You'd be surprised. When WoW disabled this one-click cleanse add-on back during the vanilla WoW days, the amount of fail that came out of raiding in the weeks following was legendary. SO MANY PEOPLE had come to rely on this add-on that when it was removed you literally had a bunch of blind kitten meowing at the world in helpless rage. I forget the name of it (maybe it was Decursive?)....but basically it let you push a button, then it scanned your party/raid for any debuffs you could remove (for instance, druids could remove poison, so it scanned for that if you were a druid) and then removed one debuff per press of the button. People eventually adapted, but a lot of guilds ended up kicking some folks out because they just couldn't perform without that one add-on. Of course, some of that was design issues with WoW's raiding back in the day. But the lesson still stands I think.

Def gonna roll both Jug and Mara. Just so happens some other gaming friends of mine decided to roll this game, and didn't tell me, so I'll have a Jug on one server and a Mara on another. Should be good times. Can't wait to get my damn e-mail lol.

I saw two Immortal-based builds work for high-level pvp during the beta. The first is Vengeance-focused with a bit in Immortal to beef up tankiness, while the second swaps that and trades some damage from Vengy to get the deeper Immortal stuff, giving you more control abilities and even more survivability. So it really comes down to being a tanky dps in Soresu form, or a tank-CC'er in Soresu form. Here are the two builds as I remember seeing them: Tanky DPS (Veng-heavy): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhczZhGbMrhdzMM.1 Tanky CC (Immortal heavy): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frhfzr0kzMZhGb0r.1 The first one basically focuses on sitting in Soresu and using the supporting stuff from Vengy to put out some good burst damage with an Impale/Scream/Smash combo. You're still pretty tanky, thanks to a 26% native defense in Soresu, and of course you'll have guard on a target to help make them tankier as well. The pvp-focused Vengy talents buff up your tankiness as well, since you can Intercede an ally both to get out of a bad situation and reduce incoming damage on both of you by 20%. Unstoppable, Pooled Hatred, and Unyielding are just icing on the cake. The second one focuses more on resilience and control. You've got 30s off of your CC-break skill, your Smashes reduce accuracy for a decent period of time, and you get the 1-2-3 punch of a Backhand stun + unchanneled Choke + Force Leap/Crash for a total of 9 straight seconds of stun on a single target if you blow everything at once. Some of the points in this build are malleable; you can opt for Ravager in the Rage tree if you want the lower Choke CD, or pick up Ruin in Vengeance for the free Smash. Four points are free to be tossed around, so experiment and find out what works for you. Also, as a side note, I don't understand why people can say there's no choice in the talent trees yet. Maybe for other classes that's true, but for Jug I can come up with some amazing hybrid builds just as easily as I can come up with 31-pt based builds, and they all look like they have their strengths.