I wish I knew how to record crap. See the thing is a Merc should NOT be able to. And neither should an op. But the sheer amount of stupid in warzones allows it. Not all the time of course, but the few times I have done so it is because the enemies were clueless. I swear they only have force storm and saber strike bound.

When did this become an "operatives are op" thread? Ops are good nodes guards. So are sins. I have defended a node with my Merc against 5 people for over a minute before. Same on my sniper. Ops are one of the better ones, but if an op is holding off 3 people for longer than 30-45 seconds then those people suck. People apparently do not know how to fight them, draw them out, and kill them. Stop burst and cc'ing them when they are rolling. Operatives are not holding off 5 people, whilst simultaneously healing themselves, cc'ing everyone, and healing to full. Each one of those things costs a global. It's just not happening unless the attackers are absolutely awful. Operatives can hold off tons of bads, but so can any other class. Yes even marauders. If the op is fighting people of equal skill 2 people should easily be able to force them out and kill them. If the op was smart it will have already called for help though. Once help arrives it's a different story anyway. People just are terrible players. I've been one of those operatives that have literally held off 6 enemies from taking a node for 4-5 minutes by myself because my team was full of idiots and didn't respond to incs. You know what these "skilled" enemies were doing? Taking turns try to cap the node one at a time while 5 run around doing nothing. Maybe two of them put down an aoe every couple seconds. And they were dumb enough to take turns trying to cap so the white barred idiot would start running around. After a couple minutes they would get "smart" and cap two at a time. So eventually I'm forced out. Guess what? They still just try capping while I'm kiting behind pillars. Sure one will chase me. They immediately break flashbang while not stunned. I hear a stun breaker on crippling slice. Then they just give up chasing me and try to cap against. But for some reason only 1 or 2 people are trying to cap and the other 3 are just kinda aimlessly wandering around. A few more seconds goes by and a Merc starts casting tracer missile at me. I hide behind a pillar and nobody tries to attack me. It's like they forgot where I was. So 4-5 of them watch or spam an aoe while 1-2 of them cap. I shoot the cappers. And again one or two try to chase me, but they aren't rooting or cc'ing. I can literally run around a pillar for a minute in the same direction and they will chase me around it doing nothing while I keep shooting the capper. One of them gets smart and cc'd me. But instead of bursting me they run to the node and try to cap. I wait out the cc and interrupt them. I get cc'd again. I wait it out because again they don't burst me. I proceed to interrupt them some more. The Merc decides it's a good idea to finally use net on me while I'm white barred with my cc breaker available. I break it and interrupt some more. After another minute they finally decide it's time to burst me down as a group. This forces a stealth out. No stealth scan. No aoe on the spot I stealthed out on. They proceed to again cap 1 at a time. And it starts all over. So yeah an operative can hold the node forever against bads. As I said before, I have also held the node against several attackers for 3+ minutes as a sniper, Merc, sin, sorc, pt, jugg, and even Mara. I don't deny that ops are good at it. They are. But this "ops can hold the node against 5 people with ease" rubbish is complete garbage. I've also seen a line op doing it to my team, but as soon as I come and attack it is running away or dead within 20-30 seconds. But for some reason it was holding off 4 of my team for 3 minutes. No surprises my team was full of tards. The amount of complete trash players this game has is what enables operatives to troll 6 players. Sure they are still good guards, but if those 6 players were competent they would have that op dealt with and the node capped very fast. Don't get me wrong it is easier to troll with an operative than many other classes, perhaps all of them, but they aren't holding off 3+ competent players.

Is this a vote for operatives?

As is common with pvp forums there are hundreds of "buff this" or "X class is up" or "X ability is up" threads. Let's take a poll of a class's up'ness: As is common with pvp forums there are hundreds of "nerf this" or "X class is op" or "X ability is op" threads. Let's take a poll of a class's op'ness: Ground rules: 1. Can vote once for most up and once for runner up (in this case "up" actually is the word up.) 2. Must make use of one of the provided reasons or can use the "other" option and voice the reason with a maximum of 10 words. 3. Can rebut one class with a 10 word maximum reason: For example: sorc is voted up because of light armor. A rebuttal can be: "but dos heals yo" which would count as 4 words. Results will be determined in 4 ways: Gross UP'ness: the gross amount of times a class has been counted as either most up or runner up up for any reason. Gross Most UP'ness: same as above, but only counts the number of times it is counted as most up. Net Up'ness: the gross amount of times a class is voted most up or runner up up netted against the number of rebuttals that class has received. Net Most Up'ness: same as above except only most Up is counted. Let's meet the contenders! Introducing Operative: these loyal officials were libeled by bioware and blamed for stun-locking people into unsubbing. What was not reported is the fact that the are a melee class even though they have a gun. ***. It has also been reported that this class has no damage to speak of and can be rooted into oblivion. They have also put out a statement against the constant slander and libel that has been known as "Nerf Ops". They are actively working at changing their class name to uperatives, but have had no success thus far. Reason for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Root turns troll roll into no roll 3. Where is my pistol that appears in all the cutscenes? 4. A 3.0/4.0 pyro Pt killed me 5. Kolto probes tick for 3k on double relic proc crit 6. 1v1 is overrated 7. Other Introducing Sorcerer: these martyrs have been the source of unwarranted persecution for a couple years now. Even bioware told them to just H2F and make people pay. They note their "best defense" is in all actuality a self-stun, hence the need for another cc escape. They also note that they have light armor, which means that even rapid shots can crit on them for 50k. They have been seen protesting in Kaas City proclaiming "Sorc Lives Matter" Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Light armor 3. I always get focused no matter what 4. Light armor 5. I can't make people pay 6. Barrier = self-stun 7. Other Introducing Mercenary: these honest workers have been the bottom of the barrel since the early models. The claim to have no defenses of note, stating that people actually crit harder when they have energy shield up. They also have put out a statement regarding the abuse they receive in yolo's stating that all classes should have a fair chance. They also have rebutted the popular belief that electro net has replaced their middle finger, and that is in fact useless as it can be broken. Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Kolto overloads sucks 3. Queue yolo's 4. Energy shield sucks 5. Queue yolo's 6. Stop complaining about net 7. Other Introducing Juggernaut: These defenders of the weak have officially stated that they do not actually have 900 lives. They have also gone record as stating that once all of their cooldowns are gone they are dead meat. They have always been overshadowed by their two saber brethren. They have also stated that enraged defense is the only thing that makes them playable. Many have taken to pointing to the official leaderboards for vindication. Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. ED causes low performance, why would someone want it? 3. Look at the leaderboards 4. Roots and snares galore 5. Look at the leaderboards 6. Learn to stun & burst 7. Other Introducing Assassin: these underdogs have always been overshadowed by the dominant stealth class (OPeratives). They have considered going on strike as these other stealth intruders have taken their roll as assassins. They have gone on record stating that they are the easiest class to kite hence they were given a chance with ranged low slash. They further state that low slash misses often and is almost always broken. Recent models were outraged when the God's of the universe were given their proprietary phase walk without their permission. They have also gone on record stating that they have been nerfed harder than any class in the game (research cackling blasts). Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. I am always kites to death 3. I have no burst 4. I was nerfed because of sorcs 5. Bioware took my self heals 6. Operatives are better in every way 7. Other Introducing Powertech: these have remained steadfast through several nerf hammer blows. They have gone on record several times throughout the game saying how they have been gutted. They have also put out a statement warning bioware to not mess with their range again. It is reported that the only people who were blown up in a few seconds during the early part of 3.0 were undergeared. They also have claimed that they are the squishest class in the game...true glass cannons, though more glass than cannons. Reason for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Super squishy 3. I got focused in yolo's 4. Super squishy 5. One word: pyro 6. Two words: pyro powertech 7. Other Introducing Marauder: these targets of persecution have been dead in the water since 3.0. Claims of the earlier models being super op were highly exaggerated and mostly came from Sorcs. They have gone on record stating that since they are one of the only pure dps classes they should do the most dps, and yet they don't. They also have petitioned the fact that their "stealth" is just a cheap knock-off of sins and OPeratives. They have also been seen through the galaxy proclaiming their lack of self-heals and their need for such. Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Just stun during undying 3. Gore = cc me please 4. Most susceptible class to cc 5. I am always cc'd 6. No self heals 7. Other Introducing Sniper: these targets of libel have for get against the notion that they can never be cc'd. Although their PR spokesperson has gone on record saying "L2 LOS and look at the big red shield." They have also petitioned their lack of self heals. Like marauders they also claim that they should have the best dps as they are a pure dps class. They also recommend that anyone complaining about sniper queue yolo's. Reasons for Up: 1. Most nerfed class in the history of MMOs 2. Queue yolo's 3. No self heals 4. Queue yolo's 5. Stop F'ing LOSing me 6. No mobile cover?! ***! 7. Other You decide:

I think fury marauders are much better than rage juggs. No comparison really. They take it hands down. But I do like carnage better. I also like me some anni. Marauders are pretty much just the funnest class in the game.

Haha yeah that does sounds wrong.

Nice you actually used some of the provided reasons! 😁😁

Is this a vote for ops being op? If so it will tip the scales in favor of ops being the winner. To all: remember you can only vote and rebut once. So save your rebuttal for when you really need it. There is a page of arguing about ops, but it only counts as one vote toward ops being op and one rebuttal. Also remember that this isn't a "fix it this way" or "nerf this thread", but rather a "this is op because..." thread. Since you can have any reason (i.e. I saw a sorc fly once) a chance for a rebuttal is provided. You can use your rebuttal to disagree on something that may be legitimate or use it to rebutt something that is false (i.e sorcs can't fly noob).

I take it this is a rebuttal against juggs being op. I am counting it as such.

Keep reasons and rebuttals to 10 words. Remember you can only rebut once and vote once.

I find rocket out very annoying. I wish you would just rocket out in the direction you are facing. Roll bug still happens and is annoying. And holotraverse is the buggiest piece of crap in the game.

Be sure to stay tuned to offer a rebuttal.

Glad you enjoyed it. Don't forget to vote for runner up and specify reason 😁. Also stay tuned to provide a rebuttal.

As is common with pvp forums there are hundreds of "nerf this" or "X class is op" or "X ability is op" threads. Let's take a poll of a class's op'ness: Ground rules: 1. Can vote once for most op and once for runner up. 2. Must make use of one of the provided reasons or can use the "other" option and voice the reason with a maximum of 10 words. 3. Can rebut one class with a 10 word maximum reason: For example: sorc is voted op because of barrier. A rebuttal can be: "barrier = self-stun" which would count as 4 words. Other examples can include: rebuttal of enraged defense "use mez yo" or rebuttal of operative roll "l2 root" etc. Results will be determined in 4 ways: Gross OP'ness: the gross amount of times a class has been counted as either most op or runner up op for any reason. Gross Most Op'ness: same as above, but only counts the number of times it is counted as most op. Net Op'ness: the gross amount of times a class is voted most op or runner up op netted against the number of rebuttals that class has received. Net Most Op'ness: same as above except only most op is counted. I will update the results periodically. Currently as of page 4. Gross Op Winner: Tie! Sorcerer and Operative Gross Most Op Winner: Operative Net Op Winner: Sorcerer Net Most Op Winner: Tie! Sorcerer and Operative Let's meet the contenders! Introducing Operative: a reported douche class that likes to stabby stabby people to death whilst simultaneously stun-locking them and healing to full. These D'Bags have reportedly run around in teams stun-locking people into unsubbing. Reason for Op: 1. Cause op = op (it's in the name) 2. Teams of stun locking operatives 3. Troll roll 4. 8 billion CC's 5. Kolto probe H2F 6. 1v1 God's 7. Other Introducing Sorcerer: these cupcakes have been reported as being able to H2F and make people pay. They are also known for the great bubble stun fiasco and being invincible at times. Reasons for Op: 1. H2F 2. Barrier 3. Roaming Mend 4. Bubble stun 5. Making people pay 6. Three CC escapes 7. Other Introducing Mercenary: these guns for hire have been noted as being favored with surge and hitting way too hard. They also have been gifted with heavy armor and were reported to spam tracer missile in early models. They have also developed an electro net for use instead of their middle finger. Reasons for Op: 1. Electro net 2. 30k heatseeker yo 3. Electro net 4. Mobility 5. Electro net 6. Heavy armor 7. Other Introducing Juggernaut: these beasts reportedly have 900 lives and can take on teams of over 1000 enemies with no problem. They are also noted to not only heal while you attack them, but to also reflect the damage back to you. These beasts have been also been given terms of endearment such as "skank" and "shank" from fans and haters alike. Reasons for Op: 1. 900 lives 2. Enraged defense 3. 20k crushing blow 4. Saber reflect 5. Shank 6. Skank 7. Other Introducing Assassin: the sneaky bastards have been reported as having 1000 ways of controlling their targets. A couple models back they developed a ranged troll ability to replace the use of their middle finger (not sure what is wrong with assassin's and mercenaries' middle fingers). These God's have at different points in their history been known for 1v1 prowess and spammable 100k back attacks. Reasons for Op: 1. Maul 2. Troll slash 3. CC 4. Stealth 5. Hatred memories 6. 1v1 demigods 7. Other Introducing Powertech: several models have been reported as blowing their enemies up in a matter of seconds. The scavengers have also managed to obtain leap, pull, speed, and aoe stun abilities. Beware that these tards will often pull their enemies into fire, toxic sludge, acid, and even off ledges. Reason for Op: 1. One killed me in 2 seconds 2. Leap + pull + HO 3. Carbonize 4. Sonic the hedgehog HO 5. One killed me in 3 seconds 6. One pulled me into the fire 7. Other Introducing Marauder: these a-holes decided that one saber was not enough. For several years one model was the source of the greatest QQ as they would smash entire teams into oblivion while only being hit for 2 damage. Recent models have developed cc immunity and are known to cause their entire team to zoom around the map at uncontrollable speeds. As if two sabers weren't enough, these a-holes somehow manage to steal stealth technology from either operatives or sins though they have not yet perfected it. Reasons for Op: 1. Was smashed for years. Never forget. Never forgive. 2. Undying rage 3. Predation spam 4. Dat burst yo 5. Two lightsabers 6. One ravaged me over and over 7. Other Introducing Sniper: these crack-shots have enjoyed CC and interrupt immunity galore. They are known for ambushing people for 1 billion damage from a mile away. Beware that an earlier model was reported as killing people by banging them against a wall. Reasons for Op: 1. Entrench 2. Ambush 3. Entrench 4. Ambush 5. CC 6. I couldn't stun one and it ambushed me. 7. Other You decide:

Or you can, you know, play as a team... Instanced pvp is not a dueling tournament. It is team based play. Besides there is hardly ever a true 1v1 in a warzone. Almost always one or the other will have something on cooldown and/or be paying attention to an objective as well as the fight. That and since it is TEAM play someone else will most likely come up and interfere....rightly so, especially if people would call incs like they are supposed to. Back on topic: sorcs apparently suck so much that they need 3 cc escapes to be playable...

Because pvp is about 1v1's....

Trying not to be directly contradictory as those things can ruin your gore window, but people make it out to be way harder to get of gore windows than it actually is. It is quite easy to get off the gore + devastating blast + vicious throw, which is very good burst, 10m, and can be consistently done. It's really only when maras get burst greasy and want to do the whole berserk throw gore ravage devastating blast combo. Activating ravage is just asking to be cc'd so I suggest for people not to use ravage in gore unless they know their opponent has used their cc already. Much better to use ravage outside of gore to provoke a cc of some sort and then go in for the gore + DB + VT combo. I get off 90+% of my gore windows...it's really not that difficult. On topic: honestly any marauder spec does very well in pvp for single target damage. My favorite is carnage. Though I do also enjoy fury and anni. Anni overall will put out the most single target pressure IMO.

Maybe I am one of the only ones to have a dramatic change in class preferences. I used to be operative fanboy thru and thru, but not so much. I used to dislike Merc and Mara and now those are by far my two favorite. I hardy play my powertech anymore and have played my sniper a lot. Only thing is I still hate sorcs. I guess at least something is right in the swtor world.

See that's the thing though. When I actually come across a remotely competent operative it gives me a little faith in the class I used to love so much. If an op can give me a hard time on any class, then they get a thumbs up from me. Most of the time the only time I see an op is when I'm at 20% and am fighting someone else. The pop out and bring me to 10%, but end up rolling away when I start attacking them. If an op opens up on me when I'm at full health, forces me to use my cooldowns, and maybe even kills me or makes me run away I feel happy. The mass majority of them do not do this. They look for people at sub 20% and then stealth out like little pansies. Or the bold garbage can be lured into a 1v1 where they get taken out. Then they come back with 2 other operative buddies and still end up running away. That's the trash I hate. I enjoy fighting good operatives though. Heck I am ecstatic when one actually kills me in a legit 1v1 as I know not all hope is lost. I always whisper those people afterwards to thank them for knowing how to play. 100% of the time while we talk I find out they have been playing since before 2.0. You generally like powertech and Merc right? Rocket punch root on Merc is just bad design IMO. Mercs should have gotten a ranged root. Then again the slow on blazing bolts is kind of annoying, but won't help you against an op. The op will get to you so I save my root for a burst hit. Since I know he is coming I will save a buffed up rail shot or heatseeker for that time. Rocket punch so they can't roll, burst, then rocket out. Blazing bolts to force roll or evasion and he will get to me eventually again. Knockback. Some more kiting and damage to force heals and rolls, but he will still get to me again. Stun to hopefully force breaker. At this point hopefully I can get off another heat seeker or rail shot. They should have a good amount of health gone unless they have been spamming kolto probe and in that case you should have most if not all of your health. Once they use break don't hit net yet as they will most likely roll unless you times it well enough that you know it's on cooldown. Once you know they don't have it up net and burst. That is usually how I kill ops on my Merc. Honestly I find it much harder on my powertech. Still a good competent op will still win. But mediocre to barely competent can get killed his way. You can face tank the trash operatives. IMO it's all about making sure to not waste heatseeker, rail shot, and net on roll and using rocket punch root offensively. Blazing bolts is good filler to force cooldowns and rolls...or just do damage if they are stupid.

Necro of old thread. I was thinking about this today and realized that my class preferences have changed quite a bit. Wondering how people rank their favorite classes now that it has been over a year. Fav to least Fav: 1. Marauder 2. Merc . . . . . . . 3. Jugg 4. Sin 5. Operative 6. Sniper . . . . . 7. Powertech . . . . . 8. Sorc (this is the only one that hasn't changed. Though I play my sorc more than my powertech and sniper). Honestly operative is only only ranked 5 for old times sake. They can still be a ton of fun, but the amount of tards playing them since 3.0 has really put a bad taste in my mouth with them. Plus I have found Mara and Merc to be so fun for the past year that I play those two the most. Has anyone else's preference changed?

Um this actually happens a ton on harbinger. Almost every team has at least two tanks and two healers. It's is VERY rare to only have one of both or none on a team.

I get pissed at the trash that picked up operatives in 3.0. So I will tunnel ops to rage quit often. Most of the time all you have to do is lure them into a 1v1 and then destroy them. It's honestly quite easy to do that to 99% of the trash that play operatives. Then they get butt hurt and rage and try to tunnel you for about 5 minutes. Proceed to kill them a few more times and more often than not they will rage quit in my experience. There are some douche bag sin players too, but honestly the kind of garbage that picked up operatives in 3.0 is what has made me stop playing operative as much. I enjoy killing operatives on my sorc especially since the people who play them nowadays also hate sorcs but also seem to think that they are automatically dueling gods. So yeah, I spend plenty of warzones taking the trash (operatives post 3.0) out. I still see some actual good operatives, but most of those already played the class before 3.0. I had always enjoyed my op through the glory days as well as the non glory days, but ever since utter rubbish started playing ops more I find more satisfaction in making that garbage realize playing an op doesn't make them good. I especially love it when they whisper me afterwards raging and saying they could take me in a duel any time. I ask when and where only to get put on ignore. Lol. But as much as I like destroying operatives nothing give me more pleasure than making a sorc rage quit by tunneling it. Winning is fun and all, but it is much more fun trolling sorcs. Because the trash that picked sorcs up in the last couple updates put even the garbage that picked up operatives to shame. Knocking sorcs off bridges never gets old. Dancing next to them while they are in barrier is also fun. Or taunting them with emotes. Tunneling them till they rage and scream in /say or /gen or /whisper is bliss. Those sorcs also whisper afterwards usually screaming about hacks or something stupid and then put me on ignore. That is when I know that I have been productive that day in swtor.

Honestly I remember when pub pvp meant "wow those guys are great." On both bastion and harbinger pubs used to be very good. In fact, on bastion I would say that pubs dominated up till maybe sometime in 2.0. Then it started to switch to imps. I also remember my first few toons on harbinger pubs were amazing. By the time I made my full transition over to harbinger though the pubs on bastion had been utter garbage for over a year and the pubs on harbinger were just as bad. That is what makes it worse. If the pubs had always been terrible it wouldn't be so bad, but the fact that they used to be great is what is sad.

Sorry, but this last part is BS. They are indeed broken. Separate and focus....lol. That is not happening in reg warzones where these are especially prevalent. Separate tank from healer may have been more viable before all the mobility buffs and cc escapes. Most healers are sorcs....good luck holding one down with cc. It would take a global, maybe two globals, for either the healer to get back in guard range or for the tank to. Neither the tank or the healer is going to die in that time frame if either have a brain...even under focus fire. Even if you had two pts one to pull the healer one direction and another to pull the tank in the opposite direction so they are 60m apart (which generally is much more separation than is normal) the duo would be back in range of each other within a couple globals I guaranty it. Jugg shank tank has more than enough survivability to survive those couple globals alone as does sorc heals. Separate and focus should be how to deal with tank + heals, but that is not good enough anymore. Especially when you put in the fact that most teams have more than one healer and tank. Shank tanks hit hella hard. It would be so big a problem for the tank + heals duo as thy traditional don't have much killing power...only staying power. Shank tank + heals has both and that is broken. They may not do quite as much as a dps, but the survivability added to their already tremendous damage for a tank allows them to dish out a ton of damage. A million damage + a million protection is honestly on the low end of performance for a shank tank in a regular warzone. TL;DR: separate and focus while on paper is correct is not really a viable strategy given the amount of mobility, cc escape, and survivability tanks and healers have in regs. Tanks having a crap ton of damage just makes it even more stupid.

Nope only maras get the auto crit for vicious throw. Juggs get an auto crit for either furious strike or impale depending on the spec. So it would be better to just keep the tank armorings, especially since they give a nice boost to survivability. I have two sets of gear for my jugg. I have a dps set and a "tank" set. For the tank I keep tank armorings, get dps implants and earpiece and saber. Then I pull out the mods and enhancements and replace with high endurance power/crit mods and enhancements. I also augment with a mix of power and crit. It give about 80k hp and you hit very hard. The hp pool and all the cooldowns make it kind of stupid really. Only reason I have that set of gear is to show people how stupid the high damage tank + heals combo is in warzones. A couple times per week (maybe 8-10 warzones total) my friend and I will queue up with me as my jugg tank and him on his sorc heals. We literally can have their entire team on us and it won't matter. I will either kill all of them or at least make them run away. If they are a decent team we will still keep at least 5-6 of them busy while the rest of my team is able to do whatever. Crushing blow will often hit 17-20k+ (and it can be aoe which adds insult to injury). Last tick of ravage often hits for 12k+. Scream will hit for 10-12k. A nice bursty combo (if a 20k crushing blow isn't good enough) is to use crushing blow + retaliation + scream...that can net you 35-40k if things crit nicely in just a couple globals since retaliation is off the global cooldown in tank spec. Heck I've gotten a 10k backhand. That and you have incredibly good survivability. Tie in a pocket sorc heals and nothing beats that. Especially since sorc heals are even more stupid than high damage jugg tank. It's stupid really. We just do it to try to make people realize how dumb it has gotten. Tank plus heals holding off 3-4 people for a moderate amount of time if they are good is okay, but easily holding down (and killing some) of an entire team with relative ease over and over and over and over is just plain stupid. I would say my friend and I are above average as we have been pvping since launch, but even a skilled duo shouldn't be able to do that. Sorry for the rant. I'm sure you know how skank tanks work. Just wanted to respond to your set bonus question then went off on tank + head rant. Jeez I really do sound like Cretinus....