The problem is you have two outcomes as a result of smaller teams. 1. The devs start adjusting / balancing / changing / redoing classes in an attempt to even out all classes to be even. This will unfortunately, as history has shown us, have adverse affects on PVE content. 2. There will be specific team makeups that are the best, and if you are not one of the 4 classes / specs, you will fail. Also, I have been a hardcore PVPer for a long time. CPK'd in a mud called Medevia, PK'd in UO, PVP'd in DAOC, PVP'd in WoW, and now I have leveled my toon in SW solely on PVP and class quest. In every one of these games I competed in the upper echelon of what PVP was offered and enjoyed most. The only "Hard Core" PVP that I did not find overly enjoyable was Arena's. I always found the class imbalance (proven to be a fact by the cookie cutter teams) to be quite annoying since I only focus on 1 character. I did however find RBG's to be extremely fun and MUCH MUCH more skill oriented than Arena's (competed in both in the 2200+ range). Even though I am a fairly hardcore PVPer, I have severe concerns over how the implementation of Arena's will negatively impact other aspects of PVP (Rated Warzones and PVE).

I agree. My biggest fear (as my previous post stated) is the sacrifices other aspects of the game will have to make so BW can tailor classes to be "equal" in Arena's. Right now, they are not remotely equal and it would take a lot of work to bring the classes on the low end up to meet the classes on the high end in regards to 1v1,2v2, or 3v3 combat. this is why I still believe 8v8 arena style combat and or straight deathmatch would be the only ways to implement "Arena's" into this game and not negatively impact others. I have felt wow has declined drastically in class diversity and PVE balance ever since arena's were introduced in BC. Lots of the changes were made just to balance that, and quite frankly, ruined a lot of classes for people.

This is an example of why I believe 8v8 matches or straight deathmatch style matches would be better. It allows the game to be more diverse and better tailor for PVE, while still having good PVP. This is certainly an area WoW has lacked in for years. Ever since Arena's were introduced it has been slowly hindering PVE more and more to tailor more for 2v2/3v3 Arena.

After some thought and reading of posts after mine, I would like to retract my original post and say I am now against Arena's in the WoW sense due to what I have seen here. My main reason for this is: I always enjoyed DAOC PVP the most. Classes in DAOC would have been terrible in the arena because they were not balanced for it. Each class had it's role, and it was the collective of the team that balanced out. There was nearly no way to make 2v2 even in DAOC because a Midgard Cleric + anything with AOE would win all battles due to cleric AOE stuns + heals, however in an 8v8 or greater situation it balanced. Now, I realize this is not DAOC (Dark Age of Camelot), but I was using this as an example because right now we have a very similar setup going on. Some classes do far more damage and have far better control than others in this game, and you would find 2/3 class combinations that become unbeatable. This would inevitably spark class balances to try to even things and one day lead to the vanilla class separation we have now in WoW. So how about I propose an alternative that could possibly satisfy both the desire for arena's and the desire to maintain group cooperative play as the core essential. I believe 8v8 or larger Death Matches (Arena's essentially), set up in Arena's, would still allow the game to maintain some level of class separation and still allow those who desire Arena's to have that fulfilled. I'm sure i will get flamed by the OP for not agreeing (as I have seen her doing a lot in here), but I am hoping this will at least expand the discussion to include more than the cookie cutter WoW arena train of thought.

While I love PVP and have always loved PVP, I do not enjoy Arena much. I much preferred Rated Battlegrounds in WoW, sieges in DAOC, and other group oriented PVP of the sort. While I understand the desire for Arena combat, much of Arena is based on very fine tuning of class balance and we know classes will never be balanced. Arms warriors in WoW 2 seasons ago were massacring people. TSG was unbeatable for a time, ETC. My request to BioWare would be: - Feel free to implement arena's for those who really do enjoy and like them! I hope the arena's are of high quality and the class balances are done to a fairly effective level. - (As I believe is planned) - 8 man Rated Warzones that all 8 can be pre-organized. - Offer two sets of high end gear, one from Arena's and one from Warzones. This gear should be identical in stats thereby making them equal. I would / will play the **** out of some Rated WZ's, but only will be found in Arena's if it is 100% required to max out points per week, and I would hate every second of it. (for the record, my highest arena rating was 2400, so while I wasn't the best, I also did not get straight pwned in it. My entire rating was earned ONLY because of the requirement to do it, and nothing more. Once I completed my Arena's each week I was done).

your stuns have angered me! I am now immune!

^^ This....

Am I the only one that likes the strategies and team involvement the current system creates? I see no reason to change it. For the record, I only pug at this time and I pug non-stop. I have leveled all 36 levels of my current character and 50 levels of my old character through PVP pugs. Passing the ball in Huttball is a premium because of all the knockbacks, stuns, and roots. Don't always run forward, sometimes you run backwards to drag the enemy team with you, then pass. If you get knocked off the walkway, look for the guy who is still up there that didn't and pass. If you are about to cross a frying pan and you have someone on you, time the cross when you resolve is maxed and your "PvP Trinket" is available. If it's not, pass. PVP in a Warzone is not a solo game. It is a team game. The morale of the story is, pass pass pass ... win sorry, i know it's not a popular opinion but i will be quite disappointed if they do change it.

Well, I have run into a situation with Left / Right just this week. I used to play on server Firaxan Shark as Imperial. That server used Left / Right on voidstar. It was based on the left / right doors on the map. I now play on The Twin Spears as republic. This server also uses Left / Right on voidstar, but it is based on direction when leaving spawn. This had me so backwards until I realized what they were doing. As for East / West. While I like absolutes, for some unknown reason people today seem not to know their directions. This was a much bigger problem on my imperial than my republic, but it still presents in games today. I say we give them names to do not apply what-so-ever. We should have the Bunny Turret and the Tomato Turret. At least then I can't be frustrated when people go to the wrong one.

Anonymity does that, not damage meters. You are wrong, sorry. The problems didn't exist in EQ, DAOC, Vanguard, etc, etc, etc or even WOW until the Cross Server LFG Utility that allowed people to not give a damn about their reputation or the people around them.

You are in fact incorrect. Say I play a Guardian: I have been denied joining groups, even though I am DPS spec'd, because they claim Guardian DPS is bad. This is arbitrary with 0 evidence what-so-ever, but I have NO way to overcome this without some sort of DPS meter / log. Would you suggest I just play a different character even tho I like mine? Or would you suggest I tank since that's what people believe I should be? I have yet to find like minded people who agree guardian DPS is viable. Without combat logs, I am forced into a single mold. This is the exact scenario a friend of mine is in. Fortunately I lead my guild, so I don't have to overcome these issues. What is your solution those who hate combat logs? BTW, read my previous posts for arguments FOR them that no one has YET to overcome.

I just think it's funny how they all read over my post, and since they have no good rebuttal to support their wild theories decided to ignore it. Guess that just follows right along with their ignorance is bliss theory with combat logs eh?

Everquest had combat logs before either of them. Parsing of data was very common on the Lanys Ty'Vyl server. It did not destroy the game. RIFT, DAOC, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Lineage 2, AION and i'm sure the list goes on all have damage parsers. It hasn't ruined those games.......... WoW had combat logs and parsers VERY early: DamageMeters & SW_STATS. They did not ruin the game. It wasn't until Lich King, when the Cross Server LFG Utility was added and a high level of anonymity existed that issues presented themselves heavily. Damage Parsers are a great tool. It was the anonymous nature of grouping in WoW that destroyed it, not damage parsers. See, in this type of situation, you can't blame a tool for "ruining" a game when it is common across many MMO's and didn't ruin them. Remember, guns can kill, but it's the people behind them that did it. What stops people from shooting people all the time? It is the fact that they will be held responsible. Bet me that if we removed law and police from the world, we wouldn't have people shooting each other left and right.

Signed.

I just wander in circles. I prefer never to even approach a gun. which I am now changing the word gun/turret to sausage. Therefore, when I do decide to approach a sausage I will be asking people to assist me at the mayonnaise sausage. which would make me hungry but i am a bit leery of combining mayonnaise and sausage.