Yea, i heard that, but honestly, if you played gw1, i can see how it could play on a console. Your skills are limited, and that has its pros and cons. One of the pros being that it gives itself a way to play on consoles. I don't believe this will be for the guys that spend 24/7 trying to get a gear/perks advantage from game time, but it does lean towards a more competitive/even playing field such as we have in fps games.

At this point in gaming, i think the majority has given up on a "savior". Myself, i would settle for a playable daoc type pvp experience that has been lacking for several years. Devoid of buff-bots, radar hacks, and speed hacks, i suspect a lot of people would enjoy this and it is something i continue to look for. Illum just doesn't do it for me. Even if we got more than 5-10 fps in large battles, Bioware is just not scratching that itch with Illum the way it is now. Will GW2 be the answer for those of us looking for that kind of thing? I can only hope so. Will it have problems? If it doesn't it will be the first company that managed it. Do i think it will be the game for the raiding crew? Probably not. Will it give guilds something to do besides raids...hopefully. The current pvp content doesn't really hold a guild together due to various bugs, craptastic Illum, and near non-existent world pvp. The bag system doesn't help much. The /stuck thin and kill trading ticks me off in particular. Enough to go back to Rift until GW2 comes out...not yet, but i'm getting there. The /stuck thing really gets to me. I consider it an exploit and it really takes the little fun there is at times out of pvp.

What about the title for not wanting to be the 7th guy against 12? How about a title for "huttball can go to hell" ?

The people defending this engine are just sad. Are you the same guys that told us the shadowbane engine would run better after they got out of beta and quit choking it down? LOL. This engine is a POS plain and simple when compared to other games in the genre, especially when it comes to pvp and more than a 8 on 8 engagement. Problems are documented and out there by reputable people that have far more knowledge about computing/programming/coding than i or probably the bioware team. Google for yourself to find out about the engine. Bottom line is that it is horrible performance when compared to games such as rift and wow, which it is trying to compete with. Those of you showing people the door for complaining...all i can say is have fun. I'm sure the performance will improve when it's 2 on 2 in Illum.

They need to teach their system how to ensure we have 8 on each side before they can even think of a deserter debuff. 12 v 7 games are all too common to ask people to sit tight at the moment.

i Also have zero interest in huttball. I seem to be about 50/50 in it, but still don't care much for it. I also despised riding dragons/vehicles in combat in other games. I'm not much for the gimmicks. If i wanted to pass a ball i'd play Madden or something else on the PS3 that does it much better. I understand some people like it, and they should get to que for it as much as they want. I would ask that i be allowed to not que for it as all. Huttball is warsong gulch to me from Wow, but worse, and i would just as soon forgo the gimmicks.

It's pretty obvious who is kill trading and when it is going on if you've seen it. It doesn't take Sun Tzu to figure it out. 2 blobs of people taking turns aoe'ing each other and reforming. No back and forth, just taking turns.

Did anyone mention huttball....leave? That's what i do. When they give us an option to not que for it altogether i'll consider a deserter debuff. Until then, not happening.

crap system is crap. Most of us would rather have a token system rather than having the rng gods running the show.

Well that is at least not false advertising. The pvp, especially at 50 actually does "blow my mind", as they stated, just not the way i envisioned. Pvp in illum blows a lot of people's minds i am guessing. Pretty sad when DAOC did group warfare better 10 years ago.

I thought this was going to be about the 5 fps we get to play in with the zergs. Pass. Did you guys borrow shadowbane devs to code this crap? I keep expecting to get sb.exe errors at some point in illum.

As a vanguard i feel pretty safe from nerfs at this point. To say a 9k shot from one of my abilities would be surprising would be an understatement to say the least, any spec.

That;s ok, the devs probably don't either.

The archmage and warrior priest in warhammer were attempts at hybrids.

This topic has also been alluded to on the trooper/vanguard board in the top issues thread. Hopefully it crops up in a few more places and we can actually get a response by a dev.

Well thought out post that hit the nail on the head i think. My top concern is the shielding and defensive stats in pvp(i like to pvp), but the rest is an issue as well. How defenses work in pvp is boggling to me and how it went live in that state.

Yes, this is a big factor. I'd like a refund on the pieces with tank stats i bought.

To say they work as advertised is an outright lie which many here also seem to disagree with you on, so it isn't just me. You can define it however you want in your head to make yourself feel justified, but obviously a lot of people don't agree. There seems to be enough of a concern over this that it would warrant a response from someone other than another player, like maybe a dev? I know, that would be crazy...have a dev come explain to us what is going on after 100+ pages of discussion over tanking stats, gear budget, and tank skills.

There isn't a problem that needs fixing? That just isn't true in any way, shape or form. Skills,abilities,spec points, and stats on gear on not working correctly. The fact that you think this comes out ok in the wash and turns out fine means nothing. The stats need to work as advertised. It's a domino effect. These stats don't work, so why have skills based on them and gear sets revolving around them, etc. Just because you think it is balanced does not mean it is working right. Might they have to rebalance one they get things working properly...maybe? I actually don't even think they'll have to rebalance things. Defensive specced vanguards aren't exactly going to be rocking the damage. If they are atm it's due to stacking buffs, premade vs. pug, etc. rather than the class itself. We need this fixed and we need combat logs.

Yea, for some reason i don't see that answer flying. Once combat logs show up i'm pretty sure they would look like clowns and lose any credibility they might have had. The only defense they have is to keep silent and say nothing. The flip side to this is the longer the thread goes on and the problem goes unattended, the more they look like they have no idea what they are doing anyway. This creates a big problem for me. I need the tank gear to tank instances/raids with the guild, but the gear is damn near worthless in pvp, which i do a fair amount of. So basically, i need 2 sets of gear where others can get by with 1. Also, the spec i tank with being damn near worthless in pvp, i need to respec every time i switch between the two. This not being rift, i don't get 4 specs to bounce between and it isn't free to change on the fly. Pass. I'm going to sit on my hands and hope this gets addressed quickly. I've already told my guildies i'm going to play something else until it gets fixed and they need to find a pve tank as i have no interest in bouncing between the 2 and going through the random champion bag experience for a second set of gear. Hell, i'm only halfway through the first set. Quite simply, we got given bad information and a lot of people's gameplay is suffering due to it. It is a month into the game, i get that. What i don't get it the lack of response here and how this even went live in the first place. I understand pvp isn't the huge focus of this game, but having mechanics/stats work in the way they do currently after touting how tanks were going to be able to tank in pvp? Really?

I was really hoping we would get a response on this from a dev. Do they even know what we are complaining about? Maybe they know and don't feel like messing with it? Are we # 292 in the list of things that need fixing? I wish we would hear something...anything to at least know they are aware and are looking at it.

I don't see how a jugg guarded and being healed by pocket healers in huttball has anything to do with the problems we are seeing with shielding and defensive stats. Quit throwing garbage out there to cloud the issue.

This argument will go away once we get combat logs or someone mines some data for parses. I don't believe what you are saying is true, but without logs we'll just be going back and forth. I would say for people wondering, try it both ways. With our shielding/absorbtion not working properly i don't think you get much for the points spent in shielding imo. You definitely gain more dps by going into a dps tree than you lose defensively by losing your perks from the shielding tree, but without logs we can't put a number to the changes. Mileage may vary on that, but you should try it for yourself and see how it plays and decide what you think. I would end by saying a lot of tanks aren't real happy with how their shield specs are running in pvp and there is probably a reason behind it beyond wanting to be uber. The line is either broken in pvp or grossly ineffective in my opinion. The shielding is supposed to work on ranged or melee attacks, but we have found out that it works on only about 15% of the skills in the game. As more and more people gain this knowledge they will likely spec accordingly, so that 15% you actually get to use your shielding on will be far less when people spec around it and end up in your warzone.

It only works on melee and ranged attacks...yea, and your point? What attack isn't ranged or melee? I kind of figured attacks are either one or the other. Casters and snipers for example, would be ranged. A dual wielding jedi up your rear smacking you with sabres would be melee. So that leaves what? Ranged and melee pretty moves covers the attacks i would think.

Delongo, i would really like to know where you are getting your numbers. You live 2-3x as long in shield spec as opposed to the other 2? I'm sorry, but i call b.s. on this plain and simple. Your armor might go up a bit, what, 16%? You have a few mitigation tools such as smoke grenade, the rest is just basic trooper though. So you are trying to tell us the shield spec talents result in 3x survivability, really? Having been full shield spec and now running a hybrid i can say that is most definitely not my experience with it and i would love to see your numbers or something to back up that claim. I would say that is boastful and misleading to say the least. Perhaps this is due to who you are running against, as was said above. Do you have a pocket healer, have you tried running in another spec with this same healer while running guard/ion and pretending you are still a tank? My experience is a noticeable improvement in offense with little to no noticeable defensive drop-off. Bottom line - our defensive abilities/talents are not working properly. Currently we can trade off for more dps and not lose much, because there isn't much defensively to lose except for the armor, a smoke grenade, and a gap closer.