I like this game....we'll see what happens when I hit 50 though, which will likely happen within a week or two at most.

Thanks for clearing it up. I never played WoW PvP competitively (only for ***** and giggles) but I realized that the basic ideas of the arena were taken from Guild Wars (which I did play competitively). 2v2 was a joke. 3s are slightly balanced, 5s are where it's really at. Now all they need to do is make a DoTA/MOBA/LoL mode.

Never played it, no idea how the PvP worked. Though for some reason I doubt it because one of the huge RNG factors that must be removed for balanced PvP besides RNG itself is this: teams must be even or 1v1.

Nothing's wrong with comparing SC2 with RPGs, or comparing fighters to RTS. If you've played any of them competitively you'll know the mindgames and metagame underneath the PvP is very similar. Too lazy to explain though, I already know by the way you're posting that you're either A. Trolling B. You don't play any PvP game competitively (ie. local tournaments, large tournaments, etc. etc.). EDIT: Forgot to mention, we can compare arenas to something very similar in an RPG setting but I'm too lazy: DoTA/MOBA/LoL

Name me an MMO that has come closer to achieving this balance. The closest would be Guild Wars and I believe that is where WoW shifted it's ideas from. Also, every game has the same problems: Street Fighter IV: Sagat was TOP TIER and VERY n00b friendly. I remember watching a high level replay of somebody who literally won using ONLY Tiger Uppercuts and cancels. BlazBlue: First edition of BlazBlue we had Tager, and Haku as complete utter garbage in competitive play; though they were still used. V-12 literally went around stabbing everyone to death being the OP zoning character she was; she was even mash friendly so n00bs could get the hang of her fast. Mind you, I used Noel, who keeps getting changed for no reason. StarCraft 2: The game has constantly changed: Toss 4-gate used to win out everything. Terran 1-1-1 all in used to work as well (think it still does, I have not played competitively for a few months). Dunno about Zerg, they never had any good all-in strategies unless you count VERY early in beta/release with Baneling busts. As you can see, every competitive game has OP character/strategies that either get nerfed to the ground, or whatever. However, OP or not, a skilled player can still beat the **** out of "OP strats". World of Warcraft is the game that comes CLOSEST to allowing the player to do this.

It isn't. But it's the closest to balanced MMORPG PvP we have ever seen in the history of MMOs. What is balance? You need to compare it to true PvP games. We cannot use things such as FPS games but we can, closely, compare them to fighters and RTS games. Two that come into mind are: BlazBlue StarCraft 2 The idea of "balanced PvP" is where gear does not matter and individual skill is the only factor into winning. Why WoW PvP refuses to remove criticals is beyond me. SC2 and BB have no RNG elements in competitive play at all (except maybe network issues). There are no predetermined levels, there is only the hidden level of individual skill that you will not know until you are matched against your opponent. I am a rank 10 Master player that occasionally decides to go onto my gf's account, who is in Silver, and kick the living **** out of everyone (and tell them I'll leave before I murder them because I don't want to rank up her account). In BlazBlue, it's the same thing. I'll occasionally go online and haul *** from pure skill alone. Skill != time invested into a game. I spent 4 months playing 45 minutes of StarCraft 2 a day. I know others who have spent FAR MORE to hit high Masters. Learning how to play a game is similar to learning how to play an instrument. When you reach an obstacle, you need to stop, think, and reflect upon your mistakes. You can waste tons of time "spamming" or trying to "brute force" your way into understanding (many players do this, the best players in the world do not). The day an MMO incorporates this is the day we have a truly balanced PvP experience within an MMO. For now, World of Warcraft comes closest as gear is not a factor in arena PvP, it is simply experience (I am talking about their tournaments, not normal play where everyone has to earn gear).

I love competition and I fear failure so greatly that it is one of my greatest motivators. I stunt on a CBR600RR in real life, I also work out 6 times a week in 1 hour sessions, I take my gaming (when I have the time) to basement dwelling levels, I've maintained a constant 4.0 GPA in software development at Waterloo. And above all, I'll say it again, I love competition. Through competition, people become closer to perfection; you need to lose, fail, and get your *** kicked to learn. And that's what competition is for.

No it didn't. There were no quest lines for you to hit level 85. SWG was a damn sandbox MMO, I played it and I know *** it was. Hell, there weren't even levels, SWG and WoW have one thing in common...they were MMOs. Neither had the same formulaic approach to creating the game. EFFFFFF!! I need to stop reading forums, makes me wonder why people are so stupid.

I forgot to mention, what the **** is wrong with dual spec? I can sing, play cello, and piano on a professional/classical level (except singing, pop singing and emo singing is not pro). You're telling me by your logic I should drop one irl? NO! If I get bored of tanking, what's the difference between rerolling my same class into heal spec, OR SKIPPING THAT A DUAL SPECCING?! Healing isn't hard, tanking isn't hard, DPS isn't hard. MMOS ARE NOT HARD. If I wanted to play a hard game, I would be playing Guilty Gear XX, BlazBlue: CS2, Street Fighter 4 AE, StarCraft 2 (master player rank 10 currently), Battlefield 3, or a multitude of other games that are actually hard. God damnit you people make me want to go lift weights and smash things...speaking of which Im gonna go lift weights right now.

You know what a themepark MMO is? They didn't exist until World of Warcraft came out. No game had enough quests for you to grind to max level, prior to WoW it used to be camp spots and grind for hours....which meant all non-nerdy basement dwellers, such as my previous obese self, were invited to play. Everyone else did not have the time for it. This game is a themepark MMO, because of that there are standards currently set by World of Warcraft that must be met or improved upon; I don't expect you to understand as you can't even see what I just said without me having to point it out to you.

You need to realize that a large portion of World of Warcraft players have come here to play this themepark game with an amazing story. What we were looking for, and I can speak for most players, was essentially a World of Warcraft, or theme park type game, IN SPACE with voice acting. The problem right now is that many features are currently missing, such as a well designed AH interface, dual spec, hell, make it triple spec or quad spec, PvP brackets, working raid frames, LFG tools, guild tools, and others. If Bioware is actually stupid enough to listen to, most of the WoW players will GO BACK TO WoW. If you want this game to succeed, you do NOT want this to happen. Had they designed this game around a "sandbox" design, the WoW syndrome wouldn't apply. But they decided to design it as a themepark...so too damn bad. Go back 10 years and kill Blizzard employees who made WoW if you hate it so much, WoW is the king and it is here to stay until it screws itself up or something dethrones it and because of that: World of Warcraft has set standards that other themepark games MUST follow and improve upon or get swallowed by the beast itself. I haven't played WoW in months but when playing this game, the similarities are obvious...as are the lack of features *COUGH* UI.

We all know PvP is currently flawed as hell. I just hit level 30 and decided to random pug, I've only random pugged once and got my *** kicked at level 11. Force Push helped A LOT with all the different zones. Before I would simply sit in the back and Guard + Taunt crap and try to peel people off healers or something; now I can actually push ppl off cliffs and into fire pits of doom. Long story short: we need level brackets unless you want the PvPers to only PvP at level 50. You may alienate some of your customers this way though I believe the percentage will be small as most people will be 50. Suggestion 1 Need PvP brackets. Currently a problem with PvE instances is the lack of a group finder. There are arguments behind "building server community" etc. etc. but currently I'm ONLY playing with my guild, I even have a strict "invite only people you know irl...unless you meet someone that isn't stupid". We know that most of the players do not come from World of Warcraft or have any idea of how the hell to run an instance. They don't know to stay off circles of doom or stay away from fire. I do not feel like spending 30 minutes creating a group and having it break in 5 seconds on first wipe. Put the dungeon finder in if you want us to experience this content and make sure it is cross server to reduce queue times. Suggestion 2 Need flashpoint auto group thingy Whoever designed the auction house UI needs to get shot. Please take a look at google.com and take a lesson off that. The majority of users are brain dead, or choose to be brain dead, create a UI around this. Suggestion 3 Redesign the AH UI from ground up Feel free to suggest other stuff, too lazy to go on right now. This game isn't bad, in fact I love it, but it really does need some things to bring it "up to par" with World of Warcraft. There are just features that are standard in a casual MMO that MUST be implemented. You may in fact try to even refine them to kick the **** out of WoW; whatever you do, however, do NOT alienate the casual customer. Seems like half of the people on these forums want you to do that.

Back when I was younger, like 10~ years ago, I used to play MMOs in my basement as a fat little kid with a bunch of other skinny or fat kids. As we grew up, the following happened: Me: Got ripped, stopped playing MMOs after WoW:Cataclysm. Brother: Got ripped, stopped playing MMOs after Lineage 2. Friend: Gets drunk a lot, too cheap to play games. Chid hood friend: Hated MMOs. This game has somehow gotten me and the 3 others above, plus 7 others making a total of 11, into the same game, onto the same server. And guess what? We all love this game, even my girl friend does. Thanks Bioware, I feel like a fat kid again playing in my basement without having to give a **** about incoming exam-that-gonna-fail-me until a few more months. Dunno why ppl are hating on it...maybe their friends hate it? lol

Need them, now! I want midgets owning people; I wonder if Jawa or Ewoks can be Jedi/Sith.

.....I read this thread before I got to Valis and thought that Jedi Knights would suck. I also thought they sucked due to PvPing with them and not knowing what to do until I read a few other threads. You guys are bad, seriously, I downed him on my first try using basic rotations and timing the damage reduction CDs with Force Statis. It really wasn't that bad. Gotta stop reading forums. I nearly rerolled reading these threads.

Every time I queue with 4 other friends, we win. Every time I queue solo, we lose.

In every match I've come first on my team in terms of medals. People do not fight on point, and while I don't know about other classes, every Jedi Guardian has been a complete n00b. Guard and Taunt are not hard to use, fighting on point is not hard, please stop sucking. Should've rolled Sith.

Nah, it's far from the worst launch. But at this rate, I'm gonna have to run the macro program and give it to all my friends again (hit space key every 5 seconds). Nobody wants to wait to get in. And my queue time is going up not down LOL

It's 10 minutes at this time; yesterday and the day before it was 10 minutes in the evening (peak times). I am scared to think of what happens in the evening now, yours will probably double as well.

I made the mistake of starting on Twin Spears (though no where near as high as others) and it now has a 10 minute queue...at this time. Problem is: 6 other friends also joined me. Nobody likes queues, open up transfers from high pop to low pop servers to alleviate the problem please.

Bump.

So does anyone know when they hve to be inputted before preorders are kicked off without a key?

Is it Tuesday midnight? Cause I'm playing at a friend's house and I preordered all of them SWTOR...don't feel like driving back (50 minutes) and coming back until Wednesday unless I have to.

Look up the Japanese 40 year old that looks 20. lol

You don't get wrinkly, saggy cheeks and baby fat in 10 years...do you?