steinsgate
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Posts posted by steinsgate
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Agree with your first point. We're GCD locked into an extremely clunky and immobile rotation.
Looks like you made this from a tank (immortal) spec perspective, but the vengeance tree has the same issues. See http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=107697 for a suggested fix of mine (revamping Rampage).
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No meters but as a 27 Jugg, I am always Top 5 dps. Just got to utilize abilities and learn what to use when procs go off. I am Vengeance specd at the moment I do just fine. Smash hits like a truck and is free and Force scream is powerful as well. Ravage for the idiots who stand still and they are pretty much dead after a basic rotation utilizing your finishers. I have soloed marauders higher levels than me. Maybe it is because I have a 2200+ Rogue and DK on Tichondrius
HERP DERP! BTW
The DPS Juggs I have seen at cap (50) pwn and are not squish at all.
Are you implying it's hard to break 2200 as a rogue?
I mean, it might take you a few minutes to find a mage and a priest who aren't asleep, but after that it's just repetition.
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Condescendence at its best. I'm not trying at all to "appear" to others if I'm good at the class or not lol. I don't have issues on my Sith Jugg and that's all that matters. The people that are having trouble have to be doing something wrong. Yes, the Devs did say during the beta phase that Sith Warriors are next in line for revamping / buffing doesn't mean the class is as horrible / useless as everyone is making it seem. Now, compared to other classes, no one knows with out parses / damage meters. Juggs burst may not be up to par with other classes, but as far as sustained damage over a long period of time (raid bosses, the only content that matters) no one knows. Tone down the condescending attitude. Talking down to others over constructive theory is for lames.
"With this class you have to know what your doing."
"If people want easier go roll a face roll class like Bounty Hunter and if people keep comparing to other classes, go roll another class."
Is this not condescending? Hm.
Our burst isn't on par with any class. Neither is our sustained. You don't need damage meters to tell that there is an imbalance, simply to know precisely how imbalanced it is.
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That talent does not allow you to move with with ravage. It just makes casted interrupts not interrupt it.
I'd rather see ravage completely gone and replaced with something to give us more utility. I'd also rather see the dots just completely gone from vengeance as there is absolutely no synergy with them. They literally feel just tacked on because the devs ran out of ideas.
Ah, I suppose I misinterpreted the talent, then. I assumed uninterruptable meant you could move while channeling. That's dumb, then. The ability is still absolutely useless in pvp unless you happen to have a group of people chain-stunning/immobilizing an enemy for three seconds. And, of course, in pve it's just awkward and clunky.
Yeah, in all honesty, I wouldn't shed a single tear if Ravage disappeared completely. And I agree with you about the dots, they seem like a pretty lazy way to make the abilities higher DPR than vicious assault. The one on Shatter is good, though, makes refreshing the dot right as the effect expires a more interesting decision.
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The problem with that is there is a talent in the rage tree that allows for movement while channeling Ravage. I'd rather let the Rage tree keep that as an iconic ability and make vicious throw the Vengeance tree's cool gimmick.
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And the problem is? Our class is more challenging then the rest. Your point? I haven't ran across a fight that I couldn't come out victorious with my Jugg. Sometimes I've come out very scarred up but all the content doable. Why do we have to be like the other classes? Where alot of people are struggling at is they just run into a fight. With this class you have to know what your doing. Setting up your rage builders right, managing rage and CDS effectively. I haven't had trouble with my Sith Jugg period. Is it as easy as my other classes? No. If people want easier go roll a face roll class like Bounty Hunter and if people keep comparing to other classes, go roll another class. Sith Jugg is fine.
"Setting up your rage builders?" Uh...you mean using saber throw > charge > sundering assault? Is there any more to it than that? You're trying too hard to have the appearance of someone who is good with a class before anyone else realizes it's good.
A valiant effort, but considering the devs have stated that juggernauts, and warriors, in general, are in line for buffs/reworking, I'd say your perception is an inaccurate, misrepresented or untruthful one.
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Bumping for discussion.
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Since when are games designed to be maximize a classes potential before max lv? If you find one let me know.
Who's asking for maximized? Just asking for power growth parity between classes.
Other classes start strong, have a strong mid-level and strong high-level. Warriors have a weak early game, mediocre mid-game, and decent late game.
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Are you aware of diminishing returns, or that in PvE it does not effect everyone? Or maybe that player had something on him that prevented your choke from working at that time?
I love these well thought out posts always ending with "plz fix"....
Are you aware that for every single ability we have that has differing effects between mob types and player types, there is a notice in the spell information which clearly states what different effects happen?
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Funny story about force choke, actually. You eventually, as part of the class quest, fight someone who uses force choke.
It doesn't work either, lol. He just channels. No damage, no stun. Just the channel.
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Redesign Rampage. Wall-o-text inc.
When I hit level 46, the absolute last thing on my mind was "Damn, you know what I could use? Another skill in my rotation." And then I got Vicious Throw. Yay!
On to the heart of the matter: Finishing the cooldown on Ravage sounds like a cool mechanic in theory. In practice, however, this is an incredibly clunky and awkward addition to the vengeance rotation. With all the abilities vengeance already has (Shatter, Assault, Sundering Assault, Impale, Force Scream, Vicious Throw, Ravage) that are a regular part of our rotation, inserting a 3 second (two GCD) channel into the mix just makes for unnecessary complication of an already complicated skill set.
What I propose is this: Let the Rage talent allowing movement while channeling Ravage to be that spec's flavor. Redesign Rampage to, instead, allow the use of Vicious Throw regardless of the enemy's health. Yes, I know this is old Sudden Death. No, I do not care. The idea would work fantastically.
This would solve so many problems with the current vengeance tree. Our dps is extremely immobile, as I mentioned before, seeing as we have to remain still (and hope our target does the same) for 3 seconds out of every 15-30 depending on procs. Being a melee dps that has to stay still 10-20% of the time in order to achieve maximum damage output is brutal. Absolutely brutal, and not fun in any way. An immobile melee channel slaughters the spec in pvp and hurts us on any fight where there is any movement. Let melee specs be mobile like they're supposed to be.
- Sidebar - I have been, for the last few hours, been interrupting my ravage channel after the first second (two ticks go off in this time). You know what? I like it so much better this way. I feel so much more mobile and free. If I'm taking any sort of damage hit, I haven't noticed it.
This would make our rotation much smoother, as well. I suppose I should admit that I feel a channeled/cast ability for a melee class is not really fun and counter-intuitive, but that discussion can wait for another day. We would still be using Ravage on cooldown, but we would have another free GCD every 15-30 seconds to do...well, whatever else the situation may call for. Throw in a force push, smash, maybe even an extra Assault if we're low on rage.
We have basically zero front-loaded damage. Ravage's largest tick comes at the very end (like, 2.9 second mark) of the 3-second channel, Shatter's largest damage component is the 12-second dot; on top of this, all of our rage costs are very high. We have to stagger our shatters at least one Sundering Assault away from our impale and force scream or else we won't have enough rage in time for the next round.
While doubtful, if the damage output becomes too powerful, you could simply remove vicious throw from Savagery. I say this is doubtful because at my current gear level, a crit Vicious Throw does about 2000 - 2600 damage, much less than a full-channeled Ravage. Also, this ability would not suffer the same balance problems brought about by old Sudden Death for Arms warriors. This "execute" style ability does not consume excess rage for additional damage, has a 6 second cooldown, and the abilities that proc the use of vicious throw both have 9 second cooldowns.
The few GCDs this change would open up might even provide us with a reson to keep vicious slash on our bars, as currently we have neither the free rage nor free GCDs to use this ability.
- TL;DR - Change Rampage from the current state to allowing the use of vicious throw regardless of enemy health. This change would make the Vengeance tree a more powerful and more fun spec to play. When the developers look at making adjustments to the Juggernaught class, I truly hope that they consider this as one possible course of action.
Edited a few times since I'm a major Derpenstein and said Savagery several times where I meant Rampage. If anything confuses you, I might have missed another instance of that. I'm continuing to actively edit this for clarification and to better outline my points.
And this has nothing at all to do with the fact that vicious throw is the coolest spell animation in the game. Nothing. At all.
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Whoah whoah whoah wait a second
Someone goes into a BG with a pocket healer and dominates?
Man, this is an amazing development.
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Quinn, Medpacks, Strength Stim, Presence drink, saber ward, trinkets, pray.
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I would recommend not yet.
Once you get Shatter, however, you will never use vicious slash again.
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I don't really feel as if the last ability in vengeance is worth it. The rage cost is so much.. you do get an occasional burst situation where you can use it but IMO a hybrid spec offers more. Some may disagree but I love that 40% reduced damage cooldown, and being able to spam aoe snare.
Something like this for pvp.. for pve you'll have to ask someone else.
Well, currently, vengeance is terrible in pvp. We need a **** load of uptime on our target to do any manner of respectable damage, which is something that is absolutely not possible given the tools of the classes we're up against.
In pve, Shatter is an absolute must. Shatter is the highest DPET ability in the vengeance tree, given you only refresh the bleed as it expires.
You should be using Quinn. Sadly, Vette's damage is not high enough as you grow in levels to be able to keep up with the benefit that Quinn's healing gives you. I haven't used any of the other companions, but I assume the case is the same.
For ability priority, this will change as you level. Initially, ravage and force scream are your first priorities. Once you put the point into impale, just keep them off cooldown. When you put the point into Savagery, use impale first, then scream. When you put points into Rampage, your priority is Ravage > Impale > Scream. Once you get Shatter, your priorities are Shatter every 8 globals (12 seconds) > Ravage > Sundering assault > Impale > Scream. With this rotation, you will always have enough rage to use all of your abilities nearly every time they are off cooldown.
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The OP also fails to mention that those classes doing 4k to 5k crits also get smashed in seconds because of low avoidance / mitigation / hp compared to a Juggernaut that (if properly played and geared) can sustain a beating from 4 people while running with a Huttball! We're called 'Juggernauts' for a reason, bro. Its not because we can shoot strong laser bolts from a distance.
What you should do is embrace the strong points of your class and use that in your PVP strategy. Load yourself up with defense and hp. Forget about doing big damage with a saber. Stay in Soresu form, always. Use guard on your healer or ball carrier, always. Keep others slowed, support your team, peel off the healers, stop ball carriers in their tracks. You are the MASTER of control and a single skilled Jugg can change the outcome of a Warzone easily.
"Shut up and tank/heal" is not an acceptable answer to any balance issue, ever.
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Perhaps this isn't speaking to your intended point, but Shatter is the iconic vengeance ability. At least, shatter is our highest DPET ability.
The bleeds on force scream and impale should be buffed, though. As things currently stand, both impale and shatter are barely more single target damage than Smash, which is AoE.
HERP DERP! 
I see no problem with Juggernaut DPS
in Guardian / Juggernaut
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And...you don't see how that might affect the outcome of the damage meters?