That's the thing, if it's not a big deal for us why is it big enough of a deal for the company to charge us? I'm just really really curious.

As I understand it Diablo 3 isn't an MMO; and if you think Guild Wars 1 is an MMO you probably haven't played it.

I'm really not trying to flame here, just really curious; anyway I'll condense my earlier query: Why - and how - can Guild Wars 2 go without a subscription fee?

(I posted this on page 5 and I'm posting it - verbatim - again.) I've asked this question quite a few times but I've never really got a satisfactory reply. Almost everyone here has heard about how GW2 will be The MMO killer; it's like so many people are saying GW2 is as good as SWTOR, only without a subscription. So my question is, objectively speaking (i.e. leave out stuff like 'just because you like the game' kind of replies), what are we getting from our subscription fees in games like SWTOR or WoW that a game like GW2 won't have? If the main difference is that GW2 uses a cash shop instead of a subscription, i.e. GW2 believes that, on average, their cash shop generates $15 per player per month, then I personally think that's a great alternative to a subscription (that's a whole other discussion). EDIT: because it seems that the premise behind $15 per month is that it's needed to support the game (if this premise is false, and if GW2 is as legit as SWTOR/WoW as an MMO, then the $15 per month that we pay would seem like it's just because we enjoy the game; not to mention that a subscription acts like a barrier to entry/filtration system, if you know what I mean) Disclaimer: I've never played any form of GW2 so I don't know what it's like; I did play GW1 but it felt more like battle.net than an MMO if you know what I mean. I'm also still playing SWTOR and WoW.

I think expansions are cheaper, no? EDIT: plus games like WoW have expansions too, not sure about SWTOR...

um, I'd just like to say that having more players in an MMO is generally a good thing. Just compare light and full servers, I'd always prefer to play on a full server (<5min wait).

I've asked this question quite a few times but I've never really got a satisfactory reply. Almost everyone here has heard about how GW2 will be The MMO killer; it's like so many people are saying GW2 is as good as SWTOR, only without a subscription. So my question is, objectively speaking (i.e. leave out stuff like 'just because you like the game' kind of replies), what are we getting from our subscription fees in games like SWTOR or WoW that a game like GW2 won't have? If the main difference is that GW2 uses a cash shop instead of a subscription, i.e. GW2 believes that, on average, their cash shop generates $15 per player per month, then I personally think that's a great alternative to a subscription (that's a whole other discussion). EDIT: because it seems that the premise behind $15 per month is that it's needed to support the game (if this premise is false, and if GW2 is as legit as SWTOR/WoW as an MMO, then the $15 per month that we pay would seem like it's just because we enjoy the game; not to mention that a subscription acts like a barrier to entry/filtration system, if you know what I mean) Disclaimer: I've never played any form of GW2 so I don't know what it's like; I did play GW1 but it felt more like battle.net than an MMO if you know what I mean. I'm also still playing SWTOR and WoW.

WoW can learn from SWTOR; SWTOR can learn from WoW. Sadly though, the typical response is "I don't wanna play a wow clone".

I believe players are mature enough to know certain things aren't balanced for 1v1. It was the case in WoW where certain classes had a perpetual advantage in duelling, but people sucked it up. I think we're all able to take a big-picture approach to pvp balancing and we'll realise that it's fairly balanced in the end, even if it may seem certain classes have an advantage in 1v1, or even if there's a certain rock, paper, scissors balancing act going on.

Yeah, I feel really short-changed when they changed Ilum... I never even got a chance to get the easy valor and now I take so much longer to gain valor compared to those who got the easy valor in Ilum, that's what I find unfair.

Thanks for the replies guys, at least now I have the numbers to work with. EDIT: zomg 260k valor at 2000 valor per warzone (4 medals) means 130 games.

The reason why I felt pve gear has traditionally been better was because it took more coordination and organisation to get a successful raid going; compare this to pvp where all that is required is to click queue. Taking a WoW example, you can have 40 players on Alterac Valley (a 40v40 player warzone) and 40 players in Molten Core (a 40 player raid) but the 40 players in AV need not necessarily actually work together to the extent that is required by the 40 players in Molten Core for them to succeed. Look at warzones in SWTOR and you realise that most of the time many players aren't really paying any attention at all, at least not to the big picture; you couldn't afford that many people not paying attention in pve. It is an MMO after all (multi-player game), so this is not to say that being REALLY good at pvp is worthless, just that more teamwork is emphasised in pve on average. So, in that sense I think expertise isn't really necessary, but they got to find ways to replace it with pve stats. In WoW, before they implemented resilience (WoW's form of expertise), the conventional pvp stat was crit. So, I don't know, maybe more crit/surge for pvp'ers and more power for pve'ers? EDIT: So what I mean is you can still get gear from pvp'ing, just without expertise.

Whole point of pvp-gear is to attract players who don't want to have to pve for gear.

I welcome the addition of legacy, but to me it just seems like the focus is on alts. I would much prefer more general quality of life improvements and content.

That's the thing. If an MMO can retain all game elements while being F2P that would be great (i.e. where the cash shop offers no real combat advantage).

I would settle for non-unique music if they would even have some loop-able background music to begin with, e.g. typical fantasy forest setting - Elwynn forest theme from WoW.

Planets have music? EDIT: ^this.

*** are you trying to say? That I'm not supposed to hit people who stun me but instead let them stun me and kill me?

Just to try persuade people who are against it, here are some things I can say in favour of a duel area on the fleet, based on my previous experience from duelling at the Gates of Ironforge in WoW: 1) It allows bored players and players who are waiting for their WZ or FP a chance to do something combat-related; 2) It becomes a gathering point for many players who might otherwise be scattered around th fleet; this helps build a sense of community, which I shall elaborate in point 3 below; 3) When you have a duelling area, players get to know each other in greater depth - this does also happen in warzones but because of the random-draw nature of warzones it takes longer; 4) Most importantly, it allows players the opportunity to hone their pvp and duelling skills against other players, and in the process learn the intricacies of their class in terms of duelling; because WZ pvp has been really nothing more than a stunfest.

What annoys me is the fact that almost EVERYONE opens the fight with a stun in SWTOR; stuns are used really indiscriminately to the point where no one bothers timing their stuns anymore - it's almost like stun whenever it cooldowns. You would know what I mean if you like doing 1v1 duels - that's where you learn when to stun.

Sith Inquisitor looks like a swamp monster.

How much valor do I need to get from valor level 59 to valor level 65? It would be nice if you tell me the number of warzones I'd have to do. Thank you. (I just want that valor level 65 car)

That they continue to make this game attractive for new players by introducing lots of new leveling content; but at the same time continue to preserve the worth of level 50s by not making leveling overly simplified. I think that's the most important aspect of an MMO - to have a consistent inflow of new players; without it, we'd end up with dead zones, which really takes away that MMO feeling.

Yeah I'd like to know too. It seems that their standard practice is to inform us during their weekly maintenance reminder as to whether the maintenance involves a patch or not; so I'm hoping they'll indicate patch 1.2 at least a day or two before maintenance, during their usual pre-maintenance reminder. EDIT: after seeing the pre-maintenance reminder for the maintenance on April 3rd, I can't really tell if there's going to be a patch or not.

I'm not sure about 1.2 but as it stands now it really doesn't seem that the operations in SWTOR (hard-modes at least, I've never done nightmare) require anything close to maxed gear.