The numbers don't lie. Either snipers/gunslingers need a buff of some sort, or Sages/sorcerers need a nerf. Otherwise, the sniper has no purpose since there is a class that is better in every way.

I've seen how Sages do damage, it's through that ungodly pebble spam that roughly matches the average output of a sniper but also includes a snare that makes it more difficult to break line of sight or get close enough to use debilitate. So you laid down a couple of DoTs before you commenced pelting me to death with the intermittent self-heal, even if it's not speced. Thats the same damage, more CC, and heals which a sniper has 0 access to. Something is wrong here, either with sages or with Snipers.

They have multiple heals. by the time they've cycled through their alternative heals, their spammable is available again.

So the Sorc/Sage should have about the same damage output, better CC, better tools for survival, and better tools to support the rest of the team than Snipers? Note that I'm citing numbers here and the numbers say Sage > Sniper.

Then snipers are UP. See numbers above.

repost from another thread, but the points are valid More than a sniper has. Snipers get shield probe once every 45 seconds and it only last for 15 seconds and can be overloaded, though I'm not sure on the HP value. You can recast your bubble before the previous one fades, or replace it once it falls once. 30m ranged hard stun. Snipers get a hard stun too, in melee range. Sniper get, wait... no, we don't. Snipers can talent to have adrenaline probe (2min cooldown) heal 6% of our total Hp over 6 seconds (900 hp if you have 15k health) snipers get corrosive dart, which is 3315 damage over 15 second, or 221 DPS. Snipers get Leg shot, which lasts 5 seconds, but breaks on damage and has a cooldown of 15 seconds, talented down to 12 seconds. Guess what, your abilities that even have an analogue with the dedicated ranged DPS class are all supperior. Add to that you have a bunch of abilities that snipers don't even have anything to compare to, and your damage type ignores defense and shield ratings. When you have a skill similar to a sniper's, it's better or comparable, with the one exception of flash-bang, and you have skills and abilities that snipers can't. Except that you ignored the class that you are most similar to when you are speced DPS.

IMO, if it's on an RP PvP server, it should be a problem because the Voss-Ka authorities are keeping the peace, IC.

Yes, because the only way you can win in world PvP is to wait until the guy is at the vendor.

first off, I've been in fights where 1% has made the difference. Secondly, it's a 20% deficit, not 10%. You had a 10% boost in outgoing damage against non-expertise, and a 10% reduction on incoming damage from non-expertise. No matter who you are, 20% is a big difference.

most interrupts stop 1 ability for 4 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. If you can't figure out 3 useful things to fill the GCD time with, you've got other issues. Honestly, interupting a sniper wouldn't do much to their damage output regardless because if you interrupt SoS, it's base cooldown is 9s anyways. if you interrupt snipe, the sniper can (and should) use explosive probe, shattering shot, corrosive dart, or frag grenade followed by either a SoS or Ambush. by the time the channel cast is over, snipe will be available again. And that's assuming that you can't just fill the gap with an ambush/follow-through combo. You don't seem to understand that Snipe is the only skill that we can really 'spam', but it's also among our lowest priorities to cast.

NO! PvP would be about skill then! We can't have veterans loosing to newbies! That's wrong! /sarcasm.

Gunslingers and Snipers can be played well and contribute significantly to the team. However, if you check the thread about how sages/sorcs are not OP, I have a post that does a point by point comparison between sniper and sage 'support' abilities that shows how literally anything that a marksman build sniper can do, a Sage can do better.

More than a sniper has. Snipers get shield probe once every 45 seconds and it only last for 15 seconds and can be overloaded, though I'm not sure on the HP value. You can recast your bubble before the previous one fades, or replace it once it falls once. 30m ranged hard stun. Snipers get a hard stun too, in melee range. Sniper get, wait... no, we don't. Snipers can talent to have adrenaline probe (2min cooldown) heal 6% of our total Hp over 6 seconds (900 hp if you have 15k health) snipers get corrosive dart, which is 3315 damage over 15 second, or 221 DPS. Snipers get Leg shot, which lasts 5 seconds, but breaks on damage and has a cooldown of 15 seconds, talented down to 12 seconds. Guess what, your abilities that even have an analogue with the dedicated ranged DPS class are all supperior. Add to that you have a bunch of abilities that snipers don't even have anything to compare to, and your damage type ignores defense and shield ratings. When you have a skill similar to a sniper's, it's better or comparable, with the one exception of flash-bang, and you have skills and abilities that snipers can't. Except that you ignored the class that you are most similar to when you are speced DPS.

Assassins can. Assassins can also stealth. I can foresee this actually turning out to be a significant problem.

Ok, I didn't know that. Point conceded.

You know what, I just figured out the answer, for PvP at least: Cover. If it weren't a prerequisite for out abilities, we would never enter cover in PvP because Tech, Force, and Melee attacks ignore cover.

Quite.

Cover=meaningless against melee, force, and tech-based attacks, so basically, yes, it only works against other snipers.

This is just silly, and I'm assuming that you're trolling. The assumption that you're making is that the opperative would have the jump on the other stealther for some reason, even though it's a situation that is obviously a 50/50 chance of who spots who first. I've caught opperatvies and scoundrels as they were attempting to set up, and killed them with my sniper, one of them was a notorious buff stacker who is also pretty good. If you pay attention and have a little bit of luck, you can spot a stealther and tag them with a rifle shot, or whatever to break their stealth. Operative out of stealth against an opponent who is at full health generally means that operative is haveing a bad day. If you can't hunt down an op with your shadow and get better than 50/50 odds of who spots who first, that's a personal problem.

Shields work against Marksman snipers and marauders, mostly. Everyone else's bread and butter pretty much ignores shields and defense.

My perfectly honest opinion is that Sorcs/Sages are overpowered based on the combination of powers, many of which are better versions of what the other ranged DPS builds have. Compare Overload with Cover burst and Concussion Charge. Compare Static Barrier with Shield Probe. Force speed is a means of escape that no other ranged DPS class has anything to compare to. Compare Force Lighting and Snipe. Alternately, compare force lightning with SoS. Sorcerers/sages are the only DPS class with linear energy regeneration, and they have the largest energy pool, even relative to ability costs. Their disadvantage is that they have light armor. However, they also have deflection, which the other ranged DPS classes do not. This is without even mentioning the extra utility that they bring to the table, which vary depending on their spec. Most of these utilities outstrip the capabilities of snipers, at the least. All that said, I'm not going to be crying for sorcerer/sage nerfs; I'm just laying down my one-sided perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if they were first or second pick of the Nerf bat, though.

Considering that this feature is also in the game, this may well actually be working as intended.

So what you're saying here, is that actual skill has no place in an MMORPG, only time invested?

Honestly? If it doesn't hurt you any that people can get the top-end gear in PvP faster, because you know, you're not actually playing against them in PvE (see that 'E' it stands for 'Enviroment', meaning that you're not pitted against other players), I don't see a problem. So some people are doing the top tier raid sooner than you are because they got their gear trough PvP. Are you really so damned egotistical that this cannot be allowed? You can still run your raids just fine and get your gear at the same rate as if there were no gear at all available to PvP players. If it doesn't hurt or hinder you in any way, why should it bother you?

No, we actually agree regarding the effect a PvP stat. It keeps PvPers in PvP and it keeps PvEers in PvE. You think it is a good thing to restrict a person's access to the game. I think it is a bad thing. An MMO that lasts for 7 years is a highly successful MMO. Guess what, though, there are good number of games that have been around for longer than WoW, and are still profitable. Correct, no one would wake up and say that. You need an entire internet forum of whiny idiots constantly pestering you to do something this incredibly over-complicated and self-destructive. What are the unintended consequences that you predict, oh wise one? PvPers succeeding in Nightmare raids! The horror! PvEers holding their own in PvP! The catastrophe! People will play what they want to play, not what you say they should play. If you prevent people from playing the game they want to, then you loose subs. Some of us want to play both PvP and PvE, but you can't stand that thought. Guess what happens when people can't play the game that they want to play? They stop playing your game. I want to play the WHOLE game, not just half of it. Me playing the whole game in no way prevents ANYONE, ANYWHERE from playing the half that they like and ignoring the other half. DAoC was an example of a successful loot system that crossed PvE and PvP, proving that the 'necessity' of a PvP stat is false. Nothing more, nothing less. You insist that PvP and PvE can't possibly be balanced without a PvP stat. DAoC loot is proof that you are wrong in that assertion. Expertise is a poorly thought out crutch to compensate for poor design.