"Hating so much" over 30 min of gaming? Traffic jams must be debilitating. It's not so bad as a few other times I can think of, including the a server rollback to the previous evening, "early access" to new content that didn't happen until a day later, taking all the servers offline for hours during peak time etc. The ToS pretty much gives them a free pass for anything to do with the game, good or bad.

What many things are these that you want for Swtor but don't get? And when did this become about being "right" or "wrong"?

I'm not sure who the "ALL THEY" is you're referencing, but I think you've gotten confused. People tend to get upset because the game/franchise that they LOVE is getting treated terribly by Bioware's dev team with this poor excuse for an expac. Lighting up the forum boards is about the only way to express this displeasure since there's no other way to let the company know the why's and wherefore's. There's little to no communication lines between the devs and the community and any serious questions in cantina talks or livestreams get dodged. A number of people like myself gave Bioware the benefit of the doubt with the KotFE, but now that it's over, so is the faith in Bioware. Don't worry. When KotET starts in (TBD), you can rest assured THEY WILL ALL NOT STILL BE HERE. But if those filthy posts criticizing game elements are bothering you, I have bad news. KotET is going to be much like KotFE. So I don't think you're going to be free of those pesky upset forum people.

There are a number of reasons why we wouldn't listen to Koth or Lana's advice. 1. None of the PCs got to be where they're at because they always listened to whatever they were told. 2. We don't know Koth hardly at all, and Lana has shown to be manipulative of her own allies on more than one occasion. Blind trust would be foolish. 3. No one leads by just sitting around waiting for advisers to tell them what to do. 4. It's been five years and supposedly everyone else lost to Zakuul. The Outlander is supposed to be the exception. Our character has never been NOT powerful. They are just irrelevant at times. Unfortunately in KotFE, that has been a lot, and it should not have been.

My list of Improvements is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=886249&highlight=ways+improve

Wow....please tell me this is sarcasm.

A good villain is just as important as the hero to a good story. I don't have a problem with that, but there are different ways of developing villains. It depends on the plot of your story and the protagonist's own thought development. There might be no reason to show the villain doing anything since you're supposed to journey from the perspective of your protagonist. Kotor 1 for example doesn't involve much Malak since to do so would've given away the game's big reveal. That big reveal, though, did add a lot to understanding Malak's antagonism toward you. Also, you get to know your villains based on their actions and the interactions with NPCs who tell you things about them. For example, We learn a lot more about Arcann and Vaylin from talking to Senya in the Lady of Sorrows chapter than we do from any of Arcann/Vaylin's own cutscenes. It's been awhile, but I don't recall some of those other BW game villains you mentioned getting hardly any screen time of their own, certainly not near as much as they've given Arcann/Vaylin in KotFE. That's not saying it was a good thing. I'm just saying as far as examples go, some of them wouldn't fit well. The question I would ask is this: At the end of 16 chapters, what exactly have we gotten to know about Arcann and Vaylin through their cutscenes that we didn't know at the end of chapter 2? Valkorion dodged our questions about them (along with pretty much everything else). There was a lot of "Rawr, ima get you Outlander", and some random violence. That's a not character depth. We STILL have no idea why both of them have decided to be evil or turn against the Outlander/Galaxy. They're Saturday morning cartoon villains right now. Like many other things in KotFE, if it had been done right, the reception would have been much different. Instead, we're left with a bunch of pointless padding and promises of next year.

Lol. Someone really wants a shiney "atta boy" dev post.

Actually, in terms of difficulty, yes they are harder since there's more mechanics to be followed. How many different boss fights in KotFE could you actually lose if you didn't follow the mechanics? One..two? I don't remember anything but the Scorpion and Arcann "end" fights having any mechanics beyond roflstomps with stay out of aoe's. There's a myriad of enemies, bosses, and mechanics for almost every FP. What's in KotFE? Dying because your own damage got reflected back? Burn phases? Interrupt of certain abilities? Kill order? Getting knocked off an edge by an attack? All these things are in FP boss fights, even story modes. Why can't they get put in story boss fights?

Even one of the FPs you mention has more mechanics and different baddies in it than the entirety of KotFE put together. May not be perfect, but still better than the hallway grunt slaying fest that is KotFE.

That will all depend on what they expect from a Star Wars story. The biggest problem right now with the Star Wars franchise as a whole is that the folks responsible for creating content are so fixated with having all the familiar tropes from past stories that they've forgotten they NEED A GOOD STORY TO START WITH. Developers and filmmakers think that if they have all the "elements" that fans are expecting, that it will be a success. That's like mixing ingredients without having the recipe/instructions and expecting it to turn out right. The most recent movie, The Force Awakens, was a prime example. People generally gave it a free pass on the criticism either because they were so happy to have something Star Wars after so many years, or because they felt that the politically correct elements were so pleasing to them. Only weeks after it's release did people start popping up and saying negative things about it. KotFE feels much the same way in that as long as all the familiar things were there (evil empire, family drama, force user fights, superweapons, etc) that it would be an epic story. Unfortunately, it's even more disjointed than TFA. It's almost as if someone sat down and said: "We want the PC to end up in x, y, and z situations. Writers, make it happen." Then the writers had to finagle and contrive their way through the plot, destroy character quality, and leave gaping plot holes to make them happen. Add into this mess the financial pressure of corporate stink eye and you end up with stories that have pointlessly repetitive confrontations and battles (i.e. the cgi Clone Wars series) between marquee characters just so they could perpetuate the series/money. This is the pattern KotFE has fallen into as well. I am curious to see how some of the other SW projects do, and I sincerely do hope the creators realize that the Brand will not save them from shoddy product quality or the backlash from it. Marvel and DC can vouch for that.

To be fair, I would concur that SoR and some of the class stories had similar problems, but from what I can recall, I don't think most of the vanilla ones would fall in that category, or at least be near as bad as some of the ones in KotFE (i.e. Valkorion).

So you make a ragey post about people assuming numbers and percentages, but then choose to make the same type of assumptions to support your arguments?.....Ok.

Knights of the Fallen Empire: The Epilogue The occupants of Odessan are seen in the Cantina celebrating with dancing and drink when Commander Outlander emerges from the lifts. Outlander: "What are you guys doing?!" Various: "Celebrating" Outlander: "Why?" Various look at each other puzzled for a moment before responding: "We won" Outlander: "Won what?" Various: "..uh....We destroyed Arcann's flagship! Yeah!" [raucous cheers go up] Outlander: "But Arcann's still out there. We have to get back to work!" Various: "That's not our fault. You're the one who let him live" Outlander: "I couldn't help it. I tried to kill him, but he activated his cutscene powers and I couldn't do anything!" Various glare at Outlander accusingly: "You're the Commander. You figure it out" Outlander begins fuming until com beeps and Lana's voice is heard: "Commander, priority message coming in. Come to the Command Room" Outlander arrives in the Command Room to see Senya on the holo with Arcann seated in the background. Outlander: "So, care to explain yourself?" Senya: "I called to get an explanation from you" [glares coldly at Outlander] Outlander: "Why? I did say I was going to kill him, on more than one occasion. In fact, you said so yourself in the Scions' enclave. Why are you so surprised? What were you even doing on the bridge when you were supposed to be dealing with Vaylin?!" Senya: "Don't judge me. I knew your cutscene powers were too weak and I was just trying to save my son" [looks back affectionately at Arcann, who is seething in his chair] Arcann: "Celebrate for now, Outlander, but I will kill you and all your friends. Nothing will stop me, and once I'm done with you, Father will never be able to come back. Bwuahahahahaha!" Senya: "See? He can be redeemed" Outlander is about to respond when Arcann tries to make a threatening gesture with his cybernetic arm. Arcann: "AAAAHHHH! MY ARM! MOM, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY ARM?! IT'S GONE!" Senya: "Relax, it got blown off back on your flagship. We'll get you a new one" [tries to calm him down] Arcann: [recoils in fear and glances wildly up and around the ceiling] BUT WHAT IF IT FALLS ON ME-IN PIECES?! Senya: "See what you've done!" Outlander: "I didn't do that. The falling debris did" Senya: "Don't you get it? Falling Debris IS your cutscene power. It's your fault he has a phobia of it now!" Outlander: "Don't you think if I could control falling debris, I would have--" Senya: "ENOUGH! Is this what you'll do to Vaylin too?!" Theron off to the side: "Speaking of Vaylin, got another priority call" [another holo appears of Vaylin lounging on the throne with Scorpio standing next to her] Vaylin: "Well, if it isn't the worst alliance commander in history. Tee hee. I am sooo enjoying this throne. I think it suits me. Don't you think?" Outlander: "Don't worry Vaylin, your day is coming soon" Senya: "That's IT! Activate cutscene powers!" [reaches out from the holo and force pushes the Outlander across the room] Vaylin: "Ooo, we're doing cutscene powers. I have the BEST ones" [reaches out through the holo and force pushes the Outlander as well, who is now being thrown around the room like a rejected toy] Outlander: "Someone...OOOF....do.....OOOOF......something.....OOOOF" Lana: "Call on Valkorion's power. That will stop them" Outlander: "You...OOOF....said.....OOOF....never.....OOOF....to have.....OOOF.....anything....OOOF....to do.....OOOF....with him....OOOF." Lana: "Fine, suit yourself then" [shrugs and returns to console] "I have my own difficult decision to make" Theron: "What difficult decision?" Lana: "If I have to wear the same outfit all next year, I have to make sure it's one that I like, and suits my purposes" [stares at the Cartel Market Screen intently] "But they won't let me use any of these!" Theron: "Oh no! I forgot all about that, and I haven't looked at anything yet!" [turns back to his console and begins typing furiously] Outlander: "But guys...OOOF!" [is thrown into another screen] Scorpio: "Your allies are useless. I warned you of their weakness, and now your alliance will be crushed." Beywan Aygo over the comm: "The entire eternal fleet just showed up in orbit! Scramble all ships!" Theron after closing down the outfit screen: "Uh, bad news, they just obliterated our ships before they could get out of the atmosphere." Vaylin: "Ha ha ha!" Scorpio: "Ha ha ha!" Senya: "Ha ha ha!" Arcann: "Ha ha ha, WAIT!" [crouches like Gollum in his chair before glancing up at the ceiling in terror] Outlander: "Guys....OOOF" Lana: "Oh pshh! Stop fretting. Koth just showed up with the Gravestone and is fighting them all for us." Theron: "I thought we did everything we could to kill and piss him off..." [scratches head in confusion] Lana: "His message says he still has a bunch of spies in the alliance that he doesn't want killed just in case he wants to sneak in later and cause more trouble" Outlander: "Just peachy.....OOOF" Beywan Aygo over the comm: "Looks like the Eternal Fleet's pulling out boys. Another victory for the Alliance! Let's get back to celebrating!" Theron: "Why'd they pull out like that? Koth didn't even take out that many of them" Scorpio over the holo: "Don't worry. I won't let anything happen to my babies" [cuddles a Gemini doll close to her metal bosom] Vaylin: "Hey! I wanted them demolished! Do what I tell you, you stupid droid or join the pile of bodies at the bottom of the throne room!" [shocks Scorpio with lightning and holo feed of them vanishes] Lana: "Oh, and Koth left again with the Gravestone..." Outlander: "You think....OOOF.....you could.....OOOF....cut the holo.....OOOF" Lana: "Yes, but that would go against the rule of cutscene powers. I'm afraid you'll have to find a way out yourself" Dr. Ogurrobb lurches up, taking in the scene for a moment. Dr. Ogurrobb: "Oh my..." After the Outlander is flung by Senya against another console, Ogurrobb acts with surprising speed for a Hutt and quickly lurches over to sit atop the Outlander, pinning him to the floor underneath the fat folds of the Hutt, but preventing him being thrown around anymore. Ogurrobb: "Hah! Rescued you!" Outlander muffled by the immense blob atop him: "Gee thanks" Ogurrobb defiantly to Senya: "Ha! My mass overpowers your cutscene powers!" Senya: "I never liked you...or how fat you were" Ogurrobb: "Never underestimate the fat ones. They can hide a lot" [whips out a disk from...somewhere and inserts it into the holo console] Senya with some alarm in her voice: "Wh-what is that?" Ogurrobb: "Haw Haw Haw! It's a virus uploaded to your shuttle's navcontrols." Senya looks around startled while alarms begins sounding in the shuttle, causing Arcann to huddle fearfully again. Ogurrobb: "Science, *****!" [waves grubby hands triumphantly] Senya's shuttle begins bucking and reeling, tossing them around on the holo for a moment before the feed cuts off entirely and the room is left in silence. Ogurrobb: "See, Outlander? I told you one day the Hutts would save the galaxy" Outlander muffled under Ogurrobb: "Sure, you think you can get off me now?" Ogurrobb: "Why can you not wield Valkorion's power like before?" Outlander still muffled under folds of Ogurrobb's fat: "I dunno. JUST GET OFF ME!" Meanwhile, in a hidden grotto in the basement of Bioware Austin: Valkorion lazily stretches on a floating lounge, surrounded by Kira, Jaessa, Asharra, Nadia, Risha, and Akaavi in slave girl outfits fanning him with palm branches and feeding him grapes while he sips a martini. Kira: "I resisted you before. I will break your hold again!" Valkorion: "My power level is over ten thousand now. You can do nothing" [idly eats a grape lovingly offered by Nadia] Jaessa: "My Wrath will come for you. He will carve a trail of blood and destruction until all that you know and love will be in pieces at your feet!" Valkorion chuckles: "I already wiped his memory of you, and besides, if the company discovers you are too highly sought after, I'll just keep you in here for another full year" They all moan in disgust. Risha: "I really can't wait to be done with this nonsense. I should be ruling Dubrillion, not stuck in here." Valkorion: "Not all have alternate fates that are so fortunate. Do they Quinn?" Over in a dimly lit corner, Malavai Quinn kneels in a monk's robe, stripped to the waist as he whips himself in self loathing. Quinn: "My Lord, you said if I punished myself enough, that the players would have mercy on me when I returned!" WHIP! Valkorion smiles wickedly: "Of course they will, but you have a long way to go..." Jaessa whispers in Valkorion's ear: "The players will surely kill him the first chance they get" Valkorion whispers back: "Of course they will, but it amuses me to watch him try" A knock on the door interrupts them. Valkorion: "What is it, Eric son of Musco?" Eric son of Musco carefully enters. Eric son of Musco: "Well...um...my Lord...it's just...." Valkorion: "Spit it out! Don't waste my time!" Eric son of Musco: "It's just...the writers wanted to worship the secret Lana Beniko shrine. You said they'd be allowed to once a week if they pleased you" Valkorion frowns in annoyance and takes another sip of a martini: "Oh that....I did promise them that, didn't I? I suppose they can, though I must confess I had Asharra carve all the candles around the shrine into the shape of Theron Shan" Asharra smiles at Eric son of Musco and he sees the pieces of candle wax in her teeth. Eric son of Musco: "But...why?" Valkorion: "Because she's stupid and will do just about anything anyone says" Eric son of Musco: "I mean, why carve them into figures of Theron Shan?" Valkorion: "Because I knew it would rankle them to think the Theron worshipers got to their shrine. Make sure to send me instagram posts of their faces when they first see their beloved shrine. It should prove humorous." Eric son of Musco: "Did you see the numbers I sent you?" Valkorion: "I don't care about numbers. I make the numbers what I wish. It is my destiny. Yours is to do as I command until I tire of you" Eric son of Musco: "But the players--" Valkorion: "DON'T try my patience, Eric son of Musco! Or I will send you to the EA priest for confession, and you know he charges for every sin he thinks you've made!" Eric son of Musco: "Please, my Lord, I cannot afford that" Valkorion: "Then DON'T forget that I can do anything at anytime for any reason. Now begone while I decide which shows I will bestow Emmys on." The End.

Keep drinking the Bioware koolaid. You're willing to blame players for following their model, but fail to see why Bioware would have any blame in the matter. Geez, logic much? So folks defending Bioware basically have to resort to one of three arguments here: 1. Just wait, next year..... 2. Technically, one or two choices mattered, therefore it excuses everything else. 3. Your sub money was really for all the other game stuff (the recycled stuff Bioware doesn't care about and isn't developing), but you were stupid to only play KotFE with it. If you can't see the problem with this, then have fun with the **** show next season, but don't expect anyone to get any happier or anything to improve. Done here.

You can call it a ridiculous and erroneous argument all you want, but getting people to pay that amount for the xpac was PRECISELY the reason Bioware went to that model. Arcann may not be on the throne, but come on. Nowhere does it state by Bioware or narratively that "removing Arcann from the throne" was the sole purpose of KotFE. If anything, dealing with Valkorion or "saving the galaxy" was the purpose of KotFE, which of course didn't happen either. All that happened were some pieces got moved around and status quo remains. Zakuul still in charge of everything, still with crazy Valkorion child x in charge, among other things.

1. Bioware didn't release it at once like any other xpac, and the story stuff became the new endgame. So if you were waiting with baited breath like any other xpac, you had to pay $15x8-10months of sub. 2. By trying to point out subsequently how cheap it is in the following paragraph, you've just highlighted what they did. 3. It wasn't that chapter 16 didn't resolve EVERYTHING. It's that chapter 16 resolved NOTHING AT ALL. 4. KotFE, the "best storytelling Bioware has done with this game since launch" lol, that's not saying much even if I were to agree with the statement.

You're assuming people subbed for the exact same reasons you did.

You're claiming they made changes to the experience of 10-16 or that you're counting on things being different next season?

Not sure why you guys are restarting a debate about chapter 12 (hands down the pinnacle of nonsense in this so called xpac) when there are a ton of threads about it already. To me, seems pretty obvious they discarded all the past lore so they could make a one size fits all story. P.s. one of the "best" parts of that chapter: Satele: "Arcann and his Knights learned to use the force in a different way from Jedi and Sith. That's why we couldn't truly defeat them." Outlander: "I've defeated many" Satele: "Don't confuse them with Arcann. And his sister Vaylinn is another problem entirely." *** is with the bait and switch, Satele. Regardless if we used Valkorion's power, we've already beaten Arcann once (twice if you count the bit in the Scion's enclave) and a whole horde of Knights. smh

And apparently you can't comprehend the huge bait and switch Bioware just fed you. After 9 chapters: ppl complain choices don't matter, Bioware and their defenders: "Don't worry, later in the season stuff will change" After all 16 chapters: ppl complain choices still haven't mattered at all, Bioware and their defenders: " But guys, next season you'll see bla bla bla". What will your excuse be for them after next season?

Again with this "free" nonsense? It's marketing ********. KotFE is the end game now, which requires a sub. If you're going to blame him for following Bioware's marketed model, then you're basically validating what he said about it not being worth it. And before you start in with the "but sub pays for other stuffs", ask yourself how much of that sub money is used on "that other stuff", and you'll have your answer.

Please, tell us how you really feel.

Yes...because they've done a smashing job of upkeeping the servers. Seriously, how many servers are dead or dying, but they won't let the people on them transfer without paying? Then you have all the bugs still in the game. Plenty of threads about those. Still think that's what the sub money is going towards? The last xpac charged for beyond sub money was SoR and 3.0, and people really need to stop kidding themselves that KotFE was "free". Bioware went to this model precisely to keep subs running rather than see a large spike and then nothing. It had nothing to do with "other content", you know, that stuff they don't care about anymore.

Did you never hear the phrase: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"