ssfish
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Posts posted by ssfish
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If you aren't intending to optimize your rotation, then go Rage. Vengeance suffers horribly with sub-optimal ability selection, whereas Rage has a bit more room for error (as well as a much easier rotation to learn in the first place).
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I've already provided my input on the questions to both class reps. They can choose to take that and use it to develop the PvE question from it, or they can not. Since I have provided both with my opinion on what the question should be centered around, my involvement in the actual process is over. Now is the time for me to be "off-topic" by discussing guardians on the guardian forums.
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I don't disagree on any point. The problem is once you start giving utility powers out to us, then the devs are going to start hearing from everyone they need one for their class. Vanguards have what for utility? Harpoon? What will Shadows have to secure a spot over two Sents/Maras? Stealth? If its an enrage issue that won't help. So they will start saying they need powers.
And whos to say even if we get a utility power that the Guardian will be picked over a Sentinel? Any utility power we receive would have to at least be as powerful as Inspiration and most likely more powerful to warrant picking the Guardian because lets say the two players are equally skilled, the Sentinel still has the higher damage ceiling. Now exacerbate the problem over multiple classes if they are granted utility powers that are equal to or more powerful than Inspiration. Content would have to be redesigned to take in account these changes.
Again I'm not disagreeing with you, because I agree we need something to make the ideal setup not just be Slingers/Sents. But trying to think of it from a developers standpoint, trying to do it like this sounds like a nightmare.
I don't even really need to see the ideal setup change. I just want something that makes us more than Marauder-lite. This can be any number of things, honestly, but I just saw the Alacrity idea and pointed out what it could provide. Do I think it's the best option? No, probably not. But I do like the idea.
We have some nifty tools already, but nothing that really stands out as all that impressive in a group setting.
I get where you are coming from, and because of those issues, I agree that other methods of achieving this would be easier/better than giving us some kind of raid-wide buff. Most obviously, adjustments to Vigilance/Vengeance to allow more consistency would be a good place to start. Taking a bit of the random factor out of that spec would allow us to better determine where the class truly falls within the scope of DPS classes.
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The problem with giving us a raid wide buff is going to be everyone is going to want one for their class. Its best to leave that box unopened in my mind.
We have nothing to offer a raid group, as a class (DPS). Certain players can perform at an equal level to other classes, but there is currently zero reason to take a Jugg/Guardian on a raid, unless you have a lazy Slinger, no Commando, and no Guardian tank. As a class, our numbers alone don't justify our position in a raid group, since there are multiple classes that can meet or exceed while having more utility or an easier time achieving those numbers (or both).
And if the Class Rep Q&A is an indication of things to come, once Sentinels and Marauders can build stacks during Bloodthirst/Predation, that 2nd melee spot that we are able to fill should be getting replaced by a 2nd Sentinel (though an Operative/Scoundrel is already a better pick than a Guardian/Jugg for that spot), assuming we don't get something to make us desirable to a raid group.
*To be clear, we are currently viable for all content in the game. By taking a Guardian DPS, the group is making a conscious decision to give up some utility and/or DPS potential in that slot, unless you have a player that performs on the Guardian better than the available alternatives, but then we are discussing players and not classes..
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To return to a conversation from a few days ago, a group wide Alacrity buff would not be wasted on our own class, as someone had stated. Rage/Focus would see a noticable gain from an Alacrity buff due to V.Slash spamming (zero CD), which in turn reduces downtime between smashes. During the Enrage/Combat Focus portion of the rotation, and depending, of course, on the amount of Alacrity, we would likely be able to cut out one entire global before the next Smash. This, in turn, would push our next Force Crush back, but it would still fall within the optimal window so as not to waste a global waiting for that third stack before Smash.
As far as usefulness for Veng/Vig, it would be ideal for the start of a fight when all of our abilities are available, then those mid-fight phases where we see a Shatter/PB > Impale/OS > Scream/BS > Ravage/MS alignment.
I could see it messing with a Marksman Sniper's rotation if they aren't prepared for it, as well as possibly an Anni Marauder (not sure here, since I've only played Carnage, and admittedly don't have the best grasp on Anni), but many of the other DPS classes use zero CD rotations that would require only a little adjustment to account for internal lockouts on procs.
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*refuses his turn to puff on the bong of pretention...then puffs anyway*
Honestly? I'd exchange this random ravage proc rubbish for an equivalent upgrade in generic bleed dps.
I'm in a warzone...my target is mobile...ravage resets, but I need a different attack. Oh I get mezzed. The target speeds away and line of sights from charge. Pick 100 different examples of how vig/veng gameplay could become less static. With the current over-indulgence with ravage/masterstrike animations, I'd really exchange the ravage reset for an increase in bleeds.
Put that in yer pipe and smoke it.
Make the other two bleeds do in the realm of 500-600 per tick, and make the third tick on Ravage apply a Deathfield/Weakening Blast type of debuff, and I'm fine with leaving Ravage at 30 seconds. Just make sure that Rampage sill refunds Rage.
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It would appear that you clipped the front? The parse starts with a 9k spike at the instant it begins. No front clipping.
Orbital Strike on all 3 targets to begin the pull...
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Dipstik confirmed on the test server. Unless it got changed when it went from test to live, it should be the same.
I wish I'd paid more attention to the tanking topics then... I wouldn't have bothered to learn the click relic for our tanks.
Thanks.
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Abs proc and Def proc are now the effective BiS for all tanks. Swapping out the Abs proc relic for a Shield/Abs use relic for specific fights, such as TfB, Writhing Horror, and other bosses with significant tank downtime is BiS for those fights, but it's conditional and only a marginal improvement. The general case that will work for pretty much everyone is double proc relics (which I think is actually the new BiS for *everyone*).
Has it been confirmed that the Absorb proc and Defense proc are considered different types and now work in conjunction? They are both 20 second defensive procs, and don't seem to me to be different types of relics. It just seems like it is the same as using an Energy damage proc relic in conjunction with an Internal damage proc relic.
(I get that one is procced off of a successfully shielded attack, while the other is off any attack, and that would be the one caveat for them working together that I can see)
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This is not true at all. Marauders have one, a raid wide one at that. Snipers have one that makes their next snipe a automatic crit. Sorcs and Assassin have one that makes their next 2 force attacks crit. Mercs have an ability that makes their next ability free and instant cast, and one that makes the next 2 casts free heat to use. I'm sure there are more I'm missing. Juggs have 0
It is 100% true. It's just a different truth than what you are trying to point out.
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Yea that should be easy enough to determine. NiM Styrak for example wiill be around 700-800 minutes long, always. The raid log (i think) should also include enters combat and exit combat. Not sure if you get that when you DC. I know you certainly don't get that when you get killed. I guess to some extent it will also be an "honor system" like what they have in the dummy thread. lol
Not to mention we have you guys to double check
That would make title run kind of hard, no?
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Now if you are arguing for the sake of pve, guardian dps SHOULD be behind pure damage specs because it is also a tank class. Furthermore in fights with lots of AoE, focus is not behind at all because of its amazing burst AoE.
First, a DPS Guardian/Juggernaut is not a tank. They are a DPS class, just like a Carnage Marauder is a DPS class. Saying that we should be substandard because of a spec option that we are not using is a horrible idea, and if it were applied in this game, every single raid group would/should run 1 Marauder and 3 Snipers (or 2:8/3:7) (which is already the "ideal" makeup in current endgame, anyways.)
In this game, we have the option of being a tank or a damage dealer at any given time; not both.
Second: Focus is very minimally behind Vigilance in single-target currently, and in AoE/mechanically-adverse fights far surpasses what Vigilance can do.
*Hopefully the emphasis is apparent, but just in case it was missed, we are a tank or DPS, not a tank and DPS, and as such references to tanking have no place in a conversation about our role as a damage dealer.
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It's been quite some time, so maybe I'm misremembering, but did not Immortal used to have a talent to reduce rage cost and GCD of the AoE snare? I seem to recall it being just spammed non-stop in Huttball matches back in the day.
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Well that's an exceptional Idea. It would however force us as "dps'ers" to encourage increasing our defence ratings. It would have to be a remarkable ability for someone to switch their gear simply to capitalize on. Only immortal/vengeance hybrids would truly reap rewards from this, for they use retaliation more in their rotations.
..unless this new idea you propose would be linked to sabre ward. So... (insert new retaliation ability thing here) provides... (x amount damage/or new ability proc) during the use of sabre ward. LoL sorry that may seem confusing, point I'm getting at is, currently retaliation for me seldom, to never, ever procs unless sabre ward is up.
I was thinking of it in conjunction with Saber Ward, yes, but not exclusively so like you suggest. The ability just seems, to me, to be wasted at the moment. Immortal gets boons from using it, and Marauders have talents to spec into, but the spec called Vengeance has nothing to improve their counter-attack ability.
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Just throwing something out there that those of y'all that PvP can shoot down... Why not incorporate Retaliation into the Vengeance mix? Give it some sort of utility in Vengeance - another bleed, chance to proc Destroyer, whatever. Right now, it's just an attack off of the GCD, which is nice, but given its expense, I would think it would be a good place to add on something.
Obviously it would be of minimal consequence us PvEers, since we only see Retaliation in specific circumstances
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I don't pve much, I'd like to, for I have yet to see the inside of most operations. I think they are designed beautifully and one day perhaps......sorry for rambling.
So what would you guys think about Rampage instead offering 3-4 seconds reduction for Ravage per point, and including a proc "Rampage", that is a revolving 30% chance to proc a 9% crit boost to the next successful melee strike? This is the passive version we've been brainstorming on in another thread.
Just did some quick eyelid math on it, and a 3 second reduction per Impale/Shatter would give us a 15 second effective cooldown on Ravage, which would put it right at the average seconds per use of the highest Jugg parses.
Add in the increased crit, and we are looking at a much more stable, stronger spec. Assuming, of course, that we still get the Rage refund on the revamped Rampage proc. Any thought of removing that proc will completely gut the spec.
*Disclaimer: My math may be slightly off, meaning +- 3 seconds on the effective CD of Ravage.
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Hydraulic - 2936.8 - 4/36/6 Vigilance Guardian
http://www.torparse.com/a/367275/time/1375516960/1375517280/0/Overview
Replaces Lift on the list.
Edited because links help.
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- Sweeping Slash should be cheaper and should hit all enemies in a 360 damage arc instead of a frontal cleave.
So a zero cooldown, weapon damage Smash with no 5-target cap?
- Sweeping Slash should be cheaper and should hit all enemies in a 360 damage arc instead of a frontal cleave.
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The trick is on Ravage's last tick, my friend. I'll tell you if you haven't figured it out on your next post.
Ignore the PM I sent you... I see it, and I'd gotten away from doing it. With lag killing the last tick without any help from me, I didn't want to push it, but I'm having no issues with the Guardian on it, so I'm working on getting the timing down.
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Why does nobody take the Quake Talent?!? Its such a useful utility! http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GMZcGMRrhddhGRZb. Is what i will run when i hit 55 on my Jugg or Guardian (whichever i feel like getting to 55 first)
I assume this must be a PvP spec, because it is horrible for PvE (and really doesn't look that good for PvP, either, though I'm far from the expert in that regard).
This looks like a great spec. I'll use it when I get around to pve.Heh, you know me by now. If it's not specified, I default to PvE.
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Getting a better feel for the Guardian's animations/procs/etc.
Hydraulic - 2966 - 4/36/6 Vigilance
Edit: I just looked at your parse closer Loufucai... How the hell are you pulling 37 APM? I don't reel like I'm bad with lag, and I'm certainly solid on ability selection, but I just can't reach even 36 consistently.
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Select Few's were PDT time zone.
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I'm glad you've commented on how alacrity boost is redundant...even for you. Would you consider approaching some of the other ideas, I'd like to read what you say.
I apologize in advance for any... rambling or unclear thoughts. I'm not quite on top of things right now given some personal events that have taken place over the last 24 hours.
I'm still getting caught up on the conversation... It really should go without saying that any changes with DPS need to start with an examination of Enraged Defense. With PTs getting their threat dump, there is no reason for ours to remain this rediculous mashup of want-to-be defensive cooldown, rage eater, and threat dump. Don't get me wrong, the Veng version is amazing, hampered only by the Rage cost. The problem for PvE, is you have to hold it for the defensive cooldown. if you have to use it as a threat dump you are essentially wasting its defensive advantages.
Split the ability apart and give us PvE Juggs that still pull threat on occasion a reasonable threat dump and redesign the other half of the ability to provide a good defensive cooldown for DPS Juggs (while finding a way to not give Immortal yet another great tool). How to achieve that, I don't rightly know at this juncture.
2.0+ Nightmare Raid Parse rank sheet
in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Posted · Edited by ssfish
8m Titan 6
Bijje - Sniper - Marksman - 36/8/2 - 2684
Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/380560/6/0/Damage+Dealt
Edit: KD Relic and belt; all else 72s.