First off, this is a conversation of class and spec capability. Skill adds an entirely different factor, that ironically enough, is completely discounted by your side of the argument to begin with. You can not argue someone can come from behind from the effects of skill if your whole point is that "there is no spec or class that can hard counter hybrid Sorcs" and you're attempting to argue that "Merc DPS is not a hard counter to hybrid Sorc". Don't attempt to bring in the very point you've kicked out of the whole discussion to begin with as an attempt to overdramatize hybrid Sorc capability, when you've specifically made it clear that the comparison is through class and capability alone. And no matter what point you made add, Merc DPS > hybrid Sorc in capability. From the effects of skill, nearly any class or spec advantage that exists can completely fly out the window, as the game is "fair" and "balanced". That is my whole point: hybrid Sorcs are no where different and thus, are not overpowered/need any sort of nerf. Lol, I will tell you they aren't because they aren't. PTs got nerfed bro, they aren't viable in anything besides regs anymore. But I suppose you don't really understand that, considering this is sounding more and more like an argument for regs, not ranked PvP. And I've been playing matches against these little hybrids as a Madness assassin, which by class design, actually has the advantage in utility for controlling one through DoTs, a few ranged Force attacks such as Death Field and Shock that don't have any hard counters, and execute range abilities. They are below threat value imo, if you have the understanding of how to interrupt them. Funny, also, how you don't include the actual DPS number in addition to your friend's HPS score. Because if you want to argue that a hybrid Sorc is overpowered, then maybe you might want to show how this spec is doing too well in both DPS and HPS as a "hybrid" does both. 2.2k HPS isn't all that impressive either for an arena, tbh. Probably for stupid pugs to overcome, but again, this is kind of like how Concealment took a nerf because of all the crying people did: Balancing classes solves nothing, it's the players themselves that make impressions of them so negative. It's amazing, that no matter how many class and spec changes they make, this forum will always be filled with complaints. Simply because, like your little failed argument here, the specs aren't overpowered. You, or your team, was just too weak to compete. Oh, and provide a screenshot of that number next time as well, because I too can post something without any tangible proof backing it as a means to support my argument. So you're basically saying that the advantage isn't unfair? That they aren't unkillable, and thus, it falls under the category of "balanced" because it offers only a unique approach to the game, not one that is overpowered and needs to be nerfed? Because that's essentially what you just said, and basically just admitted defeat. Your repeated attempts to attack my server are also adorable, as it's like someone calling another a "no life" whenever they get stomped by that someone in PvP. GG kiddo, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Although, I don't agree with the match making problem. People just need to understand how to recognize a hybrid, since the technical definition of one requires even matching between two traits, which often isn't the case for these builds. Simply put, you can't put hybrids into the match making system because no one actually follows an even build in the trees for one, and the game prevents those even splits in trees to be even close to viable. So they follow what abilities someone is more specced into, over what roles they attune to better with that spec.

wtb madness assassin buffs offering ERP, will love you long time

I don't believe you understand the concept of a "fair fight". Think of it like Muhammed Ali against Liston, where by standards and regulations, it's a fair fight. But by unique strengths and weaknesses, the game can go either way and overall, your one spec in a variety of many can be countered hard by another. I guess you don't really know much about the different classes to understand how the developers specifically created a "rock, paper, scissors" type of scenario with not just "DPS, tanks, and healers", but with the very classes and specs themselves. Because your definition of "fair" and "balanced" PvP would call for each individual class to adhere to the same abilities and the same type of attacks in a manner where the only variety would be like comparing the mirror classes of the two factions. Your definition of "balance" will never exist in a game where each class and specific spec have unique strengths and weaknesses that can be capitalized on by other classes and specs. They aren't healers and tanks, they are hybrids. Amazing how you seem to lack the understanding that "tank charge + guard" doesn't make a viable tank. At least, not any builds I have seen. So unless you're going to make a post, detailing a hybrid tank spec that is overpowered because there is no spec or class capable of countering it, please stop. Because I've already given you one that has a substantial weakness yet can run effectively in WZs, which puts it on par with playing against teams where the average player is "decent" in skill. You do realize I've given you a class that directly shuts down these "more difficult to kill" hybrids right? Pyro Merc DPS: -Uncleansable (by Sorcs), elemental damage vs light armor, Force and slightly weapon based damage defensive centered spec -Extreme burst in Rail Shot thanks to massive armor penetration talent vs. a light armor target. -Electronet prevents Sorc from using Force Barrier when they are within execute range, gaining either a free kill in usage or forcing Sorc to waste both their break out ability and the super bubble at the same time. -If this is also the little stun bubble variation as well, Pyro Merc hard counters stun bubble by being ranged. Arsenal Merc DPS: -Tech based damage with one heavy hitting ranged weapon attack vs light armor, Force and slightly weapon based damage defensive centered spec. -Armor penetration from tech attack Tracer Missle heavily weakens light armor Sorc. -Kinetic based heavy hitting attacks such as Heatseeker missles lolburst light armor debuffed Sorcs. -Electronet again, hard counters Sorc super bubble. -If this is also the stun bubble variation, Arsenal Merc hard counters by being ranged. Please, go back up and read. I've made these points before, even listing how a well placed Concealment burst could also destroy a hybrid in arenas, due to the fact that the Acid blade DoT and EVERY single move in the Concealment rotation is tech damage and can not be countered by the Sorcs defenses except for the stun bubble, which any smart burst damage player will know when to open on a target that has stun bubbles. The problem is that Merc and Concealment DPS are hardly ever seen in WZs, given you're too busy trying to counter "rock" with your "scissors" by using melee DPS or even sniper damage correct? Stop playing your one toon and understand how classes work before you start complaining about another beating you fair and square. Answer: Merc DPS. Then your hybrids melt just as easily as any other DPS classes in the game, for reasons above. And like you said yourself: any class will drop fast under 4 DPS. Maybe you should coordinate with your teammates better if you want to overcome the meta as a weaker set of players. Funny, how quickly people become non factors when their FOTM specs are countered by unconventional ones. How easily, people assume the hybrids are overpowered in a manner similar to Marauders whining about Concealment DPS hard countering them, or how Snipers can't burst that mobile Operative healer. Get competitive, learn to coordinate better, and maybe you won't get stomped so hard in WZs. You are at a disadvantage because of three reasons: 1) It's your fault for bringing in an inferior spec to a WZ against the meta. Your Marauder, Jug, sin, or sniper DPS toon isn't going to be the answer to everything. 2) It's your fault for not being as coordinated with your teammates as the game required you to be in order to win. Work off your teammates better than just "let's gank this guy as 4 DPS" 3) It's your fault for not bringing in the class and specs that counter hybrid sorcs, Merc and Concealment operatives. A well placed burst from Concealment + a well timed Electronet alone could kill one, let alone the amount of utility being brought to an arena where you have 2 Concealment and 2 Mercs. None of those reasons imply a failure on Bioware's end, only yours. So suck it up and l2p baddie. Go ahead and laugh if you really want to, I guess. You're still losing, simply because you have just repeated points I've already countered with the concept of Merc DPS. So if you want to actually put up a decent fight, please tell me how Merc DPS isn't a direct counter to Sorc hybrids. Or you can stay down on the ground, choking on the dirt. Either or doesn't matter to me, I always enjoy it whenever I can easily break people with a few mean words and a couple of insults. Ego is the first problem, and it must be shut down before the learning process can resume.

This isn't about full healers. "Scissors" and "rock" are classification of two sides in a fight, similar to a Concealment Operative fighting against a Carnage Marauder. One class, based on their type of damage, playstyle and abilities has a massive advantage over the other, similar to "scissors" always getting beat by "rock" by very design. Hybrid sorcs, with mediocre heals and mediocre DPS, are the rocks. They can not hit nearly as hard as fully specced DPS Sorcs, nor can they heal as much as fully specced Sorc healers. Your meta classes, such as Deception sin, Snipers, and Marauders are "scissors" against them. It is a fair fight, but you are at a disadvantage. A "jack of all trades, master of none" matches up evenly with a "master of one, jack of none". Two opposites, different in playstyle, but even in balance. However, because the Sorc Hybrid is capable of hard countering snipers with their LoS and H2F, as well as most melee classes with stun bubbles and buffed Force Barriers, they are the new meta perhaps by unlikely designed. Not overpowered as you cry about, as a good Merc DPS can exploit their full specced DPS advantage with their overall class superiority on them. Merc DPS as well as Concealment burst at the right moments = "Paper"

Nope, because they aren't fully specced healers. Offheals aren't nearly as powerful as full heals, and that's what those are: off heals. Lol, what is this? Fourth grade? Are you really that desperate for me to stop pointing out that these hybrids aren't that strong that you'll just spam "you're wrong" as if you're making a point? I've seen these good arguments, and I've countered them. I still have yet to see someone try to deny Merc DPS being the hard counter, where the only attempt was to try and take out Concealment because they could be stopped. Arguing* is like fighting. Just because you have nice punches and have a game plan, doesn't mean you're not going to take a hit from another person*. Your response would be similar to, metaphorically, collapsing to the ground in one punch and writhing in pain. Keep trying to tell me I'm wrong down there, kiddo.

Lol, it's not a broke system. Your one DPS toon is scissors, hybrid Sorcs are rock. If you want to beat them, you need to become paper, Mercs or Concealment Ops/DoT specs. Or by some miracle, beat rock as scissors by overcoming the disadvantage. This game was never supposed to give everyone even ground, other wise they wouldn't even have strengths and weaknesses for different classes. Please stop whining just because you don't have the odds in your favor, that's part of the game kiddo. Sheesh, crybabies these days. Never said they were unbeatable, but considering how hybrid heals requires casting and Concealment can time openings past stun bubbles and has more utility for control while Sorcs need to completely drop major Cds to counter, 2 Mercs + 2 Concealment >>>>>>>> 4 hybrid Sorcs Then you aren't playing with good DPS. Because last time I checked, Jug DPS in Soresu and sin DPS in Dark Charge are beyond jokes in terms of competitive play. Or is this regs? Sorry, I had the assumption we were talking about ranked PvP, where the competition was tough? You know how to counter Innervate? Even when they have all of their little abilities up to try and stop you? Stun lock. And you can negate their whole plan of super bubbling with a couple of Mercs that have Electronets. And lol, really? You're trying to compare a lack luster Sorc hybrid build to the stun bubbles of old? Please, those were only "game breaking" to melee, this spec is just slightly more challenging for melee players to overcome. Too much for an entire team of "scissors" to overcome "rocks" is the real reason why you're losing, tbh. Not because they're overpowered, but because it's like bringing a Sniper DPS to stop an Operative healer. Just a bunch of lolling as they LoS and H2F. Nope, because skill will never be even across the board. Class balances and the like really only serve a purpose of satisfying blame for the most part, as everything has a weakness in this game. There's hardly ever a case where something truly is "game breaking" or "overpowered", examples being the absorb relic bug and the naked bolster bug. Yeah, that's why they're actually pretty easy to kill when they aren't the meta. That's really all it seems to be with a majority, tbh. People want to stack the deck in their favor, but when someone else gets a minute in the sun, they flip out because they aren't the ones in control of the game. And lol, actually no. 1300 solo, not group. Gots me a cool rancor and set of armor, like the rest of the better players don't worry. I just wasn't stupid like a good bit around here and placing all of my chips on random teams in solo. It's funny, how the real reason why hybrids are so OP is because the players are all over the place on the skill spectrum and the metas fail against them. And somehow, you think turning the meta back to you is going to fix the lack of skill across the board. Don't worry, if you ever decide to play a Merc or have a couple of Concealment ops in there against the four man Sorc hybrids, I'm sure you may have a fighting chance again. Since like them, you too need the deck stacked in your favor to even compete well.

Nope, I said that Merc DPS and Concealment DPS are heavy counters to the Sorc hybrids. But I know, you want your one toon to be capable of beating everything, so I can understand why you're whining so much. Which, funny story, is why you deserve every loss you get. Learn to play baddie, stop thinking your one toon is going to work in any situation possible as a meta. So you literally have no idea what it is your complaining about? "40k guy that can guard" is the best you can come up with in explaining what this hybrid spec is running? I don't think you understand how guarding works, first and foremost. The damage doesn't just magically *poof*, it transfers off from the person with the guard to the guarder. Most hybrid specs are weak here because of the fact that they aren't full mitigation specs, at least the ones I have come up with. IE, the only two advantages of one of my old hybrid specs used to have, before 2.7, was a high armor/damage reduction tank charged sin with an AOE reduction talent in Deception was to counter a vast majority of the meta, where most players played specs revolving around "Deception + Death Field" and "Smashers". But if you don't even know what these hybrids are doing, why are you complaining? You haven't even taken the time to understand these specs, first and foremost, and have the audacity to complain just because they beat you on a front you know nothing about? You know, it's actually simple concepts really. The weakness in "jack of all trades, master of none" is in the "master of none" portion. Their healing and damage mitigation isn't nearly as high as completely specced healers and tanks nor do they have the damage output capability of a fully specced DPS, meaning they don't have an advantage over you just because they are stretching themselves thin in a different way than you are. And because you don't know how to counter this type of play, they are farming you. The only reason why it looks like so, is because they know what the meta specs and classes are and they know their hybrids can't be touched by melee sins and precious little Marauders/Snipers. The answer to their spec is in the two worst classes for arenas, Mercs and Operative DPS, and also in specs such as Madness and Lethality, highly frowned upon specs because they ruin the "mez the team, pick a target to gank" strat. It's a win win for them, because they know you won't play anything besides your one toon, just like how Snipers whined so hard about Operative Heals being so overpowered. You are the scissors, rock doesn't need to get nerfed to make you feel better about yourself. But I know, I suppose it is a religion to be able to play a game mode without having to rig the odds in my favor to even put up a fight. It's amazing, how many people can't seem to function in a competitive environment around here without having the deck stacked in favor of their team. L2p baddies.

It's not at all. I've seen three smart DPS coordinate in an arena against a fully specced healer in the first ten seconds with a kill, the hybrid Sorcs aren't going to pump out more than a fully specced healer. So there's your first counter to where a team can succeede against one with a healer: better coordination and smart team play. Secondly, I asked merely for the "skank tank" build you are referring to, as there are a variety of different tank hybrids out there with not only sins, but Jugs as well. In particular, a spec I run is a combination of high Deception and a little bit of Darkness, which easily finds it counter even in the meta for Marauders, Carnage, outside of Deflection as well as in specs like Madness and Lethality outside of Shroud. Since you seem to believe the only way to win is to play whenever everyone has the same odds at victory, I'm sure the difficult solution you seemed to forget is that Merc DPS, both Pyro and Arsenal, have a good range of utility in controlling the "overpowered" hybrid Sorcs: -Ranged stuns for the sprinters -Ranged interrupts, as a means to counter Sorcs who can kite melee and get casts off by gaining distance. -Electronet. Amazing how Sorcs can't bubble through it, unless they want to waste their only break free? Or better yet, since this is solo ranked and likely a situation where Sorcs that use their bubble at 25%/close to death and have already used the breakout to escape another close call, they'll probably die and wither without the ability to use their one true escape method since Electronet would render one into a sitting duck if they were attempting to save their bubble without their main breaker available. Let's also take a look at the second spec that many people seem to be forgetting: Concealment DPS. -You have about as much methods of control as a Jug tank, and Sorcs suffer against controlling specs -Extreme, well placed burst counters Sorc capability any day. Main reason why Concealment's KD was nerfed = to make sure Sorcs weren't too easy for them to solo. -Did I mention how much controlling effects you wield? So no, your Sorc overlords are not that overpowered. They're just overpowered to your Marauder and Sin DPS toons, maybe you should try and play something besides the meta in a queue to counter other specs. That's what PvP is supposed to be about, stop whining because your scissors can't beat the rocks. However, like I said, give me a "skank tank" spec that is game breaking, as the only whining I've seen being made about a (probably) unlikely meta in the game are the Sorc hybrids. All the other tank DPS specs I've seen have very key weaknesses to them, please prove me wrong if you can.

I'll admit, I don't exactly know which spec in particular you are referring to with "skank tank", as I know there are a variety of builds for sin DPS tanks in particular in addition to having not spent a lot of time entering ranked after season one. So first and foremost, go ahead and give me the number stats for each of the different specs you think are game breaking, and I'll give you a counter to them.

Simple: you change your playstyle after being beaten. Learning from your mistakes requires you to make one first, you know. Sometimes, you're not going to be prepared for losses. Instead of whining about it on the forums, maybe you should try and come up with a counter to it. Because the hybrid spec is far from game breaking, you can still adapt to it and diversify the game by playing more than the one toon.

Maybe it's time for you to reroll? Can't always expect to win with those Marauders and Sins, you know. It's nice to hear that some people may need to look at playing different classes and specs to beat those hybrids in ranked.

repair your gear, noob

Just a request, because I got this lovely Heirad outfit sitting in my inventory and might actually go for the cone shoulder look if the armor didn't show the belly button and make it look like a failed attempt to add some sort of sex appeal to a perfectly dark Sithy outfit. Pretty please with sprinkles on top?

Because that won't work. All it takes for someone to create this system again is by having more skill than anyone else and being competitive about it. In the end, all match making will do outside of "ranked" and "unranked" PvP is separate people enough to the point where they will have to find a new source to blame their failures on. Because like you, many refuse to believe the problem lies in the competitive spirit of the game and can't stomach the fact that they won't always have control.

Just to add on to first poster's advice: -The only time you should ever use Shock is if you have a spare charge of Recklessness left over or you are really desperate for a kill move and that is the only attack you may be able to activate. Like Maul, it's too force draining to use effectively in a rotation, so only use it as a "gamble move" or if you have a Recklessness charge left to get a little more burst damage. -As the second poster put, Madness is a very paper skinned spec. You are basically a melee kiter, having the ability to fight as a melee DPS and use the utility of one, but your best survival comes in make sure you know how to keep the enemy focus onto someone other than you.

Please At the end of the day, there are an overwhelming majority who will hide behind the excuse of "it's just a game" to dodge responsibility for a failure. People are contradictory: they want to have fun, and they label fun as tangible rewards, such as winning WZs, having hard fought WZs, clearing operation bosses, seeing content, or making money. What people still fail to see is that just like the real world, all of these things require effort and work unless you are the most talented player in the game, gifted with knowledge without having any real experience and can do everything without trying nearly as hard as someone who may not have all the answers in their head from the start. In the end, it boils down to what people define as having fun: playing the game overall, or the achievements you make. People need to stop choosing the latter if they keep saying "it's just a game". Because no one accomplishes anything without putting effort into something and being somewhat serious, in real life or the virtual world.

It's pretty simple, honestly. Selfish = motivation for an action to appease one's self. You play with the constraint of time, advocating that you do not bother forming teams or play with others due to any sort of inconsistencies that fit your own window of play time. This, by the very definition, is selfish. Just as how people advocate "playing their own game" and actively presenting themselves as people who do not go out of their way to help others. How do you expect to breed any sort of team play if you present yourself as only a selfish player? Where, even if your actions may differ in a WZ, all you really talk about and promote is yourself? Message gets twisted, therefore you confuse people by example. Thus, creating a problem. You seem to forget how the impact of the randomization of the queue is supposed to create balance through RNG. For starters, the bolded underlined part. There shouldn't be a set of people who get farmed and basically provide themselves as only "cannon fodder" for worth in matches where each player is pulling their worth and is decent. It doesn't matter how talented another enemy team is, there isn't a skill level where a player can't put up a decent fight if the target is actually decent in skill. Secondly, the four hand chosen teammates should not be a problem on a game with a population of at least 100-200 players that actively queue for PvP, good or bad. To separate groups based on a queue system would lead to even more one sided and drastic imbalances in a queue, where you pull the elite level premades to fight against people who simply wish to group as friends, completely discouraging everyone from entering the group queue in true imbalance of skill itself. If the population as a whole was more competitive in spirit, the power of hand choosing 4 players of your own wouldn't be able to control the random queue population itself. It is not an overpowered feature of the game, it's only a problem now due to the incredible imbalance created by pugs who by an overwhelming majority, allow these groups to play god on a server and dominate a queue without so much as a fight. You won't change that by giving groups their own proving grounds, people will still control queues and imbalance game modes as long as their individual impact is as powerful as you agreed to. That is the problem, please stop blaming the group system when the individual worth of each member is the true problem. And what happens if you change the pug player base to where the overall majority are decent in skill, and are willing to work as a team? You create competition, no matter who the four people are on a side in the premade. It's as simple as that, as the main reason why people are not competitive and refuse to work on a team is the pathetic excuse of leadership on the servers; either taking great pains to stomp and farm these pugs, doing their best to keep any helpful information away to preserve an image of maturity/respect, or advocate that the pugs should continue to follow their path of selfish motivation and lack of consideration in the ideology that "it's just a game". And that is the problem, separate queues would only force imbalanced group matches of frustration and allowing solo individuals to cause imbalanced solo matches of frustration. Why should anyone have an advantage in PvP? I mean, it's as if advantages aren't supposed to be given, since all the classes and specs are aptly designed in a manner where everyone is at the same starting point and requires the same effort level to overcome. Oh wait, actually that's completely wrong: the game has always been designed to force people in either an uphill situation, or giving them a head start. Do you really think the devs designed the classes and specs as "rock, paper, scissors" because they wanted everyone to be on equal footing? The premades are no different, like 3 DPS versus 2 and a healer. The problem, again, is in the skill of the players, because only bads get farmed in one sided matches. Competitive players, whether or not they are decent or elite, will always put up a fight and it will never be just one sided, as many people often complain WZs are. Quoted for recognition, but this point is countered above. Good players, by nature, are not selfish and work as team players. That's what makes a player decent by nature, any other set of skill improves that quality to "good" or "elite" And again, I don't really see how you're mixing this up in your head, but the problem is choice. Pugs are an annoyance when it comes to cooperation, as people are more than capable of doing so. But just because someone has the capability to do so, doesn't mean that they tap into the potential. Having the dream means nothing if you don't act upon it, I guess as a metaphorical reference. That is not a contradiction, to say someone has the potential and at the same time, that they haven't fulfilled that potential. It's a simple as that, which again: The problem is choice. Please see above for the first point. Second point is addressed better below. It isn't a perfect solution, as people will still win and lose with victories that mean nothing. But it's how little community sport leagues and rec center based competitions succeed. Simply because everyone, no matter the skill level, shows up to play competition. While your match making ideal is rooted in fallacy by the very foundation of "skill can not be measured in numbers". Not neccesarily no. They exploit a team's lack of coordination very easily, seeing counters and solutions to situations in WZs based on "this sorc is dumb as a bag of rocks, burst it to zero really fast." When two sides show up for a fight and one side is incapable of even fighting, the person who is able to fight will always dominate them. Not because that person is neccesarily too strong or has an unfair advantage, but because the person who is incapable of fighting needs to either quit or learn how to fight. Or, better yet, you can work towards eliminating the problem of "bad quality". It's actually very simple, how people who understand competition and how escalation as a whole works will always pull their weight because they understand there is no level of skill where you're safe. Where, as a community, the quality of PvP progresses because you eventually develop a situation where there are no more completely stone players that just sit there and let themselves get bursted to zero without even a reaction in the first place. And why should it matter? If you do not wish to have the odds stacked in your favor because you want to stick to a time constraint, why should you complain about not having the advantage? When you don't take the time to form a team, build player skill with others, or wonder how better you can improve pug teams overall? Welcome to competition, where because of experience and overall talent, you will never see a reputable reason for the devs to deliver a patch that allows people to start from the same positioning on the line. You will not have the same starting point that the veterans have because you may not be as experienced as them. Metaphorically, you and the pugs are already on the same starting line as premades are, thanks to queue randomization of the player base. But what else are you going to expect, when they take a lead in the first 20 meters of the 5k race and you can't overcome it because of the fact that "pugs being selfish" is metaphorically "being too weak to keep pace"? Whine and complain that someone is too good and that they don't belong in the race? Only non competitive bads do that, and ones who prefer to care more about W/L records find that sort of setup to be unfair. When in reality, because this game is competitive, there isn't an advantage an enemy or group can have over you that can't be overcome by a decent player. Where, as a decent player, you understand the concept of PvP itself: competition. That is the problem, where a population seeks to change that concept to suit their needs and desires in the form of separation queues. You can't figure this out on a pug team? That's weird, I can tell when there's a good healer just by analyzing actions they may perform in the starting area of a WZ, and a good tank that knows how to survive and peel for others in the first few seconds of confrontation of an enemy team simply because my wider vision allows for me to analyze how others play, even if I don't know them personally. The only people who don't understand this type of coordination are people who need to be told what to do every single second of the match. And that's why they fail: because being a premader isn't going to teach you the unspoken coordination either. You have to learn to think for yourself, and realize how each player themselves affects a WZ. That doesn't take premading to figure out, pugs are just as capable of working off each other past the first ten seconds of any match just as well as premaders. And that's the problem: pugs don't have that thought process even though it is MORE than likely for you to be able to do that. I have done this exact same thing, having run to a door and the only reason why this strat worked is because: -I saw my teammate in stealth somewhat close to the door -I saw the lone enemy defender looking directly away from the objective itself. So what do you do? You open on them and angle yourself to guide the enemy's vision and overall, the ninja capper succeeds. He also, being a decent player, did not need for me to type to him "Go now" or any sign of indication other than the understanding that if the player is focusing on your teammate, he may not have an eye on the door. And you know what that guy hit, end of the match? As a DPS sin, only 150k, as both an offensive player and defending the door being pressured. He was not as skilled as DPSers and couldn't burst healers down as effectively, nor did he really have much of an understanding towards enemy defensive CDs or how he himself was getting peeled. But as a team player, he knew basic fifth grade level tactics that resulted in duplicating this "unfair and unspoken" coordination that premaders have that have been presented as something that can only occur if you "know your friends and teammates" inside and out. No, you don't need to have that level of personable interaction with someone to know how to play off them. Pugs themselves just lack a sense of being able to read others, simply because all they focus on is themselves. Which, again, the problem stems from choice. Error in logic = Belief that stat and experience point indication will aptly create a system that will match players based on similar level of experience when in reality, people will not be matched by similar level of experience by an exploit as simple as leveling an alt of an elite player. Doesn't get any simpler than that tbh. Simple: because they haven't. You just believe they have been, in a misguided sense that somehow, not being in perfect sync with another and losing a race to the top means you've been cheated. When overall, they've made the same leaps and bounds you and others may think impossible. Someone's made that gap clear before, believe it or not. Either find a way to scale it yourself, or recognize you probably aren't going to clear it. Don't blame the skilled players just because they were able to do and argue as if they have an unfair advantage by doing so. It's the reason why this argument even exists in the first place. Because at the end of the day, it's about someone crying wolf about an advantage/disadvantage they think is unfair that actually isn't. No it won't, because all it takes to completely undo that system is leveling alts, one of the most advertised activities devs try to push the player base into doing. With a match making system based on experienced so easily countered by leveling alts, you are basically wasting resources creating a system that will provide improvement that you probably won't even see or notice. Thus, a waste of time and effort. It is QQ because it is a) selfish motivation and desire that leads you to believe the game caters around you, in a competitive environment. And b) because you wouldn't argue against the notion of premades and players playing together if you didn't overdramatized the effects of hand picking 4 playes that shouldn't create a problem if every individual pug was at least somewhat capable of providing worth to a team. To expect "mediocre" as a standard of player in a competitive game mode isn't unrealistic in the slightest. But it won't happen, as long as people continue to promote ignorance of how the standard of the game is always changing thanks to escalation, and how the game will only improve if the weakest of the player base decides to step up their game to be able to compete with the players who consistently improve day after day. Instead of removing the top level of players because they use a system that hand chooses four people in a queue that should completely imbalance any sort of overwhelming advantage they bring based on random player skill from pugs. But since the overwhelming majority of the player base is terrible, all you see are one sided matches. Which again, won't get fixed by queue separations or match making systems.

Petitioning to rename raid group from "Crests of the Dread Masters" to "The Bread Guard". Please sign below with "/signed" if you wish to support the rename. Thank you

You know how that's done, right? Turning off the computer. That's ultimately the conclusion I came to after reading that thread for the first time, but I tried to be sympathetic as the game's system should really have a feature that prevents people from autoflagging by accident, by having an option that allows people to keep flags off by not being able to guard/heal/assist any flagged players in any type of action. This guy is a know humanitarian egotist, believing that there is a rampant bullying problem around here as negative as his past life experiences which is why he undoubtedly sparked this topic in the first place. I think he has me on forum ignore for basically telling him off for placing that sort of negativity on everything that is PvP, and stating this vendetta of his against any and all negative reinforcement is as silly as his ignorance.

The power of negative reinforcement is a contradictory method of teaching, often failing in the real world due to the overall personal "face to face" aspects of human interaction. Take for example, a big guy that's 7'3 and a little guy who's 5'4. The 7'3 guy is as ignorant as a bag of rocks, and doesn't know anything about the game as a 55 end game player. The 5'4 guy is an experienced veteran, has what many of you would describe as "little man syndrome" and openly harasses the 7'3 guy for being a bad and giving him a torrent of insultive criticism. However, because the 7'3 guy is, in this case, thick skinned and finds useful information from the 5'4 guy's angry ranting such as using his stuns to peel for a healer from "you're a f****** tank, peel the enemy attackers instead of being a useless POS!", he improves his game and becomes a better player because he does not have the intimidation factor he can bestow onto the 5'4 guy if this was a face to face interaction. Had this been a real life encounter, the 5'4 guy would have never spewed forth the criticism and because this is a real world scenario and not "fantasy uplifting approaches to human psychology", the small tidbits of useful information that could help improve the 7'3 guy would never have come to light, as the 5'4 man would not have found a nice way to put it out of his own frustration towards not only the big guy being ignorant, but also unable to voice it without getting smashed into the ground. Welcome to the internet, where negative reinforcement is actually the best method of teaching. Simply because of the lack of face to face and personable reactions taking away both negative aspects and positive aspects of human ego. Meaning, if you want to be right here, the strategies of talking over others, being louder than the next person, and using other muscles to make your points instead of the most important one aren't going to save you. Get a back bone and stop taking text so harshly. Let the negative reinforcement improve you as either an individual or a player, and ignore it if it goes too far same as you learn about people giving you praise (which, actually, I think some of you need to work on this as well since a good bit of people don't know how to take a compliment and remain humble). The joys of hiding behind a keyboard and a screen are limitless, as long as you stop trying to turn it into the real, personable world.

Would prefer if people kept their little humanitarian egoism to themselves instead of posting threads directing others to it as a means of attempting to argue that somehow, bullying is an overly rampant problem here. Especially the ones who, ironically enough, devote their hatred and egocentric stubbornness towards fighting against the aspect of fighting, rather than just actually fighting. The game would be such a wonderful place if people didn't take the events that happened in the game as personally as they do with real life.

Actually no, it's a logical assessment. You seek to play within your own requirements, you advocate to the masses that you prefer time over team play. Because of this, you choose to be a selfish player, only concerned with playing for themselves. Your WZ actions may differ, but by the method you choose to present yourself, you contradict your playstyle for others to see and show the community a completely different point of view, if your anecdotal evidence is even true. Amazing, really, how your intended message can be so easily twisted? Funny how even the slightest show of selfish action can basically undo an image of team priority to people you don't know, isn't it? And it's getting quite annoying having to repeat myself, but the problem isn't the fact that the players were hand chosen. The problem is the amount of skill the players had. Whether or not you seem to comprehend how the game works, four skilled or unskilled players have enough impact on a match to completely twist the game in favor of either them or the enemy. It's amazing, how people are so blinded by this group system that they can't seem to understand that the reason why a premade succeeds or fails is all on the amount of skill held by every single player in that match. Every. Single. Player. So if four people have enough skill to completely dominate in a WZ queue, what does that say about the other 8 competing against them? That, overall, they can get outsmarted and outplayed by just four people? Or that 4 people are so terrible, 4 more can't compete against the enemy's 8 because they're literally just wasting space as players and not competing? Instead of blaming the fact that people are grouping, maybe you should, again, take a look at the problem in all of those scenarios: skill. That is the only flaw that remained consistent, as you have no justification to how bad premades are overpowered while I can apply the argument of skill to that factor as well. Because you have no sound argument in explanation to bad premades, only good ones, and I have one that covers both sceanrios, that means my logic makes more sense than yours. In simple terms, you are wrong. That's not a contradiction bud. Pugs are completely capable of cooperation, but choose not to out of selfish reasons. They do not have a responsibility to a team, therefore, they fail out of selfish motivations and desires. Because of things such as this: Every single one of those problems stems from two sources: egocentric natures or ignorance. And one of those should be well corrected by the time they reach 55, especially one so simple as "knowing the chat system exists". So again, the problem is choice. People choose to be selfish, to play their DPS specs, and never question why they get farmed by premades who choose to play as a team, despite having a capability to work off another through competency alone. The problem exists because pugs choose to play for themselves while premades choose to play as a team. If pugs chose to play as a team, extreme and completely imbalanced beatdowns would no longer exist. I find it astonishing how after being in a competitive game mode such as PvP for more than a few minutes, people still haven't figured out that point. Lol, some games? Try nearly every match with pugs, an overwhelming majority of the player base is so rooted in selfish motivation over anything that they can't possibly hope to work on a team with another. Premades don't succeed off their own amazing skill, as there are only a few of those premades that force you to remember their individual names rather than the matching guild tag underneath them. They succeed off the blatant lack of skill from the enemy team, which comes in severe lack of coordination that has been proven. When a game mode has reached a point to where "pug farming" can occur, the problem isn't the "overwhelming skill of the elite". When someone can literally take on 4 people at once as one player in a game like this, the problem isn't the skill of that one individual. The problem is the skill of the four, who should always win thanks to the capability of stun locking and common sense. When a group of four can so easily dominate a group of 8 in mentality, then it's time to look at the real problem: the 8. Any other path is a direct dodge of responsibility, as pugs are so easily ready to dismiss like you are demonstrating here and over dramatizing the amount of skill brought into the game mode by four people. Please. The only way this can occur is when there is a premade of excellent players who know how to work off a team that are well geared, versus a pug with 4 DPS who don't know how to survive, how to maximize their damage, how to peel and stun lock for their teammates getting focused, and also have terrible gear. You give those 4 DPS gear, you give them 5 seconds longer in the fight at best. One problem in that list is solved You give those 4 DPS skill, and you have a competitive match that will end with a hard fought result, no matter who wins. Simply because 3/4ths of the problems there have been solved. 3 > 1 Skill > Gear. But even then, the developers have made it a point to make sure the true path is actually underlined as: 3 < 4 Skill < Skill + Gear See how the game works? Doesn't matter how shiny the armor or how big the gun is, it really depends more on the person wielding it. 1 will never be more important than the three. Amazing no matter how prevalent this quality is in life, people swear against it up and down here just because they aren't the meta and they don't control the game. Something to think about. Experience and competency led to the discovery of being able to see a teammate's lifebar fluctuating and taking it as a sign of being attacked. Experience and competency also grants basic vision, where you can see a person getting attacked by 5 individuals and realize their goal is to burst them down. Experience and competency leads to being able to also understand the different classes and roles, and analyzing as a comp what can be done against another (Hint: 4 DPS can actually still overcome a tank, healer, and 2 DPS combo if you play it right and depending on what classes you have as the 4 DPS and what kind of tank, healer and other 2 DPS are). So no, premades aren't the only ones with that luxury. If you can't cooperate with someone on a team based off their roles, spec, and class alone, then you need to do some more research about the game and step your game up, or encourage people to step up theirs. Undoubtedly, you'll question why you have to look up answers for yourself rather than expecting premades to drop to your level. But Bioware and EA are more concerned with progression of the player base, as are real competitiors. PvP is escalation. Sorry you're getting left behind in the dust, but no one's going to slow down in the race just because you want to win it. Course it is a counter. A player with tremendous amounts of experience and skill has a fresh level 55 toon with fully optimized gear for WZs thanks to Legacy gear transfers, existing in a system that only measures skill based off experience points. That, in case you missed the definition of fallacy, is an exploit in the system. So why create a system like that if there is already a simple counter to that? Simple, they don't. Because unlike you, Bioware understands that you can't measure skill through separate queues, matchmaking, or true class balance. Bioware understands that at the end of the day, there is no numerical function, no set in stone system that they can create to develop a PvP environment that players will always have fair and equal matches because the whole point of PvP is escalation. You get beat, you come back from improvements and beat them. They get beat, they come back with improvements, and they beat you. The game is a ladder, climbing up to the top every single day instead of sitting in the same place or worse, asking for others to move down to suit your selfish motives and desires. As I have said over and over again in this thread, you want fairness? You want good quality PvP? You want success for this joke of a community's outlook on PvP? You encourage the masses to be competitive. The only flaw in this game's system is the people who queue, casuals seeking to turn a competitive game mode to suit their needs just because they are the majority. You may be able to vote and change that the color red is now blue, you may convince the entire society that red is actually blue. But no matter how hard you fight, no matter how much you exhaust yourself on this little crusade, you can't change the fact that by its composition and definition, it's still red. At least not as long as I am here, countering your fallacies and ignorant points. You want a system that matches people based on similar levels of stats and records, a system that measures a person's capability in a WZ based off past matches and numbers hit in categories. In simple terms, you are asking for a system that matches people based on overall skill in a WZ. In case you need this spelled out a little more for you, you're asking for a measure of skill because you are asking for a system that measures skill. Which again, is flawed and a numerical fallacy because you can not use numbers to measure skill indefinitely.

You sound like a wonderful team player. No wonder teams seem to farm you in a team based game mode, since you don't seem to realize the problem comes from a lack of collaboration with others. Maybe if this mentality of "only look out for yourself" wasn't encouraged at all and the "play as a team" type of viewpoint was championed over the selfish one, you'd see an improvement. But I suppose it's unfair of me to expect/attempt to try and change this selfish attitude people seem to approach PvP with. Even if the answer to the problem of "bad quality PvP" really lies solely in the approach people have with the game mode. And I've seen four man premades of PvErs and RPers who drastically countered the game in favor of the enemy team. You're not cheating, you're just hand choosing your team. If the queue population had an ounce of competitive spirit in their bones and the learning process of taking mistakes and making adjustments, no one would get farmed. Instead, we have people blaming the concept of team play as ruining WZs when pugs are perfectly capable of doing the same. Premades are not special, it's this lack of cooperation of pugs that is the real problem, born from a systematic rejection of responsibility and a selfish desire to play a game only for themselves. Funny, how having the attitude of looking out for yourself fails miserably in a team game mode. It's like the devs are trying to tell you something.... Answer: It isn't to premade, but to work as a team, something pugs are more than capable of doing if people stopped being selfish like you are demonstrating. The first step is to actually ask yourself, "how can I help this specific team/why is this team failing so miserably against the other one?". The second step is to make sure you are right in your assessment, not automatically believe your analysis is undeniably true. Nope. Pug players can have experience as much as premaders can; you don't have to know a player personally to know how to work off them. People just suck too much and don't want to improve/don't really know how. Might as well ditch the negative nancy attitude and maybe encourage people to stop being simple minded and selfish, since working on a team requires you to do things that are completely opposite to those two qualities. Counter: what if an elite PvPer makes a new toon and levels them to 55 without a single WZ match, using the legacy gear system to put BiS PvP gear onto the toon before even entering a WZ? What happens if a premade of those PvPers decided to do the same, and bypasses the system by numerical fallacy I just illustrated. You can not measure skill, there is no numerical method that can analyze a player's potential in a WZ. That is why you will never see real match making, as "unranked" and "ranked" PvP is enough to support a population like SWTOR's casual player base.

Dat after bubble + sorc bubble right as the acid starts = OP tbh

It is, and you are welcome One of the things my server lacks is someone that can apply actual team damage in the game modes, who has the ability to actively place pressure on more than just one target. Madness sin has a very unique advantage in combining the utility of a ranged kiter with assassin cooldowns/tricks. In the hands of a good player, it is the perfect spec for fighting in unranked regs, as they are probably the best specs that can really pull something completely out of no where to beat the meta. It is probably the best fluff damage spec out there, as the assassin class has always found its strengths in the creativity of the user. And when you have an uncleansable dot ticking on every single person in an area, the self heals are pretty solid if you can manage to get yourself going well enough. As for extremely competitive ranked play, I have yet to find a set of people I actually would want to play that level of competition with as well as a group that has seen really intense combat. But of course, I have played "lesser ranked" matches, since that's what my server mostly is anyway, and it actually is sometimes a good advantage you can have over an enemy when you know they're going to target you from the start