It's arguable sure, but I honestly don't think so. And I don't think she's a troll. I honestly just think it takes all kinds to make the world. Most have thought processes that are understandable. Perhaps strange, perhaps wrong, perhaps stupid.... But at least understandable. Reality is though, there are some people whose brains just don't fire the same way. What, to them, is a perfectly rational deductive leap is nonsensical to most. I believe the studio knows perfectly well we do not like this system. I believe they know perfectly well most people do not. But I believe the studio believes only a sustainable number of accounts will be cancelled, and those numbers will be offset by FTPs becoming subscribers and CM purchases such as CXP boosts and the sure-to-be-coming legacy CXP perks. I think this is a monetization program for them, and in no way shape or form is it intended to be more "inclusive". I can't see the need for the studio to really care whether solo players have gear. I believe Aowin just wants people to see her posts and that validates her in some way. I do not see anything compelling in her thought processes, only circular, disjointed squealing. IMO the studio probably cringes, as she does not do much to make the system look better. I get a kick out of her TBH. Because I honestly think she's really trying.

The first half of your statement is correct. I am not even slightly interested if this system is a blessing to 85% of the playerbase if it sucks the fun out of the game for anyone else. Not that I believe it is, of course. I certainly do not see anything in game, or here on the forums to suggest your "85%" has any basis in fact. Or reality for that matter. But I am certain you have exactly zero insight into this that I do not. As such, you shouldn't say "a blessing to 85% of the player base" - you should be saying you have no *********** idea. That said, even if this was a blessing for 85% of the playerbase, It could have very easily been implemented in a manner that changed nothing in how PvP or PvE gearing has historically been done. What is the upside of ostracizing 15% of the players aside from the fact you're not included in it? I do not think this game should be pushing anyone away. Period. Personally, I think you have the numbers backwards, but that's just an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and common sense. As for the second part, I'm sorry but saying that about me makes you look stupid. I was anti HHM the day it came out. I want NM loot on NM bosses. I want HM loot on HM bosses. I think EV/KP don't belong in these loot schedules. I am not asking to be geared already. I do believe though, when my team has a NM boss on farm, the team should get a piece of gear off of it. Some of those fights took my team weeks to sort out. I've literally spent over $5M in repairs just getting a few mid-tier teams past Revan, which isn't that difficult of an encounter. That ought to be worth more than a few hundred CXP. Reality is right now, a team benefits more from throwing snowballs than wiping for three hours on a boss before killing it. I am not sure seeing a problem with this is illogical. I'm pretty sure you've never presented anything resembling reasonable discourse. You have far larger blinders than I do. I have my opinions, and I try to present them in a logical manner. I do not make up statistics or facts to use as supporting data for my argument, as you do all the time. As you've done in this post, in fact. I wasn't aware you had access to the data showing the happiness of the playerbase. But that won't stop you using that imaginary data as the cornerstone of your argument with me. Your definition of middle ground is agreement with you. I do not pretend to look for middle ground. I call it as I see it. I do not think this game benefits from artificial time sinks gating stale content. I also do not think the game should need them. I believe a studio with this IP ought to be able to produce content that stands on its own, for all playtypes. I have never once - literally, never - suggested making all gear available to everyone is a bad idea. I do believe though that there is nothing inherently broken with allowing PvP players to gear quickly via PvP, or Operations players to gear quickly via Operations. You've tried hard to argue otherwise but I haven't heard anything that made me think you have a valid point, nor have you debunked my point of view with reason. I honestly think it's funny you believe my perspective is destructive as it seems far more inclusive than yours. Regardless, I reply to you for fun, not because I or anyone else takes you seriously. I just get a kick out of seeing how far you'll stretch reality to try to make your point.

I talk to pretty much everyone in every pug I've been in since 5.0. I'm talking hundreds of people. I have not heard one single person say anything even mildly positive about GC/CXP/RNG. Maybe all the people that love it are doing something else, I don't know. But I have yet to come across someone happy with it.

I lolled

but it already has. PvP players will no longer be subject to it, and it won't be long before RNG is removed from Ops. Bioware is realizing only delusional people think RNG is good for swtor.

Perhaps this is saying more about the type of content created than the players consuming it. If players quit because they blow through content in a few weeks and expect more, that's on the players. If players quit because they wait around for literally years for MMO content, that' on the studio.

Perhaps. Likely, even. However I ask myself why the studio is comfortable with this. It seems to me, a far more lucrative strategy would be to develop meaningful content, designed to encourage interest in gameplay and in-game community-building. Instead of creating artificial incentives, create gameplay that is its own incentive. Personally, I've bought a couple things on the CM when my CC coins pile up. I've bought coins two or three times over the years, and used them to purchase hypercrates to immediate place on the GTN for credits. That's it. I believe a CM-oriented operating plan is a weak idea in this genre of games. Yes, the lights are still on - but I'd aim a bit higher than that. I will never, ever believe an MMO with this IP "needed" a CM to survive. It simply needed good management.

If you want to be credible you ought to bone up on the difference between metrics and analytics. No one is disputing they have this information, and/or the logic behind making decisions based on it. The concern is the studio's ability to do so; specifically WRT the causality of player behavior. Uprisings are new. They appeared in conjunction with a new system, CXP. Uprisings give higher CXP per hour than Operations. Uprisings do not have a lockout. Uprisings can be queued for every day. Operations are between 2 and 5 years old. Operations give poor CXP. Operations have a weekly lockout. Operations can be queued for only on the day they are the weekly GF. But yes, let's see which one is getting more play, and make our decisions based on that? This is a simple example. I can give you numerous reasons why Operations play in this game has tailed off. Logical ones. Ones that players who used to play them - but now raid elsewhere - would give as their reason for quitting. Yet you seem stuck on this being some sort of player taste thing. I encourage you to bone up on reality. Bioware is looking at the metrics, sure. But I've seen nothing to convince me they have a clue how to accurately gauge the effect their strategic decisions have on the data. But it's cool if you want to act all important and stuff. That's how you do.

Yes, IMO they would. I'm all for things like TC and CM but they do not suffice as the type of 8-man content the playerbase (frankly) "needs". IMO even creating a new Operation would not suffice. There has to be the correct structure around it. Were it me, I would do the following: Two new Operations. Four to six bosses in each. Four modes. Story. Normal. Veteran. Master. Story is exactly what it's meant to be. NO Enrages. Negligible damage. No real mechanics. Que-able with 1 tank & 1 heal Total joke. Zerg. Bolster. Normal - about the level of SM Bulo/SS/UL at release. Few mechanics, but with legitimate consequences. Two tank/Two heal. Queable. No Bolster. Very generous enrage timer but perhaps one moderate DPS check. Tank swap mechanics exist, as do cleanse mechanics. Veteran - About the level of HM EC at release. Enrage timers in play for average DPS. Multiple complex, lethal mechanics. High damage output. Master - Typical NM. The shift from 3 to 2 tier was poorly conceived and a glance at the current state of SM Operations shows how badly they've been gutted. They're not serving a purpose anymore. A player interested in Ops play doesn't really have a mechanism to do so anymore. SM's teach nothing and the chasm between SM -> HM is wider than ever. I ran a SM TFB the other day with a DPS who sat below home during P2 Terror shooting Terror. Even when told how to do it properly. There needs to be a place for the casual to see the Ops and have zero expectation of being able to contribute meaningfully. And there needs to be a place for the casual who is interested in taking it more seriously that doesn't wipe the floor with him. This game needs 4-tiers in the worst way. If you don't see this, you do not PuG. Period. *** Almost as important as the tiering is the commitment to produce the content at a reasonable cadence. Operations can rebuild the guild community - it's broken right now, badly - but only if players know there is going to be more coming down the road. And when they do come, they need to be above existing levels so the old players that hit a wall in SM can overlevel the old HM. The players and teams that hit walls in HM can go overlevel the old NM. That's the only way to make old content worth doing. In short, I think the devs would destroy what's left of this game if they release 8-man content that is not Operations, but they have to do Operations properly or they'll accomplish nothing. There is exactly zero need for 20 minute 8-man content. Zero.

The best aspect of it is that is slightly better than a game that came out in the 90's?

Nope. I'd prefer content. Oh, and this? This might be my new signature quote, as it's about as ridiculous as my current one.

Curious what you're currently now able to do with your new gear you were unable to do before?

That's not an actual quote, is it? It can't be. Edit: I just went back and read the whole interview, and all I can say is I'm stunned, saddened and scared.

Very well put.

Let's see if Ben is really "listening".

Phew.

The old 4.0 loot table is fine if they remove EV and KP. If they need another place to stick a mainhand they could have just stuck it on Warlord Kephess. Someone smarter than the existing crew would have to look carefully at ToS/Ravagers of course, but I'm sure 20 minutes of serious thought could sort it. It depends how they've been tuned for 5.0. I have not seen them yet. 4.0 Revan was certainly not a NM/Master level encounter, but MB was IMO. Cora was a joke. There was no sense to how they were tuned. But - Hardmare was a **** idea from the get-go and as such it's probably still nonsensical.

The fundamental, underlying issue with the developers is they feel that the desire for gear is enough to keep players interested. It is not. I can say with no reservation I do not enjoy playing this game at all right now and have not since 5.0 dropped. I play this game because right now, my team hasn't decided on a different game to play. And admittedly, there is some (extremely overly optimistic) hope that this disaster will disappear. The game sucks right now. I'm playing far, far more than I normally do - yet I've gone from three teams to essentially one. I've gone from a bunch of characters I used to play and enjoy to one. I try to mix up what I do because after 5 or 6 Fractured runs I want to blow my brains out. So I pug stuff and cringe every time I get a HM LI pop with a 65 DPS because I know we won't be able to kill the bonus boss. I cringe when I pug SM TFB and a DPS is standing at home shooting the boss (yes, we try telling him) then wipe to irregularities. My buds used to make fun of me because I'd pug something and stick with it for 5 hours to try to help a group get their first HM Terror or Stryak kill. Now? Two wipes and I'm checking my GC window to stress over how much CXP I'm losing. I've tried to play GSF, PvP - just stuff I have no interest in. I feel like if I'm sitting on the fleet I have to make sure I'm spamming snowballs at my comp while I sit in queue. This is not what this game is supposed to be about. It's just not *********** fun. I don't care that people can do GSF for gear. I think it's sheer insanity the devs want me to. I don't care that people can PvP for gear. It blows my mind the devs expect me to. I just can't get my mind wrapped around how the devs expect people to not hate this. I certainly do understand them being cool with us not loving it. They're trying to take more of my money. I get that. I truly do. But to think this is something that people are going to still be here doing in 6 months - they need their heads examined. I'm GC rank 71. The idea of grinding this out to even just 200 or so is just mind boggling. Being able to gear up quickly in order to participate in the in-game activities I enjoy is one of the major reasons I loved playing this game. It has never been about obtaining gear. That was simply a nuisance. Ben, Eric - anyone listening - for players that enjoyed working on difficult content there is nothing you can bolt onto this system that makes it ok for most of us. You need to get that through your head.

Lol of course. The T1 gear will be farmed in Ops but anything past that? Or course not.

That's brilliant Eric. You guys are offsetting the outcry against RNG by adding another layer of RNG. Well played. You still have not put your finger squarely on the problem here. If you think this scenario - and let's be honest bro, what you implement will be nowhere near those percentages - in any way solves the problem you haven't been playing the game very much. At least in a manner where gear is important. Seriously, what is so wrong about putting gear back on the bosses and allowing GC/CXP to be a mechanism for players who do not care to PvP or run Ops? In what way does that make your game worse, rather than better? I mean, I'm having fun grinding Fractured (until you nerf it) but some of us - especially players that have been here for years - have exactly zero interest in grinding gear to play four year old content. Can we just play it without this bull ****?

It's more likely they are still in the "figuring out" stage. Why, now, they are still in that stage is scary. But it was very clear from that stream that they are still working out the nuts and bolts of this. Personally, I think there needs to be more than one guaranteed piece of gear per Operation. As they are describing it, the value of running Ops over PvP for 95% of the playerbase is non-existent and will be an absolute disaster in pugs.

Hey buddy! I wish I had a plushy of you. As far as your quote - seriously, I really hope, even you, aren't trying to say it's debatable. I love your posts but you chose the wrong piece of mine to challenge.

It's sort of sad but I think this is basically the crux of it. Some of the points people are making in this thread are ludicrous. If people wanted 216/220 gear in 4.0 it was trivial to get. If people wanted 216 gear and did not want to do Operations they could PvP. If they didn't want to PvP they could do Eternal Championship. The "new" proposed system is not a good "fix" to the problems many players have been expressing. I understand there are players - in this thread even - that are eager to point out how happy they are with the new system. Whether I agree with them or not is insignificant. What is important though is they do not seem to care that this system's perceived "good" attributes (to them) are doing exactly what the old system did "bad" for them to a swath of other players, only far, far worse. Personalty I do not want a return to 4.0 gearing. I'd like a return to 1.x-3.x gearing. Leave CXP as it is for the players that do not wish to PvP or run Ops. The entire concept of making gear slow to obtain is stupid. Period. It should be fairly simple to obtain for players willing to participate in difficult content and skilled enough to complete it. It should be fairly simple to obtain for players willing to engage in PvP and slightly more easy for players that score well. If you want to add a third pillar for it to be obtained via casual play easily (CXP) fine. I do not care. But gating gear behind a timesink just to gate it is insanity. Period. There's no content here we're trying to stretch the life of. Long time players know there's nothing new. We need no carrot. This is just a bother. Period. New players have plenty of stuff to do. But they are gated from enjoying the above-mentioned activities. This makes no sense in this game. And as such, the "new" system we have coming does (IMO) exactly nothing to solve the underlying issues of this system. This system does not need fixing. It needs removal. There is nothing to gate except fun. I do not play this game because I like getting gear. I play this game because I like to spend time playing it. I am not playing it currently. I am maximizing CXP gain and VMC acquisition. Period. And while I understand this is by choice, it seems inarguable to me that I am playing the system as intended. Some games could get away with this. I do not see how it makes sense in this game. You may argue the opposite as much as you wish but players are quitting over this. I know many. I do not think players were ever quitting because they had finished gearing. This game has devolved with the introduction of GC/CXP. Gameplay is not the focus. And when you have such limited, stale content, that is a major *********** problem. Ben & company are listening? I lol'ed. We're going to get this "fix" mid Jan. Then what? Because we're going to have the exact same situation we have now, except a lot more people mindlessly doing PvP. (Honestly, is more than 2% of T3 gear going to come from Operations? rofl) When's the next tweak - February? I can't get my mind wrapped around how, for a system announced back in October (?), these guys are still working out the details on how to fix problems they were told about within hours of announcing it. To repeat: These fixes they have not figured out yet, are for problems we very clearly spelled out for them three months ago. It was rolled out as is. They're listening? No. They're losing subs. That's not the same thing. As I stated at length in a post a week or two ago, the point of GC/CXP - despite what a few in this thread are gleefully proclaiming - is not to be a more inclusive system. It is not intended to encourage you to "play how you want". That it is (inexplicably) touted as such by a few players who truly believe they are somehow benefited is only a bonus to them. And a bonus they likely care little about. The entire point of GC/CXP is a monetization platform. And it has failed because even as such, the studio screwed it up. They got scared that 5 or 6 people had hit the cap and worried their gravy train would end too quickly. But make no mistake, they want you to not love this system. They want you to spend CC to get there faster. They'll keep tuning and tuning to make it just bearable enough to stem the exodus but grindy enough that CXP boosts (and probably upcoming legacy perks etc) are purchased. The new system certainly will make boosting during PvP more viable than today. But listening? rofl.

The fact that this even needs to be explained is scary.

After an Uprising (usually Fractured), completing and then porting back to fleet, the mission doesn't disappear and as such leaving the group causes a lockout.