The question becomes, at what point in crit/surge DR does alacrity pull ahead? It sounds like the energy regen portion shouldn't even be considered given the lack of energy problems 2.0 is bringing. As it stands for lethality, you can have a lot of time where you aren't casting anything, but dots are ticking. Surge and crit have no competition during those periods.

The changes are overpowered when compared to our competition on live servers. When everyone gets to 55 and uses their new talents and abilities it might be exactly where we need it. If not we might see a change.

Did you read the patch notes?

Nice games. I find it highly coincidental that almost every pub team has 2-3 healers and each imp team usually was lucky to have 1.

Honestly I've tried hybridizing operative healing but it just isn't for me. You become a mediocre healer to be more of a mediocre dps. It is only good in small skirmishes.

Yeah unlike concealment we don't rely on deb for offense. It is nice having a shorter cooldown but since I use it smart instead of always for offense it ends up being off cooldown for over 15 secs anyways. It is easier to not pick it now the speed boost is on shiv (which is a great change).

Like I said, it will be a trial and error thing figuring out the new stat priority and how it plays with talents and playstyle. It'll take me a week or two once the expansion goes live and i hit 55 to figure out the "perfect" balance for me.

That's pretty much the spec I was going for. Until I test it myself I can't say for sure how I feel about energy cost reduction talents. I might only go 1 point or 0 if energy is never an issue. One thing you prob weren't doing on your dummy test was exfiltrating and frag grenades. Both of which are high energy cost. Saving energy elsewhere makes rolling more useable without creating an energy issue.

Well I haven't really looked at sniper changes nor have I played 2.0 myself but assuming gear is not a variable, then LoS will be the biggest determining factor of the outcome. If the sniper can keep up with me on dmg, then me being able to Los/cc and heal up will be what causes me to win. Even without Los being able to do a few exfiltrates away to his one should give me some breathing room and time to reset the fight. I shouldn't have to though if I get the opener. Also I can cleanse his dots away without blowing a dcd. The sniper would have to either severely outgear me, be much more skilled at his class to overcome the advantages my class has over his, or be in the wide open.

Not bad but I will be putting 1 point into surgical strikes and 2 into cull energy reduction. I will have to work with my toon to see if the alacrity talent is worth it.

Why would you hate to agree with the voice of reason? ;-)

He said more viable simply to better burst and better node ninjaing capability. I focused on the incorrect portion of his statement. I wasn't arguing the viability portion, but rather the reasons he thinks they will be viable. Just like if he said concealment will have more viability since it has higher dot dmg. He might be right on the viability argument, but not for the reason he stated.

I merely corrected someone that said that concealment was measurably better at "ninjaing" nodes and they have better burst. You have a habit of taking it personally and turning it into class viability instead of focusing on the topic at hand....in this case it was me debunking what that guy said. Ie show me your 13-15k burst in 2 gcds or less, or how concealment is somehow better equipped to cc cap a node over lethality. Do not talk about 1v1 viability or who is better in the fray or who is more widely accepted on ranked teams. That was not what was being discussed. The fanboy comment was a light hearted jab not to be taken personally, because I like you.

Some ppl just aren't meant to play certain specs. And if you're referring to you hitting a 7k hs, I'd like to see the buffs you had and the bad gear your opponent had. The highest I ever saw in concealment was lower to mid 6k's. Average was 4.7-5.8k I'd say.

Just going to agree to disagree. You are arguing that you using one of your defensive cooldowns for offense to get a second SF somehow is comparable to cull spam. I understand you're a huge scrapper fanboy, and I'll respect you if you never respec based on strength of another spec. I have seen the changes to both specs and I think lethality will pull way ahead. The main reason someone would rather have conceal will be because of cc breaking will still occur with lethality. Other than that it will be about the player not the spec.

So you think being in stealth and behind your target is no more or less of a problem than having dots on a target? Even against a class that can cleanse they still have to do it twice. Also using gcds to do so. With the changes, lethality can instantly apply both dots whenever they want. Energy isn't even a big concern with it. As for the burst, it depends on what u consider burst to be. Personally I go with the time from when dmg occurs to when the dmg ends. For instance, a guy that can open on someone and kill them in 6 seconds is less bursty than the guy that really doesn't do much dmg for 10 secs then bam, takes out 90% of their health in a global. Some use that method while others prefer the total time from engaging to time of death. I will concede that conceal on average might take someone out faster from time of engagement till death, because most of their burst dmg isn't as heavily rng based. In the extreme, lethality pulls ahead (triple cull crits etc). When talking about burst dmg between any two points in time (most dmg done in shortest period) lethality will win outside of all non crits.

If I remember correctly the new relics had a butt load of expertise. Like 100+. You'd be missing out on a lot of dmg reduction, dmg, and healing because you want 120 or w/e static power.

Biggest flaw that most concealment ops have in their logic. Contrary to popular belief, your burst is NOT higher than lethality. Your opener, and biggest burst hits for less than cull. It requires you be in stealth and behind the target. Also has a cooldown. With fatality and stim boost you could see 4 culls in 4 gcds. Even non crits would be around 3k a pop. Ninja node generally means capping it with ppl present. In that case, conceal really has very little over leth when it comes to ninjaing nodes. Now if you mean killing someone and capping quickly, sure conceals burst is front loaded and might pull ahead. Lethality can now setup their burst inside of a sap. Sap > dart > grenade > shiv > wb > stim boost + cull > cull > ep + cull. Or you could open with hs, shiv, wb, flash bang. Dot em up, ep, cull, stim boost then double cull. Not really a lot more time spent in gcds compared to concealment. It will boil down to the player not the spec.

It is really the combination of all the changes not each individual change. All of this is speculation at this point due to lack of testing and it not being live yet. We aren't lvl 55 with 55 gear so maybe it won't wont be op by comparison to the strengths of other classes. My concern is that the spec is going to be strong in every situation. Average players will be strong, great players will devour teams.

I guess I really don't want a massive amount of players to reroll lethality cuz of the buffs. I despise playing Fotm specs regardless of whether I respecced/rerolled to it.

I love the changes but feel some of them are too strong. Poison grenade is crazy as I understand it. Half the energy, 2 extra targets, and NO cooldown. With poison crits giving energy back this grenade just became one of the most important talents in the tree. It is almost too efficient. It can be a spammable slow, energy regen and dps boost. If they gave it a short 5 sec cooldown that would make it more balanced. The idea of crazy regen combined with our new roll makes us borderline OP.

Of course I could always use more regen, but I could always use more power too. Just gotta think is what I'm giving up worth it?

Tired of the misuse of the term stun lock. 4 sec stun lock? Really? In Wow getting stun locked meant upwards of 20+ sec of no action. I also despise when ppl say stun when they are in a cc breakable by dmg.

Yeah because tank/healer vs tank/healer in every 2v2 wouldn't be boring as hell. Every match would go the distance. And don't kid yourself if you think any other combo has a chance against an equally skilled opponent. 3v3 would be slightly better with most teams running tank/healer/something. But triple dps would at least have a decent shot in this bracket. 4v4 would prob be the better environment for arena style matches, although I'm against the idea.

Just noticed corrosive grenade buff. Half the energy, 5 targets instead of 3.