What? Its an MMO dude, level alts, raid Ops, help your guildies gear up running hard modes, help other people gear up running hard modes, PvP, world bosses...the list goes on. If they are so easy to figure out, then why is it a problem ? Neither do I. That is why the 8/16 man raid is great. It is much easier to get a group together and do an OP now. I really don't see what you are arguing here... I have used the /who many times to form groups. Why is it that you, or other Pro-LFG tool people, are unable to. I have /who jugg /who assassin and /who powertech in order to find a tank. I have /who sniper and /who operative to find a dps when i needed to. If I and thousand of others are able to, why can't you ?

In Vanilla it took 40 people . . in Swtor it takes 4/8/16. It is NOT hardcore. no part of it is hardcore. I never even said the word hardcore in my post, you are just putting words in my mouth. Go back and read it again, if you don't' believe me. I made it clear, many times in my post, that is what my personal belief and opinion. If you cannot respect my opinion, how am I supposed to respect yours ?

Thank you for reading

That is just a blanket generalization. I have joined many guilds in many games and met dozens of different people. Assuming they are all the same is just...is just...assuming

Man that really isn't it. I want to address something To me, at least "server rep " doesn't mean " OMG Everyone Knows my name and I'm amazing leet I have world first I cleared all the content " Server rep to me means like this: So you are pugging a dungeon; I am a healer. I find a tank in /1 and some dps. The run is going great ! So I notice that one of the DPSers is really great, his DPS is awesome, he has got a great spec, or great gear, or W/e the case may be I don't know, I just know his damage is awesome. I'm going to add that DPS to my friends list so next time I make a group and I need his class, I will whisper him first if he is online. Same can be said about a great tank, who I noticed had awesome aggro and the mobs never came at me, or if I'm on a DPS, a great healer who I really enjoyed grouping with. That, to me , is server rep. Someone who I like to play with because I personally thought they were a good player. That is only my opinion, not fact. If there is a player in my group I don't feel that way about, I don't go in /1 and yell " xyz is a terribad " No. THAT is elitist. You people accusing others of elitism need to know that elitist could care less about LFG - they have already cleared all the content, and have guilds where they can get players to do runs with. This LFG/LFD argument isn't about elitism, it is (to me) about the general fact of "dumbing down the game ". Has anyone seen what Blizz plans to do with Panda land ? They plan to take out all the talents so there is no thought required. That is one of the main reasons I decided to try this game ~ they still have actual talent trees ! This is an example of dumbing down the game. Now, if you want to argue me, so far I haven't really said anything specific but here is your chance. The common arguments seems to be "Elitists don't want LFG tool because then others can get loots ", or, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". These are the two most common things I have seen. First off, the hard modes are...not that hard. The operations (8/16 man) are puggable, and not that hard either. The loot attained in hard modes is available just as easily for anyone to get, and its the Rakata gear ( dropped in hard mode Ops) that is the true epeen gear. The fact is, a group couldn't kill anything in HM ops because it requires a lot of coordination and probably vent/mumble etc. So, saying that "elitist don't want people to get gear" is false, because it would be unattainable anyway by ANY kind of LFG tool or system (due only to the nature of HM OPS requiring more communication over vent etc. which casuals seem to avoid or not want any part of in the first place). Second, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". I can't speak for everyone, but if you are paying the same $ as me, you deserve a chance to see all the content the game has to offer. The disconnect comes where people believe that it should be handed to them, vs people who think it should be something that requires work to attain. Let me give an example. Back in Vanilla WoW , lvl 60 content (ZG/AQ20/40/MC/BWL/NAXX) was ONLY accessible if you had a guild with a bunch of people in it. So many, like myself who played with no friends, had to make them, join a guild, build relationships, and finally work hard to gear up in order to see the content. Truth be told, all I saw @ lvl 60 was ZG/Aq20/MC/ and half of BWL. That is less than half. But even more sad, is that only an estimated (I think at the time) 3% of the wow players actually got to see the content. I was one of those people who thought I should be able to see all the content ! I payed my 15 dollars a month too! So...I joined a guild...I geared my character...I learned how to play well...and eventually saw some of it. Back then, it required work. So that is it: My problem with LFG is that the content is easily available to ANYONE who is willing to put in just a tiny bit of effort to join a guild (there is guilds spamming all day long), gear your toon, make some friends, start your own guild, recruit friends to the game, roll a tank or healer. There is so many ways available to see content. Whether that content is Eternity Vault normal (easily do-able in lvl 50 blues/oranges), or Hard Mode False Emperor (requiring a bit more coordination than the Ops even), the content is there and accesible within less than an hour for anyone willing to put in a tiny bit of effort. LFG removes that requirement for a tiny bit of effort. I can't imagine what kind of troll response you can even say to this, because it is 100 % true. I have already said, low pop servers should be merged, and the faction imbalance in this game is absolutely sickening, but barring those two obstacles, I feel the a LFG tool is merely a shortcut for what (I personally believe) should take just a minuscule amount of effort. I am sorry for the wall of text, I am just sick of people assuming that "one group doesn't want it because of this blanket generalization" because it simply is not true. Elitists don't care - they stopped caring when the original LFG tool was available years ago.

Actually really great post. A lot of the problem stems from small group sizes

My last forum post was removed for calling people bad. Yet other people are free to call others "arrogant" and "elitist" among others. Love this game

Anyone who wants LFG tool is simply narcissistic and feel entitled. Go out and work for your group, make connections with people, make a name for yourself. LFG tool is a free ride edit: I understand that on some low pop realms this is NOT the case. I think there should be server mergers to solve that problem and a lot of the LFG issues would also be solved.

This thread is full of win. However, I leave too. I don't care about medals, valor (meaningless ranking system anyone?), anything else except winning. If the team is farming kills instead of objectives ? -> leave If door gets capped within 1 min of voidstar because people have tunnel vision ? -> leave If I see three people chase a dude into the pit at huttball ? -> leave If the strat is 4 left / 4 right in civil war and some noobs ignore the strat and go mid ? ->leave All I care about is winning, so I will leave any WZ I don't think I will win If it is from the start, however, and an even match (for instance, 0-0 huttball game) I will stay to the end and give it my best win or lose.

No we are talking about people like you. An mister malign is directly feeding my point with every response he makes. Carry on.

' Now you're just trolling. Good luck getting your point across when you can't stay on topic, or reply to direct arguments. IF you have a reply that doesn't assume anything, I'd be happy to hear it. Oh and when you say "judging if a player is bad or not..." etc. When you have a class capable of doing X amount of damage, and said player is doing 1/2 or less of X damage. They are bad. You have fun getting in groups with bads, and enjoy it, But I won't be :-)

Aww you have to respond point by point now to, ahem, get your point across ? Yes, people playing badly in the groups that I was in using the LFG tool made the game less enjoyable for me, and dozens of other people I know. It has not a single thing to do with "leetness." You are just assuming, because you have no other argument or option. "Don't agree with him, call him elite" Have you ever played a team sport - ever ? Probably not, save maybe baseball. And there is that one guy on the team who is so unbelievably bad, but his parents paid too so he gets to play and bring down the whole team. It isn't just bad for the team, it is bad for him too, because he gets destroyed when there is real competition. He gets destroyed when he tries to show people his skills. He gets destroyed when it really matters. If the rest of this team is good enough, they can overcome the fact that he is bad and still win. Thus, LFG tool. People carrying bads. Pre- LFG tool, if someone was bad, they didn't get invited back. Then, the person went online and did some research to learn how to play his class, practiced on some lower level mobs, improved, and came back a much better player ! With LFG......there is no reason to improve your skills because you just play casually and can get in groups just fine being bad. I didn't come here to debate with a person about their points, you could have just let it be. I said I wasn't against LFG, just that the real problem with is wasn't that is destroys server communities - most people, like myself, will continue to do guild groups and parties with people I have played with and were quality. The real problem is that it gives ZERO incentive for a bad player to improve his/her skills. Whether you want to argue that point or not is irrelevant because WoW (and other MMOs) have already proven this much to be true.

I never said anything about socializing. I said performance. If you want to rebuke someone and argue, try to at least read what they say and respond to it, fail. The problem that LFG tool introduced was apathy toward performance. What I mean is (since this guy apparently has never used a LFG tool and doesn't know) that people using LFG tool don't care as much about their performance in a group, be it dpsing, tanking, healing (the latter of which are essential to care for the most part) and so make the rest of the group suffer. How many times using LFG have I been paired with a Ret Pally in full epics pulling 13k dps, or a rogue doing 10, or even a mage below 15 ? Many many times. LFG lets Bads be bads, and that is bad for the entire game. Again, I'm not totally against it, because lets face it, without bads (read:casuals) the game probably wouldn't stay alive very long. WoW proved that casuals were important when they made hard mode dungeons in TBC (if you don't know what I'm talking about, don't bother responding) and started handing out welfare epics. Now it is the norm.

I like this guy.

Exactly, which I why I didn't say I was against it. I still think that it promotes apathy and royally screws the people in the group that DO care and are trying hard, but I am not against it either.

The REAL problem with LFG tool(for flashpoints/ops) Is performance and respect Some people just don't care - at all - how well they are performing their role, or have any respect for the other players, simply because they don't have to go back to the same server with them. I can safely say that without an ENORMOUS reward, I would not use a LFG tool on my healer to heal people that are probably very bad - bad enough that they couldn't just make or find a group on their own server.

You cannot be knocked back with a full resolve bar.

It is funny, the topic title that is. mostly because, I rolled a PvP server...guess how much "PvP there is outside of WZs... hmm. None. They separated the questing in all the zones Daily Quests are separated in the zones There is no way to get near the other player city (fleet) and antagonize/start something I guess I'm just disappointed that my PvP server means nothing

No see, you guys have it wrong. I quit a warzone when no one else cares and is not trying. You aren't going to get completely rolled if even half your team is focusing on the objectives and cares. So when I a game and most of my team is off farming medals. I leave. I don't care about medals, gear, coms, valor. Nothing. Just playing with people and winning. I wont' leave a 0-0 Huttball Match for instance, because that is an intense battle with competition. If people were not trying it would not stay 0-0 for long. I will, however, leave if: Someone caps a door in voidstar within 30 seconds of the match because that means you have a team full of bads that can't watch the doors. If I play huttball and no one plays defense and stops the ball carrier or I am the only one. Or in Civil war, if some ******* keep throwing themselves against 5 people camping a turret instead of listening to the leader and playing correctly. I , for one, am really happen there is no debuff. I have to deal with less ******* the way the current system is set up.

Disagree. Not everyone Has friends/family to play with. Thats why I like to solo que. I want to be paired with other people solo queing as well. not sure with this is such a misunderstood thing. If people want to make premades, great. Go fight against other premades so it is fair.

if you rolled a toon on my server, Hedarr Soongh, you would not be a happy camper. It is literally premades roflstomping pugs and fresh 50s ALL DAY LONG. Look, its an MMO I get that. So why can't premades go against other premades, and solo que people be put with solo que people ? Because BW is perfectly fine with full Champ/BM premades on vent farming noobs.

most of the games I joined, 5/8 people are fighting away from objectives are following people into the pit. That is why I quit WZs

Dude, I could give two poops about coms, cash, or valor. Coms are a joke - pvp gear comes from dailies and weeklys. Cash ? Im rich already ? Valor ? A meaningless ranking system to show who plays more All I care about is winning. If My team is not performing well, I am out I will sit in a new Que for 10 minutes, and quit again if the team sucks. Waiting 10 minutes for me is much better than suffering through a pathetic loss where I am the only person on my team trying to win

Gear + Pre-mades = Wins, otherwise ****

There are PvPers left: They get pre-mades and roll noobs all day long. That is pvp in SWTOR edit: hence why I have lost all inkling of desire to "PvP" at 50. Chain Stun/CC is imba, many classes are imba (my class, Sorc, included), Pre-mades rolling pugs/fresh 50s is imba. Everything about it is bad.