Soon, you'll all be able to TAB your way to pvp Nirvana.

Thank you for reading my threads. ;-) Unsub != delete It means I'll come back if they fix things. These forums are, at least to some extent, a place to provide feedback. Ya know? I really liked the game before 1.2. I'd like to like it again as I've invested at least as much time and money as you have. Also, I didn't unsub because I WAZ SO MAD. I had no choice. PVP remains unplayable on my server. Why pay for a game that isn't playable?

Well, just because people all die eventually doesn't stop researchers from curing diseases, ya know? Some system would be an improvement over no system.

TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB (not) TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB (really) TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB (everything) TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB TAB

Unsubscribed the day after 1.2 went live. I played pvp that night and felt the changes were horrible. The removal of the abort timer was the worst. Then I opened my eyes to all the other bugs / design flaws in the game that I was accepting, because I like smacking people with a virtual double bladed light saber. Afterwards, the Jedi mind trick Bioware had been playing on me was broken.

Awesome. Thanks. I've also asked guildmates to keep me posted if things improve. Guess I'll have to wait and see if this "minor patch" solves some of the problems 1.2 created. Wish they'd fix the que'ing as group thing too though.

He would have to move his mouse and acknowledge / deny vote kick requests. It would require some input. The point is, there are better systems.

If you quit immediately, you get a 30 minute timeout.

A deserter debuf + kick would mean that player gets removed and replaced. Also, that player wouldn't be able to requeue for a while. Increase the debuf for repeated wz ejection and that player is less and less involved.

I only see the note about changing minimum medal rewards, not the abort timer. Please post a link?

Well, at least an entire page 1 of mostly constructive dialog.

It may have more to do with server population. Mine was unfortunately low pop. It started as medium pop but I'm guessing a few left shortly after launch. I think cross server queues would be hard for them to implement. Just in terms of the code infrastructure it would take, that's not an easy one. On a low pop server, the current queue system makes pvp unplayable. It's the "unplayable" part that left some of us with no other option than to unsubscribe. Personally, the game doesn't hold that much allure for me to want to re-roll and re-level on another higher pop server.

I think it's possible to set up a queue mechanism where if you group with 8, you'll be waiting a bit longer for a queue. But at least you'd have the option to get another group of 8 to play against them. Groups of 4 are by no means guaranteed. We used to roll that. The second group would not always get into the same WZ. Plus it was such a pain to group, de-queue, queue, play, regroupd, re-de-queue, re-queue ... that 1/2 the time we didn't bother.

True, good points. Those would be easier to implement than what I proposed. Not sure it would be enough to bring me back. Maybe. Personally, I didn't have much problem with any classes pre 1.2. Missiles were annoying, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with. I also recall reading some reviews that praised pre 1.2 SWTOR for its PVP class balance, particularly since it was so early in the life cycle of the game.

I agree with you on your last point. But I disagree about the issue of N vs N matches. There are many algorithms that fix this. If nothing else, the queue system can ensure the match STARTS with only an equal number of players. Stupid has nothing to do with it, on a conceptual level anyhow.

Maybe this is the way to look at it. Perhaps the more positive title would promote a similarly positive discussion. Here's my list: 1. Fix the pvp queue system. Never let short handed matches start. 2. Add the ability to queue with 8 and fix grouping and queueing with 4. 3. Fix TAB targeting. 4. Add a deserter debuff. It just has to be long enough for them to no be able to join the next couple of queues. The debuff can increase too, much like the rez timer. I contend those 4 things would solve the majority of issues with the game. NOTE: Bioware has already stated (sticky at the top of this forum) that they're looking at the reward system post 1.2 and already plan to lower the minimum # of medals needed from 3 to 1. I suspect more warzone reward balancing is coming soon. Please, don't make this another "I want more rewards thread." If they fix the things I mention above, along with their already planned fixes to reward balance, you will get more rewards. I promise. Actually, the first three items above would be enough for me to come back. I suspect it's true of others. They would solve many problems. EG., if you find yourself getting smashed by a premade team, start your own and queue with them. Please, let's try to make this a constructive thread.

But why do warzones START short handed? I've rolled into games just after 1.2 came out where we were 5 v 8 from start to finish. Nobody quit. It happened repeatedly for pretty much the rest of the evening. Not always 5 v 8 but always short handed. Perhaps it's just a problem on my server. But it was enough to push me over the edge and cancel my subscription. Nobody in my guild has posted in our forums that the situation has gotten any better.

I can't wait to see real subscription numbers for this game after the 30 free days are up. Latest figures I saw show subs already peaked at 1.7 million and started to decline prior to 1.2. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think a population decline is a good thing so early in a game's life cycle. Actually, it's not just me. I checked. Lots of other MMO review sites say the same thing.

True, 3 v 8 matches are unsubstantiated much like short handed warzones in general. Such a big word for such a small ... The removal of the abort timer, however, is documented. So is the inability to queue with 8 players. I believe the problems with queueing with 4 are also documented someplace. Actually, lots of things are documented. Whether or not they are "substantiated" I leave to the grand jury of time.

Balance? What is this thing you speak of called "balance?" How do you pronounce it? What does it mean?

They only look at one real measure: A = $ coming in from subs B = $ going out to pay for people and resources If A is larger than B by an acceptable amount, they keep going regardless of what people say here. It's that simple. We're not talking about a small video game design studio. We're talking about one of the biggest. The new BMW M series is expensive. So is the new Ferrari 458. Somebody has to pay for it.

I'm shocked Gabe's "explanation" is still at the top of their dev blog list. Perhaps a follow up explanation is in order, Gabe?

Right, I'm just talking about the warzones starting unbalanced. It was a problem prior to 1.2 and I could swear having read something about how they were going to add new queue logic that solved the problem. I never in my wildest nightmares would have thought that "logic" was the removal of the abort timer. It's past 9am in Austin. You'd think someone would have commented. I mean, look at all Gabe had to say about patch 1.2 I'm surprised they've left this post up in their news section. Read it now and tell me how it makes you feel. Gabe Amatangelo explains some of the upcoming changes and design choices for PvP. I wish Gabe would splain some more after the patch went live. He seems to like to "explain."

You know, there is an easier way. If you click on a player's icon to the left, you can then add them to your ignore list on the next screen. Works amazingly well, which quite honestly surprises me. I bet the forums were a purchased 3rd party product. Now, back to the original discussion. 3 v 8 should never happen in a game, even one that's in beta. 6 v 8 shouldn't have happened prior to 1.2 either. These design flaws point to the real issue. Bioware doesn't listen to PTR feedback and is struggling with managing an MMO with a PVP component. I wish Lucasarts had never granted them the right to use light sabers.

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that. I've been trying to deploy Orwellian logic instead and I think I have it. IF: 2 + 2 = 5 THEN: 3 + 8 = 16 At least if you can get people to believe it, and pay for it.