L2P doesn't negate practically all forms of melee still being able to crit sorcs for 4-6k through 1300+ expertise in full WH.... 2 rage juggs, or a sin/jugg, or <insert random 2 melee combo here>, and you're dead in 2 globals.... L2P Sorc? *****es, please.... L2Dev, BW Devs.

BW devs are warriors from WoW who got their **** pushed in by mages all the time... Nuff said.

For the FOTM mara/sent/jugg/guardians out there that just literally blow the big red rocket when it comes to that class, your arguement is invalid. Given your previous comments, I can safely assume that you fall into said category... I'm surprised there's not more "QQ sorcs are still OP! Buff mara/sent/jugg/guardians more!" threads floating around, as there's so many terrible players who think all the aforementioned ACs are is a simple faceroll across their keyboards, and things in their path just melt with "ZOMGOVER9000" white and yellow numbers flashing all over their screen. For the actual skilled members of the aforementioned ACs, once again, your arguement is invalid. There are many ways to close those gaps and counter CCs/stun/root/etc. Combine that with their newly-found lolburst capabilities in 1.2, and there's no plausible way that any smart and sane person would be able to credibly argue that sorcs shouldn't be touched as far as overall damage output and survivability in PvP situations. There is no doubt about the following statement: Sorcerer DPS in PvP situations is by far, the weakest and most broken of any AC in SWTOR at this moment in time. The fact that the vast majority of sorcs have to hybrid spec in order to find some kind of balance between doing mediocre damage and mediocre survivability renders the demand for investigation and overhaul by BW devs. The removal of crafted adrenals and revamping PvP relics is missing the mark, imo. Aside from BW publishing data that shows 50% or more of the PvP population has Biochem as their crafting skill, I don't really see the justification in this move by BW. Yes, it's a serious burst if you have that advantage. However, it would be more advantageous to actually increase the effectiveness of overall defenses, defensive CDs, and (brace yourselves) maybe, just maybe, provide sorcs with a defensive CD of our own (ZOMGWTFBBQGTFO, I'm crazy for saying such a thing, amirite?). Either that, or actually put some power into the sorcerer's damage output. Let's be honest here. Sorc dots (Affliction, Crushing Darkness, and Creeping Terror, if you're actually specced 31 point Madness)... you really think those are good where they're at right now? Other non-sorc players laugh at them. Even the previous poster said that "They just tickle". There's your sign that something's wrong, BW... Additionally, Madness hybrids, or even 31 point madness specs run a force defecit in any general combat situation, whether it's PvE or PvP. 2 minutes into a heated non-stop battle on a WZ, and you're OOF. What are my options then? Well, either I'm taken out of a fight for 30+ seconds, so I can go hide behind a pillar, wait for combat status to drop, and Seethe... or I just kamikaze myself into an oncoming rush of enemy players, die, and wait for respawn gates to clear.... Troopers/Bounty Hunters can vent heat in the middle of a fight with no consequences... Smugglers/Agents can replenish energy with probes, with no consequences... Warriors/Knights generate their own threat... inquisitors/consulars get Consumption, which costs 11-15% of your maximum HP (depending on your spec, but chances are that if you're DPS specced, you're not specced into your healing tree) for a measly amount of force regen... oh, and you screw yourself on your overall force regen temporarily... really? That's fair? In conclusion, rather than putting in acutal work, and correcting the design flaws that are within the sorcerer class, BW devs are attempting to merely put a band-aid over the proverbial gushing wound by negating burst capabilities of a small percentage of players. Furthermore, arguements that Sorcs are fine and don't need to be changed is folly. I'm not looking to be OP like all the FOTM maras/sents/juggs/guardians. I'm looking to be a competitive AC, one that would actually be considered for an 8-man premade when Ranked WZs come around. I can compete quite well, despite the disadvantages this AC has, but when Ranked WZs come out, even with the advanced skills I have with this class, I will become a focal point in all offensive strategies, and a liability to my team. BW, although they won't anytime soon, needs to get off their lazy duffs, and seriously investigate the overall state of sorcerer DPS specs and design. /endrant

BW devs were warriors in WoW who got their **** pushed in by mages. Nuff said.

/threadbump

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201Zf0RrbMbZcrfRsMk.1 Step 1: Respec as listed above. Step 2: Call a sent/mara's mother a fat cow. Step 3: lol @ said sent/mara as you destroy him. Nuff said.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201Zf0RrbMbZcrfRsMk.1 This is the "lolwutmelee?" Madness/Lightning hybrid spec I prefer in PvP. On my server, it's not uncommon to see 2-3 melee classes attempt to gang up on players. This spec practically makes you a walking melee booby trap. 3 second flash-bang as soon as Static Barrier is broken (make sure to /lol @ all maras and sents who open on you with ravage as you scamper away), 5 second root with Overload, insta-cast Whirlwind, and for those pesky healers, increased lockouts on spells interrupted with Jolt. While you won't win any top DPS honors with this spec, the design around utility maximizes your ability to survive against a melee class player, or multiple melee class players, if you're somewhat skilled with sorcerer. Just remember that pillars, objects and distance are your friends, and you'll be just fine.

^ This. Personally, I'm running a 0/18/23 hybrid spec for PvP. I have my 20% SB buff, I have my Overload root, I have CD reduction on WW and increased lockout time on Jolt, I have my SB flash-bang, I have a CC reduction on Electrocute, and I have WW reduced to an insta-cast. However, with all that CC and utility for survival, overall damage output is significantly reduced. If I have a 400k damage game in a WZ, it's a damn good game for me... which imo, is sad.

What cheeses me off about this, is that typical server maintenance is performed during Monday night/Tuesday morning. Why the wait for a day? Why no announcement of patch plans prior to maintenance so we could, oh, I don't know.... hold off on completing said weekly quests, to obtain the full rewards that we would have otherwise obtained if Bioware had simply done their jobs, and performed maintenance on their regularly scheduled basis? I guess that's too much to ask... way to earn your paychecks, BW... Oh, wait... that's right. You let go 40% of your staff... never mind. Guess you aren't earning your paychecks after all.

So, with the new patch, the PvP weekly now gives 300 of each commendation. The problem: I completed my weekly yesterday.... Thanks Bioware. **** you too...

Bump Also started a thread similar to this: "CROSS-SERVER PVP QUES... NOW BIOWARE...". Feel free to keep that thread bumped on the front page as well. We'll eventually get their attention!

Keep Bumpin', my friends!

Keep bumping. BW needs moar feedback.

I know that feeling all too well...

Keep it going, people!

Grats on getting queues in the most populated server in the game, brah.... must be hard, I'm sure.

Krayiss Obelisk has not had a single warzone match today.... 6 hours in a 50s queue, and not a single call for a warzone. Is D3 a major reason for this? It shouldn't be, but it is. If D3 has become that much of a reason as to completely halt facets of gameplay on a server (or servers), then it needs to be looked at with a sense of urgency. Bioware Development Team, I'm directly calling you out with this thread. You are not listening to your clientele when it comes to solutions that will enrich gameplay, and keep those who are otherwise dropping their subscriptions to go play other MMOs, to stay and enjoy what you have to offer within this game. Cross-server PvP queues are one of those solutions, and it needed to be implemented with 1.2. Put your development minds together,and make it happen with the next patch. My challenge to the subbers: I encourage everyone who wants Bioware to make the above requested change by the next patch, to bump this thread. Will it become flagged? Probably. Will it be removed? Likely. Will it be noticed? Definitely. Make it happen.

^ this. Vs. Rage or Vengeance Jugg/Guardian, you're straight-up boned in the ***. 4 second immunity to CC's and interrupts after a charge immediately puts you in a 4-7k health defecit, depending on your expertise rating. Only option you can do is slow and sprint. But oh, wait... you get force choked. Then force pushed, followed up with another charge, and another 4 seconds of CC and interrupt immunity. If you didn't blow your overload somewhere in there, you might be able to get away with only another 4-5k scrape, but by then, you're practically within execute health levels. Even as a Madness sorc playing 14/27, specializing in CC and survivability, you have virtually no chance of taking on a jugg or guardian, unless there's a lot of LoS barriers around you, and you kite them to hell. With marauders/sentinels, it's not as direct, but just as rediculous. You can shrug off their initial burst attack with CC's, as they don't have the CC immunity abilities that Juggs/Guardians have when they charge. So an electrocute, overload or insta-cast whirlwind (for those specced into it), and you can scamper away without much damage done. However, when your CC's run out, and they're up close and personal with you, even if you have a 6-8k health advantage on them, and they're on the verge of death... when they pop their defensive CDs, it's over. A sorcerer cannot outburst a marauder at low health with their defensive CDs up. That's not an opinion, that's just plain, in-your-face fact. All you can do is run and hope you don't die while you attempt to outlast their CD. Assassins/Shadows are a coin flip based on their specs, from my own personal experiences. More defensive-specced assassins are just built to last. You go in with a health defecit to begin with, their overall attacks are not that diminished from full DPS specced assassins, and their defensive CDs make for a painfully long "Dot and Kite" fight. In conclusion, Sorcerers do suffer greatly in PvP from a lack of survivability when it comes to melee classes. Either melee classes got too much of a buff to their abilities in 1.2, or sorcerers just got the shaft. Take your pick. Either way, I would think that Bioware could solve a lot of the Sorcerer's problems by doing two very small things: 1) Increase Static Barrier absorption amount significantly ( >=30%, or more). This would solve some of the issues regarding survivability against melee classes. Armor doesn't need to be changed. Health pools don't need to be changed. Just increase our bubble strength. 2) Increase periodic damage on Crushing Darkness & Affliction. Let's face it, an ability that does equivocal damage over 18 seconds in comparison to most basic melee attacks, which only take one GCD, is absurd. The bite in a sorcerer's attacks needs to be put back. The way melee classes are hitting, I wouldn't think it to be unfair if CD and Aff damage was even doubled over their allotted time, to level the playing field against a hard-hitting melee who can burst with 3-5k crits. If BW wanted to emulate a WoW lock, this is not how it's done. Buff Sorcerers. /endrant

Quinn > Vette, all day long while levelling. Gear him up, put him on Med Watch, and go kick elite face in. Haters gonna hate, but I'm pretty sure haters scraped themselves off the ground a hell of a lot more often while leveling, trying to pewpew through things that take a little more tact than just "firin' mah lazorz".

The 20% damage reduction ability is called Unstoppable (3rd tier in Vengeance).

Another thing I noticed... regarding Huddle, it looks like the tooltip is incorrect, and should say Force Charge instead of Intercede (Note the Sith's counterpart, the Jedi Guardian for cross-reference).

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMG0uZhGrMMhzdMM.1 This (If I inserted the link correctly).

I'm one of those who's using the 14/27/0 build (or mapping my way to it, only 46 atm). From what I've seen in previous posts, guides, and what's there in the talent trees, I can't help but wonder whether or not BW actually figured out definitively before release date whether or not Vengeance was going to be a DPS or a tanking talent tree... there's too many good-quality tanking abilities, too high up in that tree to say that they weren't messing with it as a possible 2nd tanking tree (i.e. Deafening Defense, Huddle, Ruin)... I'll have to respec once I hit 50 to a full 31 point Immortal spec and play around with it... but initially, I will probably stick with the 14/27/0 spec.