This spec exists on live and is mediocre due to low damage and no force management. The proposed Darkness changss will probably be higher up in the tree. This spec doesn't work on live and received no buffs in 2.0 so it will be seriously outperformed.

well this thread was derailed on the first page by dumb people but on the bright side I have a funny quote in my signature now. whole point was to keep it bumped and draw attention to the pts thread so win win i guess though

given that I one of the very few players who is making eloquent and substantive examples to back up my reasoning and arguments, I would hope quite a few people give a "****" about what I have to say. Meanwhile, you pollute every thread you post in with incessant flaming and a never ending spurt of illogical fallacies. for those of you actually making intelligent posts in this tread, I urge you to redirect your attention to the linked topic in the OP, as Bioware is much more responsive in the PTS subforum.

then read and respond to this thread...The changes currently on the 2.0 PTS have completely and utterly destroyed assassin's viability for anything other than node guarding. Help improve the state of this games' pvp and keep this thread on the first page so it catches the attention of the devs http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602845

then read and respond to this thread...The changes currently on the 2.0 PTS have completely and utterly destroyed assassin's viability for anything other than node guarding. Help improve the state of this games' pvp and keep this thread on the first page so it catches the attention of the devs http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602845

then read and respond to this thread...The changes currently on the 2.0 PTS have completely and utterly destroyed assassin's viability for anything other than node guarding. Help improve the state of this games' pvp and keep this thread on the first page so it catches the attention of the devs http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602845

then read and respond to this thread...The changes currently on the 2.0 PTS have completely and utterly destroyed assassin's viability for anything other than node guarding. Help improve the state of this games' pvp and keep this thread on the first page so it catches the attention of the devs http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5906200#post5906200

ok, here's the essay I promised. Please for the love of god keep this bumped so it gets the attention of the devs http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5906200#post5906200 p.s. 50k views thanks for the support everyone

not gonna lie I was fairly uninterested and wasn't gonna apply but you really drew my attention here: this is really impressive, I'm sold. Whisper me ingame on Gudarzz or Gudrazz and hopefully we can work something out.

aaand now I'm trying Wakajinn again its working roughly similar to full deception I guess....You don't get Discharge as much but you don't need to rely on crappy VS for everything so that's good meh

thank god they're changing the tree that doesn't need changes just gimme until saturday to make a thread...Will be very in-depth.

I've already tried all of them and have commented on them in this thread or my guide. You can find the more thorough responses by going down a page or two or checking recent posts in my guide. a very tl;dr: they all suck. Only full Darkness is in a really "good" spot for DPS. That's because it is basically unchanged (Overcharge Saber DR is really good). I still wouldn't use it for DPSing in rateds by a long shot though. Full Deception is your best bet for non-Darkness DPS specs. That said, it's still pretty awful, just goes to show how bad your listed hybrids are. No fault of your own per say, a fault of the horribly designed tree. I will be making a big post in the PTS subforum this weekend. I don't have the time to write a ton until then and I still wanna keep trying these other specs just to make sure I'm not missing something.

lacerate is tied with power shot for worst ability in the game the fact that some of our highest tier abilities give it useless buffs while marauders get free executes on anyone and gore resets is lol

k so did some more thorough testing today.... full madness is just not going to happen without maul, deathmark force regen or the bonus melee damage....its like bioware expects it to just tab dot and use crushing darkness whenever you can as if we were sorcs....so sorcs completely outclass this even more than they already do on live that mad maul thing isn't going to work because there's no force regen. that's the main problem, discharge dots crit for like 1k which is amazing but you never have the force to use shock which is a huge deal and even using a shockless (which would be dumb) rotation is still too force-starved wakajinn just doesn't proc static charges enough While I still think it's bad, full deception seems to be the best bet for non-darkness DPS specs. 5/36/5 or 7/36/3 are probably the best. @darkscythe I think the 3% melee crit is way more important than some more Static Charge damage, especially since we are doubly reliant on Maul than before.

4 dps snipers 4 dps sorcs

with my BiS 63 gear from live at level 55 1 stack of discharge hits for around 630. Aka half the damage of Saber Strike. 2 stacks is less damage than Shock or Thrash. Therefore it is useless without 3 stacks. And to anyone who thinks VS is fine...VS shock damage nerf is not compensated by the guranteed Surging Charge proc as if it crits/chain shocks it still does less damage. (Chain Shock doesn't proc a second Static Charge btw)

that's a mistake Thing is, even if you believe a 2nd maul balances out the nonexistence of front loaded surging discharge.....Every other DPS spec has gotten a boatload of amazing talents and lost almost nothing... The problem with Deception isn't that it was horribly nerfed, the problem is that now it seems like it will be severely outclassed. i.e. if these deception changes were put on live right now and everything else was the same it would be okay....but given what other classes have gotten....not so much of course can't say for sure yet till wz bug is fixed but ya

huttball is already basically a contest to see which person at mid (usually the assassin) can get the ball first. phase walk just exacerbates the issue

full madness is now completely useless. no maul or bonus melee damage makes it entirely inferior to sorcs.

So on a brief second test, Wakajinn (go high enough up for second Maul rate limit) and the usual stuff in Madness should still work. In theory you're technically replacing immediate Surging Discharge Discharge for an on-demand maul proc. I still hate the Surging changes and consider it a nerf but I was probably overreacting when I called it unsalvagable. I still think full deception is godawful That said, I still consider it a pretty sizable nerf and compared to the amazing stuff other dps classes have gotten (lightning sorcs and all snipers are just out of control now) I still think we're in a pretty bad spot

p.s. only thing you lose out on over full deception is maul proc on low slash/spike on a seperate rate limit. If this proc was something like a better crit chance I'd like it but meh. Though Maul is our hardest hitting ability it can be very difficult to pull off in serious rwzs consistently. If I could keep the proc in addition to death field/a good discharge I would. But I don't think it's worth losing out on Death Field for another Maul and the useless Surging Discharge. Consider Raze a bonus. Ok I sleep now

k couldn't go sleep before I figured something out 0/29/17 is currently my favorite dps build. It's basically Mad Maul / Wakajinn 2.0.....You get Low Slash, bonus crit damage on Shock/Discharge, Entropic Field DR and big maul damage....So that's the awesome stuff you get from current live builds. Meanwhile in Madness you get Lightning Discharge (yes you run Lightning Charge) and spec into Raze, which is the only real difference from the current Wakakjinn build. My thought process is this: Surging Discharge is pretty much the worst thing in the game right now....Instant cast Crushing Darkness basically replaces it with similar damage on a lower cooldown. Thanks to the surge bonus on Lightning Discharge dots (thanks to Deception tree) and the fact that Maul/Shock still hit hard in this spec. Only real issue I can see is the force cost of Shock (I still wanna use it on CD) I can't test this in wzs too seriously due to the retarded take armor on/off and have 100k+ hp and mainstats. But I do think this spec may work since it more or less works the same as Wakajinn does on live. Here's hoping

I will be making a post on the PTS, probably sometime this weekend, if I can't find a solution here. If things aren't changed and I grow tired of my Sorc I will unsub when the patch goes live and go back to playing StarCraft. Currently thinking of possible changes and the like. Will be posting in pts forum soon.

It can be used while controlled, has a 1.5 channel to put the mark down (instant with a short delay to teleport back). If you use it when you have the Huttball it resets. So it's good for node guarding as you can sit halfway from the node if you need to reinforce or w\e. It also makes the threat of being sap capped by a enemy assassin a lot scarier. For DPS sins its a great escape that we apparently needed to be "on the same level" with current live-build marauders. But given how every assassin dps spec was gutted it doesn't make up for it. I'm still trying to work it out and salvage this but right now its horrid. Having a lot of fun on my retard OP lightning sorc atm tho.

day one analysis: every assassin spec sans full darkness nerfed horribly deception/any attempted version of wakajinn is nearly unplayable full darkness most usable, only because it was changed the least. wow surging discharge is useless lol let's compensate by also removing VS shock damage buff ya ok why not sorcs and gunslingers are godlike op