Well said.

I understand what your goal was completely, just noting that is was not a very accurate assessment. After classes I'll attempt to make a concise guide of was written.

Outstanding. I'm incredibly happy to know that at least one other person is on the same wavelength as I. My favorite part of this game is being able to break down every part of each gametype and determining what is the BEST thing to do to affect the outcome of the game and not just blindly put up numbers. Ill be discussing the other pertinent topics you brought up in another thread in the future. Hope to have some good discussions/debates concerning awareness/strategy in the days to come.

Yeay, another person claiming that they know about all of this and that it's all obvious and simple and derpy derp to all players. Sorry, but until I witness other players formally discussing these things, or actually doing it in a war zone, I'm going to call ********.

This is a rather simple, shallow summary of what was written. I would suggest new readers to neglect it. You can't summarize awareness/strategy with a single statement. Not everyone can infer the valuable information from a series of single statement.

Excellent. And yes, there is no excuse for the immaturity. I shouldn't have that tone if I actually want to help people improve themselves. Thanks for the constructive criticism and feedback.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. Your mere two incredibly poor summarized points of my thread are egregious. I'm not even going to comment on that. And obviously, VS can be broken down to a much more intricate level. Talking about it is much more effective, typing is not my forte. But yes, if you are an attacker and your team gets to the bridge you do need to wipe everyone on the defending side so you can arm the bridge. That is why PTs/SINs should do like I said and just be jumping off of the map and pulling enemies with them ( I never see this, sad imo). You get put in this position if your team has a poor transition, in which you should refer to my most OBVIOUS points (one of which you mentioned, gj), and also the SILVER RULE OF VS. Go reread the thread please. Title does suck. Thanks for the further degradation of the quality of this thread as it is really helping everyone improve their gameplay.

Hi Banderal. You ask, how do you count the ticks? You literally, LOOK at the ticks on the door. That is how you count the ticks. Often times I'll be in LOS so I can see the ticks on the door. As anyone knows, you're going to get drawn away from LOS of the door at times though, at that point you'll be best served to have somewhat of a 'mental timer' in your head going off. Example: You just looked up at the door and saw that there were 3 ticks left. An opposing PT just pulled you 30m away. Since you know there was just 3 ticks left on the door, your mental timer in your head usually has a pretty good estimate of when the door will open... regardless of actually seeing it or having an EXACT timer going off as if you were actually timing it. And also, no. I'm not presuming that you can kill the entire team in the space of 10~15 seconds and make them all respawn behind the door with 4 ticks left on it. That is absurd to assume. This is what I'm trying to get people to realize: Stop doing, BLIND dps. The kills you get on VS should completely be dictated by how many ticks are on the door. YES, sometimes you will kill defenders when they only have 1 tick left, but you can stop that from happening more often than not be adhering to the golden rule. You can start to begin to implement the golden rule with ONE STEP and then work your way up the skill ladder because it is not easy. STEP ONE: This is the easiest way for you to see the effectivity of the golden rule. There is an 8v8 going on at one side of the map. You see that the defender's door is about to open in ~3seconds. You see a PT with 4k health left hiding behind the pillar. INSTEAD of immediately going to finishing him off, you instead resist the urge for a mere ~4 seconds and THEN kill him because you KNOW that their door had just opened ( therefore was just about to close as well ). So instead of giving him a FREE door by killing him immediately, you used your brain and followed the GOLDEN RULE and made that PT sit out of the match for upwards of 20~30 seconds because you know that you killed him and his door just closed in his face . >At this point of the match it is now a 8v7 for 20~30 seconds. The GOLDEN RULE advocates for attackers to dictate when to kill a defender to be a function of how many ticks are left on the door. As you get better at implementing the GOLDEN RULE into your game, you can start getting multiple enemies low on health by switching amongst them all (instead of focusing down somebody and moving on to the next, it requires more skill/awareness.) GOLDEN RULE does not work every time, it is not fail-proof. PVP is a crazy scene at times! But if you start to implement it in your game, you'll see that your KILLS will affect the game more so than just by putting points on the stat sheet. Your BLIND KILLS will effectively become INTENTIONAL KILLS and your opposition will be wondering why they are so 'unlucky' to be behind the respawn door so much, when in reality there is no luck anymore, because you are controlling their respawn door by using the GOLDEN RULE.

Thanks for the response. You claim that if you die as an attacker, you can sometimes respawn further back in the map than where you died, correct? Well, I have a solution for you. As soon as JUST ONE of you teammates gets ahead to where the next objective is, you automatically spawn at the next spawn point. So this might be a little tough for you to implement, since you have not even learned of it yet, but just open your map after you die and make sure someone is ahead so you will spawn right next to them. I bet you thought that the game just 'randomly' gave you spawns after you died, amirite? That's not true though. Example: You are an attacker and your team just armed the second bomb. The bomb goes off. Everyone begins to transition forward and you are in a 1v1 at the bridge. You decide to die at the bridge because you've listened to me ( but you don't admit it ). Instead of immediately spawning, you instead open your map and wait 2 to 3 seconds for your friendly sorc to make it RIGHT PAST the point of the map where your next spawn point is. Which is right where the 3 barriers are located. You spawn ahead of everyone else. BAM. I don't blame you for not being aware though, I see people streaming on Twitch.tv that are 'good', that don't even know something simple as that. So thanks, Jenna'syyde your neighborhood NOOB, for representing all those who need to be further educated.

I believe each tick is ~5 seconds.

Could you rephrase this please? I don't understand it, could just be me ?

Exactly, you dunno! Nah, I kid. All Overdoser and I do is win games, all I do is win, win, win. Good memories.

Thank you for the response. This is my first day to use these forums, or any forums for that matter. I am not well versed with picking out trolls and stupidity and separating the two.... laughing at/with the trolls, and just ignoring the stupidity. Your post does, somewhat, set me back even further though. All of the responses that state that most of what I said was obvious to most players and is being implemented in most player's gameplay is just pure garbage. I'm sorry, but that is just what it is. I have been PVP'ing in this game off and on for the past seven or so months. I wised up about 2.5 months ago and rerolled on POT5 for better gameplay. Shadowland's pvp is just abysmal. After PVP'ing on POT5 for a solid 2 months I saw maybe 2 players that actually knew how to play the game. They had high awareness throughout every game regardless of what map it was and regardless of what situation they were placed in. Something that would get unnoticed by a player that does not have high awareness... I digress, I have not seen much of POT5 so I can relate you to another circumstance that just leads me to believe even further that the 'average pvper' does almost none of the things I mentioned about VS, NOR do they even discuss it. Over the past month of so I've seen many individuals that stream PVP on Twitch.tv, these individuals are apart of the supposed, BEST teams in the game right now. That being, the guild -Casual- and the guild -MVP-. Not in a single stream have I heard anyone mention the GOLDEN RULE OF VS, much less actually *********** implement it in a game. The SILVER RULE OF VS is a tad more mainstream in the sense that most people know to stall the defenders, but they still are the same people that kill the defenders as well; which effectively breaks the SILVER RULE that takes place during transition mode. My point is that if the supposed top guilds in the games are not implementing these tactics, or even talking about it, what can possibly lead me to believe that the 'average' pvp'er has these tactics as a part of their game? Please, do tell. I know of ONE other person that thinks as I do to win games. He's the best at it. Overdoser/Nosferatu/Humungus - he plays on POT5. Other than him, if anyone else posts in here I'm assuming I've educated you in one way or another.

I would have deleted this thread if I knew how to!

You're just noticing this?

I've played with Hallow on numerous occasions. I know he's not a scrub. I'm just going to ignore your attempt to revive a dead, and dumb, debate. I'm over it.

I don't think it is a poor assumption considering that 99% of players do not adhere to the golden rule. Do you agree with that? So assuming that you were a part of the 99% is not a bad assumption in my book! I'll keep that duly noted though, you're part of the 1%. Sorry for not giving you the benefit of the doubt that is not due to most individuals.

Ok, Mr. Smart Guy. Lets see if you can re-read my post for the third time and we'll see if you can understand logic. "Sorry, I'm basing my current thoughts off of the assumption that I believe that as a human being, if you have the capacity to implement intelligent gaming I AUTOMATICALLY assume you can carry out the brute force part since it is the easy part. Gawd, logic is so tough isn't it." Let me point this out since you more than likely missed it again... Do you see the word that comes after intelligent? The descriptive word that comes after intelligent is GAMING. I'm specifically referring to intelligent GAMING. I said nothing about being intelligent in real life, although it is obvious that you more than likely need to be at least semi-intelligent in RL to be an intelligent gamer. Now that your fail argument, has been proven null, please try to be somewhat productive.

Indeed Hallow. Knowing what should be done and doing it are two different things. If you're working by yourself, being able to KILL someone and being aware of the current state of the tickers on the door is not as easy as one might think. Just as an obvious example, you'll find yourself messing up and giving people free doors if you kill them too soon when trying to optimize the GOLDEN RULE. As one of the FEW good, bursty operatives that play this game. You should apply the GOLDEN RULE rather effectively.

Stop degrading the thought level of this thread to talking about stats I already said they were irrelevant because they are easy to put up. If you're discussing STATS I'll go ahead and assume that you're bad and that improving your stats per game is the only way you can improve yourself as a gamer trying to WIN GAMES. None of you guys are even mentioning a single thing to debate/converse the "GOLDEN RULE OF VOIDSTAR" or anything else that is relevant in this thread. Try to stay on subject, this thread is for improving the quality of SWTOR's PVP Community.

Wow. Perhaps you should go back to grade school and learn what your 'greater than' and 'less than' signs mean. > = greater than < = less than Remember, they are like alligators right? I'll take you back to grade school mmmk kiddie? Intelligence > Brute Force MEANS that intelligence is more valuable than brute force. NOT that brute force should be neglected entirely.

That is a fair point MobiusZero but I still find it to be the point of view from most all individuals. So I'll go ahead and assume that you'll continue to just try and DPS/kill things in a VS instead of implementing some brain thought that goes past the level of just pushing buttons. Crowd mentality FTW amirite?

I'm referring SPECIFICALLY to PVP in this video game called SWTOR. Not real life, Hallow

Agreed. As Hallow mentioned already, Brute Force is needed as well. Sorry, I'm basing my current thoughts off of the assumption that I believe that as a human being, if you have the capacity to implement intelligent gaming I AUTOMATICALLY assume you can carry out the brute force part since it is the easy part. Gawd, logic is so tough isn't it.

Ok MobiusZero I think it is obvious that a certain amount of dmg should be achieved per match or questions could be asked, depending on the gametype. Once again, DERP. You people are missing the point.