dumb.

what do you hope to gain from this thread like seriously, what was your thought process

Though I was initially hesitant about highlighting this-much less posting it on the official forums-I quickly realized that this is merely a PvP issue and as such, probably won't be fixed until Christmas 2014 or so. http://www.twitch.tv/wifileague/c/2724001 Denova: the final frontier. These are the voyages of Wakalord's expedition force. Its warzone-length mission: to explore strange new mountains, to seek out those ships on the water and new trees and ****, to boldly go where no bored PvPer has gone before.

Tried streaming today. Haven't done so for awhile. There was an issue with my stream key that I was unfortunately unable to resolve in time. Hope to start streaming again asap.

Round 2. Wakalord beat Kikstyo 2-0 in round 2. Gudarzz, Broxx, Murkin and a few others were witness.

Wakalord beat Hananiah 3-0 Broxx was witness.

Disagree. Using Crushing Darkness as Deception/Wakajinn is more than fine as long as you properly LoS/CC so it won't be interrupted. It's actually an integral part of the playstyle. Doesn't matter if it is cleansed, forcing a cleanse on it is worth it in of itself, moreso if a player afflicted with the dot uses Shroud/Evasion/other major defensive CD to cleanse/mitigate. The hefty force cost is plenty worth it.

I strongly disagree with both your healing and Lightning mobility issues. With regards to Lightning PvP: Lightning is not designed to be a mobile spec. It is an immobile glass cannon that requires your team to properly peel melee off of you. This does not need to be fixed by any means. On our Bastion server, this kind of peeling can be seeing with Don't Panic's Natrome (DPS commando). They do a fantastic job of peeling for him and he puts out an immense amount of damage. If we coordinate properly we apply serious pressure and force him to move around. Lightning sorcs work much the same, trading some slightly lower mobility for superior utility (pulls, better offheals, better AoE). Trying to give them the mobility of other classes is a very, very bad idea. Any survivability issues Lightning has is shared by the other two specs. While I do think that is a very real issue, it's a separate one and shouldn't be addressed by giving the class more mobility. Just because a class or spec has a weakness doesn't mean it needs to be fixed as long as it can be compensated for by the rest of your team.

It's impressive how badly you guys have derailed this thread. Go scream at each other somewhere else.

Sometimes a duelist will guard a spectator to get the 5% damage bonus from the PvP 4 piece set bonus.

I'll enter if you edit the rules to disallow the use of Intercede and Guard. If you do, toon is Wakalord, assassin.

I still use Wakajinn in most duels, but full specs are superior in pretty much every other situation.

unfortunately my own guild decided to focus on campaigning for a more or less fresh 55 scoundrel because they thought it would be funny but what you gonna do i guess Thanks to everyone who voted for me, I was flattered to get as many votes as I did :]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdy-zRJR97s Really what else needs to be said? Vote for Wakalord today: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=665188

You know you've really made it in the world when random people start assaulting your integrity over an MMO ^_^ That said, I started posting shortly before the system went public and I couldn't have "chimed in" to my friends since I only just now got home from work. That part comes when I stream in the evening!

thank god finally an answer to the rwz turtle strategy

I guess you could say the rated scene on the bastion has really hit rock bottom

I agree. Something similar for Civil too imo.

while normal people argue about the schlong sizes and cars, basement nerds argue about which server is better it's like a force of nature

but does it have jawagrams

Thanks for the translation! But no, it isn't Sorc/Sage only anymore. Torhead hasn't been updated properly to reflect this, if that's the calculator you use. Unearthed Knowledge was replaced with Lingering Nightmares.

(This thread will only cover the two assassin DPS specs. I plan on making a tank thread within the next few days but I felt it was extremely important to just type something up now because I've been thinking a lot about how to improve this class and just wanted to go public with my thoughts asap). Also, imperial terminology sorry my republic friends! Ok, since everyone else with any chance of being elected as sin/shadow class rep is doing this I will too. Most of the questions/issues that have been brought up in these kinds of threads are quite important and I would love to have answers to all of them. While it is not the representatives place to suggest actual changes, I feel like simply raising concerns is simply not doing enough. I have a fair amount of experience with both DPS and tanking and PvE but nothing on the bleeding edge hardcore level that serious raiders have. As such, if I am elected I plan on privately talking to some of the more prominent PvE-focused assassins in the community. With that said, I'd like to express some of my concerns related to the PvP aspect of sins/shadows. 1) Madness: Currently, what is the point? Madness assassins are arguably the worst PvP class in the game. Worse than the nerfed pyrotech, worse than concealment, worse than a marauder nodeguard. They're really, really bad. This is due to nonthreatening dots (lightning discharge is energy damage, while sniper/sorc dots are all internal), terrible procs (no more bonus melee damage, no maul at all...The only "big" move we have is crushing darkness and the method of proccing it is both more unsafe and less reliable than sorc's method). And of course, the damage is just atrocious. Madness sins had a problem of "what is our niche" pre-2.0. While they were arguably the single most damaging spec if left completely alone pre-2.0, that was both entirely unrealistic and doesn't even apply anymore. Respec utility aside, the only things madness sins have over sorcs are stealth, taunts and phase walk. Our methods of getting procs and our filler are both more risky and far less damaging. While both madness sins and sorcs have paper-thin defenses, sins have to get into melee range to do anything. Even a mediocre team is going to be able to focus you down to oblivion. Marginal self healing doesn't matter when three smashes and a fully-loaded cull are tearing you apart. So how could this be fixed? Madness sins are always going to be a hybrid of melee/ranged moves. And that's a pretty cool concept. But right now, our only reason for being in melee is to proc crushing darkness. Losing Unearthed Knowledge (fairly weak as it was) and any sort of Maul really destroyed the spec. Also, Shock has been rendered useless. We basically put some dots on the target and pray to god we get a Raze proc before dying. After we get it, we're pretty much useless for six seconds. And of course, *** Lambaste. Defensively, while 30% DR while stunned and 15% dot DR are obviously great, they aren't enough when you factor in the fact that you need to be in melee range to get your procs. Here are some ideas: 1) Rework the Lambaste talent to make Lacerate apply the Lightning Discharge dot to all affected targets. I really don't know what the thought process was, giving lacerate some utterly useless force damage on hit. Make it apply the Discharge dot to all affected targets, making it a melee version of the agent's corrosive grenade. 2) Bloodletting seems like a very lazily designed talent. Madness is about sustained damage, and giving us a marginal damage boost against sub-30% health targets is contradictory by design. We should be about constant, sustained pressure. Mediocre "burst" like this isn't necessary. I suggest this: Scrap Bloodletting and give us a talent that increases Force Lightning and Shock damage by 10/20/30% (the numbers are debatable) for each one of our DoTs on the target. This would give us the burst and pressure required to actually be viable in rated warzones. It would also necessitate smart play. Instead of just spamming dots on everything, setting up the three dots on a target would reward proper focusing play (especially given the short duration of Crushing Darkness...That said, this would make Lingerning Nightmares make sense over the old Unearthed Knowledge). WOW WAKA THIS WOULD MAKE MADNESS SIN OP SO MUCH BURST! Not really. Unlike an agent's cull, our Force Lightning could be interrupted (if this proves to make our Force Lightning useless then make it uninterruptible if we take this proposed talent..Probably lower the % damage increase to compensate though). Also, our Shock still costs a massive amount of force. Currently, it's almost impossible to use Shock more than once or twice without suffering force starvation. Therefore, we couldn't use spam Shock and Force Lightning on cooldown. It would necessitate smart play and knowing when to burst. Also, giving us a reason not to just spam Recklessness for more Death Field AoE damage would be great. All in all, this synergies with the theme of madness being a "master of the arcane force," as opposed to "HOLY FK I GOTTA DOT EVERYTHING IM GONNA USE THRASH NOW OK I GOT CRUSHING DARKNESS I GUESS ILL GET CCD AND DIE NOW" theme which is considerably less uh....Cool. 3) What about melee and madness sin defensive issues? To keep with the concept of "sustained, hybrid ranged/melee damage" this spec has going for it, actually wading into melee range should reward the player. As such, I suggest a two point talent that increases damage resistance by .5/1% every time you use a melee attack on a target affected by one of your dots. This stacks up to ten times (again, we're going with a theme of madness sins excelling in long sustained fights). The catch? It only lasts for five seconds. This means that you need to be constantly pressuring the opponent in melee range to maintain your stacks. It would also punish players trying to use the previously mentioned Shock/Force Lightning talents to play like a sorc with a more damaging proc (we're trying to differentiate the classes here, people). On the offensive side, make Lightning Burns proc off of melee attacks instead of your dot? I'm sure someone is gonna ask about why maul and assassinate weren't mentioned here. While it would be nice to have every ability be somewhat useful for every spec for every class, that would probably require a ToR 3.0-level rework of pretty much everything. Being realistic, I don't think not having a super duper cool maul/assassinate proc in madness is necessarily a bad thing. And I have cool ideas for those abilities in Deception (see below) I believe that if these changes were made, madness sins would become a significantly more useful, fun and rewarding class than what it currently is. 2) Deception: Putting the ASSASSIN back in assassinate I have been very vocal about the 2.0 "balance" changes for a variety of classes, but I probably yell about the deception changes the most. While I don't feel that deception was hit as hard as oher specs (it's downright godlike compared to the current madness sin/concealment op specs, for example) it requires a fair amount of fine tuning if it is going to be respected again by the community at large. While I'd still argue that sins have a great amount of utility (though very old this thread does a good job of explaining the utility I think DPS sins bring: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=582016&) That said, most people still prefer the raw power of Smash maras/sents to deception sin. While an issue of toning the Smash spec may be in order, that is not the intent or focus of this thread, so instead I'm going to talk about how to make deception "up to par" and fill its own niche as a viable role in rated warzones. So what issues do we face? When Recklessness is up our damage is on par with snipers and marauders. When it's not...Well, good luck hope the stars align and you get a Maul crit to even be on par with everything else! RNG is a crippling issue for assassins (low slash miss? There goes Impose Weakness, the only good [no I don't think the recklessness reset is good in rateds] offensive talent we have! Oh, you got it? Maul doesn't crit you do no damage anyways). The tree seems to be redesigned for ONLY doing upfront burst and then being useless. Concealment has the same issue (though admittedly its a much more severe issue for them) and as such is equally ignored in rated play. We need some sort of proc that puts us on a threat level on part with Carnage's Gore, Lethality's Cull, Smash...etc. Defensively, Phase Walk is fantastic, but the raw power increase that other classes/specs have acquired necessitate more in-combat survivability. Also, being forced to run away from a fight (causing you to do literally nothing for quite a few crucial seconds) is a major issue that either needs to be reworked or justified. So how could this be fixed? 1) Blackout is our most reliable defensive cooldown. Our Cloak of Pain, basically. Our Impose Weakness basically revolves around Low Slash because Spike is basically used once in a fight: aka useless to have a talent revolve around it for rateds (Nerve Wracking is also useless in PvE). I believe that moving Nerve Wracking back to the tank tree would greatly improve its viability in rateds since the utility can be nice. In its stead, give the seventh tier of deception this two point talent: "Reactivating Phase Walk has a 50/100% chance to put you back in stealth." This would refresh our blackout, but at the cost of Phase Walk. Smart play would be required to not blow all your major defensive cooldowns at the same time. It would allow us to use Spike and take full advantage of Impose Weakness. It would NOT remove us from combat (no recklessness reset), and could be somewhat countered by being afflicted with dots. I believe that this talent would give us the survivability we need to handle ourselves in PvP. 2) Offensively, I have several ideas, but they all revolve around one key concept: Giving us an Assassinate on a target of any HP%. Sith Executioner is bad. It's a boring and thoughtless damage boost for execute phases in PvE and just as unreliable as Madness' Bloodletting in PvP. You either kill the target or it is healed up to full in a split second, your useless 6% damage boost won't change a damn thing. Maybe rework the talent like this: "Using Discharge while in Surging Charge has a 50/100% chance to finish the cooldown of Assassinate and make the next Assassinate inflict trauma for 6 seconds, reducing all healing the target receives by 15/30% (or maybe 20/40%). This effect can only occur once every 10 (this number of course up for debate) seconds. In addition, increases your melee critical chance by 17.5/35% for 5 seconds after using Assassinate. Now, let's pick apart this theorycrafted talent. This gives assassin's a very supportive and useful niche in rated warzones. While the trauma duration is shorter than those of other classes, it is a much stronger debuff. This would necessitate proper focus targeting and communication. This is a good thing. Don't like the idea of assassins getting trauma? Here's another idea: "...make the next Assassinate ignore 25/50% (or 50/100%, whatever is balanced), of the opponents resistances." (note that that would include armor, actual resistances, buffs and the like), making this a truly unique proc and attack that could really make an impact. While a Marauder gets armor penetration from Gore, we get increased melee crit from Assassinate. Due to Maul's hefty power but lack of a cooldown and somewhat frequent uptime you'd have on this crit% buff, it wouldn't give you guaranteed crits. But it would give you enough to make your melee attacks actually threatening. The rotation would be rather similar to what you do in PvP after Gore (you force scream if you have a proc [you use maul if you have a proc] or you just spam massacre [spam voltaic slash]...And if you think you should use a Gore'd ravage you're wrong don't try to argue that). Note that the crit% buff lasts 5 seconds. Assassinate has a 6 second cooldown. You can't chain this proc on low target enemies without proper planning (assassinate, proc, assassinate). It finally gives us a serious reason to run full Deception over Wakajinn (proc is related to Surging Discharge, which is way better in full Deception). 3) Humbling Strike is basically 3 points for something useless. Either give Low Slash a chance to slow for X% after effect ends or increase the knockdown duration of Spike. But something needs to change, because it's currently far too niche and unrealistic to be of any use. I have thought of several other ideas, such as reverting Surging Discharge to pre-2.0, giving Voltaic Slash a cooldown and so on so fourth....But these ideas seem like complete overhauls as opposed to the more modest tweaks I am assuming we are supposed to present in this class rep system. These changes would give us the sustained pressure, possibility for burst and team utility we need to make deception sins once again a force to be reckoned with in rateds! So these are my ideas everything is work and progress and most of the numbers are of course up for debate. I plan on making a second/updated thread within the next few days covering my tank concerns/ideas but until then feel free to tear apart this thread unless you are dumb then please don't do that. Thanks for reading.

(This thread will only cover the two assassin DPS specs. I plan on making a tank thread within the next few days but I felt it was extremely important to just type something up now because I've been thinking a lot about how to improve this class and just wanted to go public with my thoughts asap). Ok, since everyone else with any chance of being elected as sin/shadow class rep is doing this I will too. Most of the questions/issues that have been brought up in these kinds of threads are quite important and I would love to have answers to all of them. While it is not the representatives place to suggest actual changes, I feel like simply raising concerns is simply not doing enough. I have a fair amount of experience with both DPS and tanking and PvE but nothing on the bleeding edge hardcore level that serious raiders have. As such, if I am elected I plan on privately talking to some of the more prominent PvE-focused assassins in the community. With that said, I'd like to express some of my concerns related to the PvP aspect of sins/shadows. 1) Madness: Currently, what is the point? Madness assassins are arguably the worst PvP class in the game. Worse than the nerfed pyrotech, worse than concealment, worse than a marauder nodeguard. They're really, really bad. This is due to nonthreatening dots (lightning discharge is energy damage, while sniper/sorc dots are all internal), terrible procs (no more bonus melee damage, no maul at all...The only "big" move we have is crushing darkness and the method of proccing it is both more unsafe and less reliable than sorc's method). And of course, the damage is just atrocious. Madness sins had a problem of "what is our niche" pre-2.0. While they were arguably the single most damaging spec if left completely alone pre-2.0, that was both entirely unrealistic and doesn't even apply anymore. Respec utility aside, the only things madness sins have over sorcs are stealth, taunts and phase walk. Our methods of getting procs and our filler are both more risky and far less damaging. While both madness sins and sorcs have paper-thin defenses, sins have to get into melee range to do anything. Even a mediocre team is going to be able to focus you down to oblivion. Marginal self healing doesn't matter when three smashes and a fully-loaded cull are tearing you apart. So how could this be fixed? Madness sins are always going to be a hybrid of melee/ranged moves. And that's a pretty cool concept. But right now, our only reason for being in melee is to proc crushing darkness. Losing Unearthed Knowledge (fairly weak as it was) and any sort of Maul really destroyed the spec. Also, Shock has been rendered useless. We basically put some dots on the target and pray to god we get a Raze proc before dying. After we get it, we're pretty much useless for six seconds. And of course, *** Lambaste. Defensively, while 30% DR while stunned and 15% dot DR are obviously great, they aren't enough when you factor in the fact that you need to be in melee range to get your procs. Here are some ideas: 1) Rework the Lambaste talent to make Lacerate apply the Lightning Discharge dot to all affected targets. I really don't know what the thought process was, giving lacerate some utterly useless force damage on hit. Make it apply the Discharge dot to all affected targets, making it a melee version of the agent's corrosive grenade. 2) Bloodletting seems like a very lazily designed talent. Madness is about sustained damage, and giving us a marginal damage boost against sub-30% health targets is contradictory by design. We should be about constant, sustained pressure. Mediocre "burst" like this isn't necessary. I suggest this: Scrap Bloodletting and give us a talent that increases Force Lightning and Shock damage by 10/20/30% (the numbers are debatable) for each one of our DoTs on the target. This would give us the burst and pressure required to actually be viable in rated warzones. It would also necessitate smart play. Instead of just spamming dots on everything, setting up the three dots on a target would reward proper focusing play (especially given the short duration of Crushing Darkness...That said, this would make Lingerning Nightmares make sense over the old Unearthed Knowledge). WOW WAKA THIS WOULD MAKE MADNESS SIN OP SO MUCH BURST! Not really. Unlike an agent's cull, our Force Lightning could be interrupted (if this proves to make our Force Lightning useless then make it uninterruptible if we take this proposed talent..Probably lower the % damage increase to compensate though). Also, our Shock still costs a massive amount of force. Currently, it's almost impossible to use Shock more than once or twice without suffering force starvation. Therefore, we couldn't use spam Shock and Force Lightning on cooldown. It would necessitate smart play and knowing when to burst. Also, giving us a reason not to just spam Recklessness for more Death Field AoE damage would be great. All in all, this synergies with the theme of madness being a "master of the arcane force," as opposed to "HOLY FK I GOTTA DOT EVERYTHING IM GONNA USE THRASH NOW OK I GOT CRUSHING DARKNESS I GUESS ILL GET CCD AND DIE NOW" theme which is considerably less uh....Cool. 3) What about melee and madness sin defensive issues? To keep with the concept of "sustained, hybrid ranged/melee damage" this spec has going for it, actually wading into melee range should reward the player. As such, I suggest a two point talent that increases damage resistance by .5/1% every time you use a melee attack on a target affected by one of your dots. This stacks up to ten times (again, we're going with a theme of madness sins excelling in long sustained fights). The catch? It only lasts for five seconds. This means that you need to be constantly pressuring the opponent in melee range to maintain your stacks. It would also punish players trying to use the previously mentioned Shock/Force Lightning talents to play like a sorc with a more damaging proc (we're trying to differentiate the classes here, people). On the offensive side, make Lightning Burns proc off of melee attacks instead of your dot? I'm sure someone is gonna ask about why maul and assassinate weren't mentioned here. While it would be nice to have every ability be somewhat useful for every spec for every class, that would probably require a ToR 3.0-level rework of pretty much everything. Being realistic, I don't think not having a super duper cool maul/assassinate proc in madness is necessarily a bad thing. And I have cool ideas for those abilities in Deception (see below) I believe that if these changes were made, madness sins would become a significantly more useful, fun and rewarding class than what it currently is. 2) Deception: Putting the ASSASSIN back in assassinate I have been very vocal about the 2.0 "balance" changes for a variety of classes, but I probably yell about the deception changes the most. While I don't feel that deception was hit as hard as oher specs (it's downright godlike compared to the current madness sin/concealment op specs, for example) it requires a fair amount of fine tuning if it is going to be respected again by the community at large. While I'd still argue that sins have a great amount of utility (though very old this thread does a good job of explaining the utility I think DPS sins bring: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=582016&) That said, most people still prefer the raw power of Smash maras/sents to deception sin. While an issue of toning the Smash spec may be in order, that is not the intent or focus of this thread, so instead I'm going to talk about how to make deception "up to par" and fill its own niche as a viable role in rated warzones. So what issues do we face? When Recklessness is up our damage is on par with snipers and marauders. When it's not...Well, good luck hope the stars align and you get a Maul crit to even be on par with everything else! RNG is a crippling issue for assassins (low slash miss? There goes Impose Weakness, the only good [no I don't think the recklessness reset is good in rateds] offensive talent we have! Oh, you got it? Maul doesn't crit you do no damage anyways). The tree seems to be redesigned for ONLY doing upfront burst and then being useless. Concealment has the same issue (though admittedly its a much more severe issue for them) and as such is equally ignored in rated play. We need some sort of proc that puts us on a threat level on part with Carnage's Gore, Lethality's Cull, Smash...etc. Defensively, Phase Walk is fantastic, but the raw power increase that other classes/specs have acquired necessitate more in-combat survivability. Also, being forced to run away from a fight (causing you to do literally nothing for quite a few crucial seconds) is a major issue that either needs to be reworked or justified. So how could this be fixed? 1) Blackout is our most reliable defensive cooldown. Our Cloak of Pain, basically. Our Impose Weakness basically revolves around Low Slash because Spike is basically used once in a fight: aka useless to have a talent revolve around it for rateds (Nerve Wracking is also useless in PvE). I believe that moving Nerve Wracking back to the tank tree would greatly improve its viability in rateds since the utility can be nice. In its stead, give the seventh tier of deception this two point talent: "Reactivating Phase Walk has a 50/100% chance to put you back in stealth." This would refresh our blackout, but at the cost of Phase Walk. Smart play would be required to not blow all your major defensive cooldowns at the same time. It would allow us to use Spike and take full advantage of Impose Weakness. It would NOT remove us from combat (no recklessness reset), and could be somewhat countered by being afflicted with dots. I believe that this talent would give us the survivability we need to handle ourselves in PvP. 2) Offensively, I have several ideas, but they all revolve around one key concept: Giving us an Assassinate on a target of any HP%. Sith Executioner is bad. It's a boring and thoughtless damage boost for execute phases in PvE and just as unreliable as Madness' Bloodletting in PvP. You either kill the target or it is healed up to full in a split second, your useless 6% damage boost won't change a damn thing. Maybe rework the talent like this: "Using Discharge while in Surging Charge has a 50/100% chance to finish the cooldown of Assassinate and make the next Assassinate inflict trauma for 6 seconds, reducing all healing the target receives by 15/30% (or maybe 20/40%). This effect can only occur once every 10 (this number of course up for debate) seconds. In addition, increases your melee critical chance by 17.5/35% for 5 seconds after using Assassinate. Now, let's pick apart this theorycrafted talent. This gives assassin's a very supportive and useful niche in rated warzones. While the trauma duration is shorter than those of other classes, it is a much stronger debuff. This would necessitate proper focus targeting and communication. This is a good thing. Don't like the idea of assassins getting trauma? Here's another idea: "...make the next Assassinate ignore 25/50% (or 50/100%, whatever is balanced), of the opponents resistances." (note that that would include armor, actual resistances, buffs and the like), making this a truly unique proc and attack that could really make an impact. While a Marauder gets armor penetration from Gore, we get increased melee crit from Assassinate. Due to Maul's hefty power but lack of a cooldown and somewhat frequent uptime you'd have on this crit% buff, it wouldn't give you guaranteed crits. But it would give you enough to make your melee attacks actually threatening. The rotation would be rather similar to what you do in PvP after Gore (you force scream if you have a proc [you use maul if you have a proc] or you just spam massacre [spam voltaic slash]...And if you think you should use a Gore'd ravage you're wrong don't try to argue that). Note that the crit% buff lasts 5 seconds. Assassinate has a 6 second cooldown. You can't chain this proc on low target enemies without proper planning (assassinate, proc, assassinate). It finally gives us a serious reason to run full Deception over Wakajinn (proc is related to Surging Discharge, which is way better in full Deception). 3) Humbling Strike is basically 3 points for something useless. Either give Low Slash a chance to slow for X% after effect ends or increase the knockdown duration of Spike. But something needs to change, because it's currently far too niche and unrealistic to be of any use. I have thought of several other ideas, such as reverting Surging Discharge to pre-2.0, giving Voltaic Slash a cooldown and so on so fourth....But these ideas seem like complete overhauls as opposed to the more modest tweaks I am assuming we are supposed to present in this class rep system. These changes would give us the sustained pressure, possibility for burst and team utility we need to make deception sins once again a force to be reckoned with in rateds! So these are my ideas everything is work and progress and most of the numbers are of course up for debate. I plan on making a second/updated thread within the next few days covering my tank concerns/ideas but until then feel free to tear apart this thread unless you are dumb then please don't do that. Thanks for reading.

While I have reasons to believe that this issue has been quietly acknowledged by the devs, bumping anyways due to lack of official response and the importance of the issue.

idk why I'm not here yet but http://www.twitch.tv/wifileague