would be better if it was the same amount of parses for every spec say 10 by newbie players of the spec, 10 by sm only, 10 by pvpers, 10 my hm and 10 by nim players per spec =) that's just my idea lol. but yeah even what we already have is an indicator of 'something ain't right here' i just meant that the dude who wanted 9.9k for madness is clearly expecting too much =) esp since the the max for ranged sustained / melee burst seems to be 9.4k by I.O. so anything more than that is not gonna happen by default lol:D:D

well. it's not THAT bad really, but indeed we need some +200 DPS to match up with at least engi lol. ... and fix to deathstack||force suppression would be nice. kinda tired of them being eaten by other sorcs and sins lol. but for sure the defensive utilities for cloud mind and unnatural preservation have and any other defensive u can find are not more or less a must or u shall melt super fast. :D

such silly this one. I.O. does around 9.4k, while the engi average seems to have dropped to 9.2k.. no way in hell would they let madness do more than that.

1) u say that madness can't be buffed again because it just got buffed. well in the same light viru just got nerfed... and oh hei, even if they do changes to the disciplines beside viru that'll leave madness even further down the pipe lol. because really. if I.O. & engi were some 100-200 ahead i doubt anyone would object they do have a tighter rotation and energy management, sure they deserve a bit extra love. but not to the point of 350+ that's getting a bit much. a lot of people are saying that madness doesn't deserve a bigger buff cause it's apparently more mobile. do they even even play the class at all? i mean, hei i might be doing something wrong. and indeed the only thing i need to channel is force lightning... but hei newsflash if i'm forced to stop and move, i'll not get the necessary 4 stacks and will have to channel it again once i'm positioned and such breaks are very unforgiving. As result most of the fight i have to camp in the same spot and not move at all for optimal dps outcome.... oh and be able to dot spread. aaand since not many fights will actually LET me stay still and certainly not all of them have adds... well.... bye bye good dps. by all means, i'm not the best sorc ever, i barely manage 9k. but still... that's a optimal rotation... on a dummy. anyway, i got off point, they won't be able to fix the difference between madness and virulence without either a) buffing madness or b) nerfing virulence even more. now i don't know about you, and i certainly have no clue what goes on in their brains... but i rather get a buff than see a spec nerfed twice in a month 2) and again about TK / lightning.... it's ranged burst spec that is supposed to do target dps - 5% , same as arsenal marksman. they won't buff lightning when they just nerfed arsenal to match it.

1) according to the devs: lightning is SUPPOSED TO do 5% LESS than madness; 2) virulence is stated to do 2.5% less than target DPS.... while madness is apprently AT raget DPS, so yes it's kinda supposed to do 2.5% LESS than madness. (and when i say madness i mean ALL the melee burst & ranged sustained specs) 3) no, i don't expect all those disciplines to do the EXACT same numbers, and a difference of 100-200 is perfectly okay.... but 400-500 is way overkill. :D:D

indeed. i'm by far not the best sorc around lol. and lol i think my max is like... 8.9k but the dps can be anywhere between 8.6 and 9 (for me at least atm) based on relic procs, overall crit & lag. :D:D

in fact i believe hatred assassin dots also eat them :eek: come on bioware, if u chose this for buff, at least FIX it to work right lol =) P.S.: can we please, please PRETTY PLEASE know what the target DPS actually is???:D:D

okay dude. calm down a little would you? it's sometimes really entertaining watching people blow up like this on forums, really. but most of the time it's even kind of sad. We're ALL entitled to have an opinion. And no, i for one would rather they get madness up on par with the disciplines they themselves stated it should do comparable numbers with. I mean really, what's wrong with us wanting to do more dps than a viru sniper??:eek: BioWare themselves said that: Concealment, AP, Rage, Deception, Engineering, I.O., Carnage & Madness - the melee burst & ranged sustained. should all be AT TARGET DPS. While virulence should be doing target DPS -2.5%. Now do I want them to nerf everything else so we can look good at their expense? HELL NO. But that IS indeed the track record for 5.3 instead of giving madness a good buff, they decided to nerf arsenal, engi, I.O. and viru. so really, while i'd love it to be balanced out through buffs a small part of me is suspecting they might not go that way. At the end of the day we do not actually know what the target DPS is, so we don't really know how close / far off we actually are of course and true, we don't have as much data available as our devs obviously. If you say your friends are so awesome at madness sorc.... maybe they should upload some parses... or better yet write the dulfy guide for the spec? we would love to have a up-to-date one for sure

much this. we do NOT want to be the next FOTM class, but really. if u say that viru is target dps -2.5% then.... shouldn't madness, i.o. engi, deception, rage, concealment, carnage & A.P. ALL do 2.5% more than viru? 0.o i don't mean that we want u to nerf more classes, but do bring engi & madness up to I.O. lvl lol:D:D

my best so far is 8.9k lol. and i just can't figure out *** i'm doing wrong LOL.:D

that. and maybe finally tell us what hte heck the target DPS is actually supposed to be lol

well, according to their post, viru is supposed to be target -2.5% lol, and if we look at the table on parsely it's like #4 highest parsing lol. so yeah something def. needs done and not just about sorc. might u it's still not totally accurate data, but much better than some dude yelling "no madness needs no buff cause i was luck in a w/z and my enemy stood in a pile so it was easy to dot-spread lol" :D

aaaaaaand to counter this, i've used the stats page on parsely & compared it to the dps groupings and what they should do compared to the still unknown target DPS and turned out this way: https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.enjin.com/users/4368134/pics/full/3952567.jpg P.S.: you know your thread is just as subjective as any other right? You might be lucky and have enemies cluster up in matches so you can have dot-spread all the time, but that's PvP and it isn't quite the same for raiding, especially HM & NiM raids.

indeed, according to that virulence is supposed to be target dps - 2.5%........ and it's atm #4 highest spec. at least based on the limited parsely data. which means they either need to nerf that again, or buff up the melee burst / ranged sustained to actually do more than viru LOL. then again to begin with, dear Devs, can you please TELL us what hte target DPS is supposed to be????:D

just saying, but i never have issues staying alive in ops unless the tank or healer are dead >.> if you mean in PvP... well... they seem to be in favor of their dear H2full. phase walk to a place the enemy won't spot u 1 sec later, heal up and go kill more thing. otherwise die and continue killing things.

thing is, this feedback needs to be based on proof. not just statements of: -buff us more or we quit -we deserve more buff -this sucks, fix it and etc lol. that only sounds like whining and tends to be ignored.:D

well.... u know.... i'm not sure lucky crit is what they base their class balance on. however both I.O. and viru still have issues with resource, while balance does not. so i suppose that's PART of the reason. but! more likely they might just not know how to buff it without making it too strong for PvP... or they might also have something in mind for utilities in august............. or actually i have no clue lol. but yes, i want at least 200-300dps buff lol:D:D this one was non-existent.... and fix them deathmark stacks finally lol

i think most of my alts have 246 mods / enhancements & 230 armorings for set bonus lol.:D

i say +300 mainly because from what data is available, viru & I.O. average around 9.4k with madness average seemingly at 9k :D plus, they did say that lightning / arsenal / MM is supposed to do mysterious target DPS-5%

Well, people like bringing up parsely data as a proff that this or that spec needs a look at. Of course many others are quick to shake the pitchfork with the 'it's only a minimal % of players that use that'. well then, how about we all (those that think that our chosen spec is not quite where it needs to be) take the bit of effort and actually upload them parses, not just those that got a very good one they want to show off. that way the statistics on parsely might be a bit closer to the actual situation. because really, saying that this spec is no good based on data provided by what.... 30-40 parses? if anyone got other ideas on how to gather said proof feel free to share lol . :D

no madness is NOT worse than lightning. the only thing worse than lightning are arsenal & marksmanship..... at least based on average parse data lol. but yes madness could use some +300 i think >.>

again, really depends on what you compare it to and what that comparison is based on lol. for example, the I.O. data so far. it received a nerf this time, and yet: also a ranged DoT spec (aka sustained), but unlike madness its' heat management is still very tight. I suppose BioWare logic is that you can't both have easy heat / force management AND do good DPS lol (again i'm just guessing). So the most complained about thing about madness was the force negativity. they chose to fix that over the deathmark stacks and the fact that their actual dps buff was pretty much a joke. Still, if you look only at the AVERAGE numbers, the difference between I.O. & madness is probably around in the 400-500 DPS bracket. of course that's only based on submitted dummy parses. we all know that it's very rare to be able to do the same dps on dummy and on boss, plus it's not like every player of this spec actually bothers to upload their parse, or even knows what the heck parsely even is lol :D P.S.: i would honestly prefer if the force was toned down a little and hte dps raised at least some 200-300 so it's actually not hard to keep ur force up and yet feel that yes BioWare actually gave us a buff. because +1% to DPS IS A JOKE!!!

what you want to look at htough is this, if you insist on using parsely data: http://parsely.io/parser/stats Balance / Madness 500k dummy: max 10274.83 average 9265.25 1.5 mil dummy: max 9689.53 average 8806.91 2.5 mil dummy: max 9640.16 average 9000.77 4 mil dummy: max 9184.42 average 8734.02 as u can see the difference between max possible and average is pretty big, though mind you, the statistics is build on the available data aka submitted parses, so it's not exactly 100% accurate. from the subjective data posted there it looks like lethality & watchman are the only two specs over 11k.... so something tells me it won't stay that way for very long. but yeah, at this point i'd rather see some extra buffs for the specs in the lower half to get them up a bit x.x

will try that opener for sure lol, because so far mostly i see opener like this on most parses: Demolish 17:03:59.308 Polarity Shift 17:03:59.542 Creeping Terror 17:03:59.863 Unlimited Power 17:04:00.775 Affliction 17:04:00.776 Advanced Polybiotic Attack Adrenal 17:04:01.062 Recklessness 17:04:01.974 Death Field 17:04:03.161 Force Leech 17:04:04.390 Force Lightning 17:04:06.068 Lightning Strike 17:04:06.962 Force Lightning 17:04:08.567 Lightning Strike 17:04:09.467 Force Lightning 17:04:11.277 Force Lightning another thing. does lightning strike actually do more damage than a full force lightning ? and do i clip said lightning if deathfield comes off-cd 1/3 or 1/2 into the channel? and will do on the hitting next ability after leech in mid cast, thanks for tip >.<

sigh, ok so now i can bubble people in raid if we don't have a sorc healer without running out of force...... but with bubble nerfed not sure it's really that worth it lol. as far as dps. well. so far i've managed this: http://parsely.io/parser/view/299263/0 and that seems like a lucky one htough, generally end up in the 8.6-8.7 area =( and outside of bad APM (which i really odn' think i can press buttons any faster tbh) i honestly have no clue what else i can improve here. clearly something... no clue what though:confused: