not the best DPS spec. It could improve. But it is much better than pre 3.0. Did 24k damage in one global on a sorc today (reg war zone). Volatile substance plus backstab. Both got a lucky crit and I used backstab from stealth. Used cloaking screen to reopen on it for fun. 1v1 the only class that should give you much trouble is a sin.

If that was cull that would be crazy. Unless it added all the damage done by a single cull together in one number. Even then it's pretty high. Would be pretty crazy with lethal strike to haha.

Well if that's what happened then I guess I could see it. Both hits of lethal strike combined I've hit for 10k before. But even that is high. Had relic procs and pretty sure the person didn't have full expertise. Usually it's more like 7-8k.

Yeah not really sure how that happened. I could understand a lucky crit if you were concealment, but lethality... I would be asking myself the same question. I have no answer for you. Stars aligned, everything proc'd, opponent was under geared sorc, lethal strike from stealth. Even then that damage comes in 2 hits. I don't know. Hardest I've ever hit in lethality is 6k since patch with a single hit.

Um deception hardly changed. I played it quite well. Having fun with a spec does not always equate to "I did the most damage or got the most kills." I like the play style of deception better. It is more fun to me. Yeah every once in a while I will do hatred and I do extremely well with it. It is easier to do well with, but not as fun IMO.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying sin escape ability isn't powerful. Not saying it is second rate. It is a good cooldown. But saying that barrier is second rate is just not true. It's is an incredibly powerful cooldown.

There is the self cc comment again. Seeing as how the sin can't do anything after escaping combat besides run it is effectively also a self cc. The escape doesn't heal them to full. The escape doesn't give the a massive absorption bubble. The escape doesn't give them any sort of interrupt immunity (not that they reall need it). To do any of those things they would have to exit stealth hence ending the benefit. Same thing a sorc has to do, except they are now at full health, have absorption bubble, and interrupt immunity. Not seeing how it is a second rate ability.

It's not their only defense. If you really played sorcs a lot you should know this. I shouldn't need to detail everything else they have. But if you need me to just ask.

I wouldn't trade. There is a reason mercs are focused before sorcs most of the time. Saying their defenses are better is laughable.

The self stun argument is getting old. There really is no penalty for barrier. You can heal to full with it, it purges you, and you get bastion after it that absorbs a ton of damage. You don't even have to be in it for the whole time to get a lot of benefit. They over buffed barrier. I'd be fine with them lowering the cooldown by a substantial amount if they got rid of all the other crap it can do. Honestly you shouldn't be able to be healed in it. With all the other tools sorcs have now barrier is just too much.

1. Absolutely no. Would just cause people to go afk in match. With replacements you at least have a chance to get a competent player. Also, people should be able to leave if they want to. I leave quesh ball every time. I leave if the team is full of idiots as well. If bioware put a penalty like that on reg PVP I would quit the game. I wouldn't even f2p. I have many friends who would do the same. 2. I think this is also unreasonable. Increase rating penalty sure, but 24 hour cooldown is stupid. I don't think there should be a cooldown at all. If there must be one maybe 15 minutes. 3. No. If the disconnect it's not their fault. Rating loss is enough.

Concealment has much better survivability now. You can pick up evasive imperative which helps not only with roots and slows, but also all the dots being thrown around. You also can pick up evasion on cloaking screen. Sometimes I do die because I'm rooted and can't roll, but not often. Might not have as much survivability as a jugg or pt, nor as much burst as a pt, but it is in a much better place since update. I hit plenty hard. Not sure what sort of burst numbers you are wanting. But I'm pretty happy with mine. If they buff it that's cool. Won't complain, but concealment is still quite bursty. I've done fine in regs and the few rateds I've done since update. Only done about 15 rateds since I leveled up a new op and had to get it geared, but I've won 80% of the matches. Of course it always helps to have good teammates. A concealment op isn't going to carry the team.

Um both sorcs and pts are better than operatives and juggs IMO.

If you want my advice I detailed tactics for each advanced class versus sins in the PVP forum under a thread called something like "need advice on beating assassins" or something like that.

Is this the right class forum for this thread. Tactics for a sorcerer to beat shadow? Or did you mean for a mara to beat shadow?

Oh and one more thing for OP. I'm not sure how familiar you are with damage types. But don't expect deflection to help you against a concealment op. It's worthless versus them other than having cc immunity if you take that utility. They can still root you though. So take root break on force speed.

Operatives, sins, and sages have a purge. If an operative is attacking you pop shroud. There goes all their damage for a few seconds. If they have evasion up don't try melee attacks on them. Stick with force attacks. I'm guessing it's a concealment op that you were fighting. They can hit pretty hard. Try to get in all your burst when they have roll on cooldown. Concealment ops can still kill hatred sins. I do it all the time. Timing rolls is a key factor. I can also purge dots more often than any other class. Concealment actually has a lot of counters to hatred. Not saying concealment is better. I believe hatred takes the gold medal for faceroll spec between the two (and most others for that matter), but concealment can still win a 1v1.

But it's so fun to do that. Especially out of revenge

So, 80% of my toons are imps, but I want to play pubs sometimes. I find it hard to level as a pub because I level thru PVP and I last about two rounds as a pub before wanting to bang my head against the desk. Then I end up jumping back on my imp toons. Pubs just seem far less experienced than imps. So question is: What time do the more experienced pubs usually queue during the day?