This I tried force camo on Soa HM when I had a lightening ball on me. It switched targets without announcing. It was bad.

Speed doesn't really effect footsteps tempo If it did youid see yourself sprinting in force cloak but you don't. In combat you have a different tempo when sabers are off, different tempo when you take out sabers.

Already played almost entirely Anni, been trying to see if Carnage is any viable. Frankly, bored of Anni for a bit. Ability to spam Massacre is nice. As for turning Ataru on, I am not really seeing any speed increase.

As a Marauder I wanted to add my experience from last night. We(Sith) have a daily heroic 2+ mission on Belsavis where you enter a maze and kill a bunch of robots to get to a boss. There are usually groups of 4 silver and 1 gold NPCs. I normally CC'ed the gold and finished the silver ones (with healer companion) and then killed the gold after some companion heals. I could solo this mission. Last night after patch I tried this mission again. I CC'ed the gold and started fighting the silvers. I died 3 times on the same group. The 4 silvers ripped me apart. Oh, and I have mostly Rakata gear, including Rakata mainhand and offhand sabers. I was MUCH squishier than before patch and I am wondering if something changed on my class or the NPCs? Took me longer to kill the silvers too. I am Annihilation(Watchman) specced.

Defensive Forms: Increases your movement speed by 15% in Ataru Form When I'm in Ataru Form, I never notice this speed buff. While doing dailies, after finishing a mission in a cave in Belsavis, me and my groupie were running out and pulled aggro (entered combat) and we kept on running outside without engaging, but still in combat. While I should be 15% faster than him, I wasn't. I wonder if this +15% is actually working? In the heat of battles in WZs I never paid attention but seems to me I am not getting any speed increase. Best way to test is get a groupie who is not a Marauder, get aggro from some NPCs and run side by side. Anyone else can confirm this?

Told you so

get a room!

we'd still not have heavy armor tho.. oh and heals!

bad design indeed

Ataru proc is pitiful damage. Even Anni tree bleed ticks are higher than this proc and bleed ticks are 100% chance every second instead of 20% chance of ataru proc. Are you trying to be an arse or why do you keep repeating the same quote? Bleed tick > Ataru proc Bleed ticks stay on target even if u're dead, for ataru proc u have to melee Bleed ticks heal you for 3% of your hp with Bersek, Ataru procs = ? Ataru proc dmg should at least be 80-90% of mainhand hit and/or slow enemy and/or heal you for some amount

Ok, when I posted OP I had Ataru procs and massacre on my mind that needed fixing/adjusting. Still, nice to see some discussion for carnage tree. I switched to carnage spec few days ago before we did Karagga's palace HM. It's nice to be able to spam massacre and yellow+white numbers flying around. But then at final boss (Karagga) I noticed the horrible thing as someone mentioned on forums before: Ataru doesn't proc on bosses with big hitboxes! I was furious! I basicly had to move right under the thing to see massacre proc ataru hits, else it wouldn't proc at all. I've always played Anni but i kinda got bored by not being able to use berserk in certain places in EV or some other instances. It didn't feel too bursty either. Having 8 rakata pieces and rest in columi set I thought hey I maybe can do some nice bursts with Carnage, so I switched. While the Massacre hit itself did some ok dmg, the ataru proc dmg was still pitiful. Also not being able to force charge at 0m was frustrating. I noticed why I played Anni, it has so many utilities. For Carnage tree to be viable: 1- Ataru procs should be a % of our main hand and not a flat number 2- Ataru procs on bosses with big hitboxes dont work, this is a gamebreaker and should be fixed 3- It's hard to squeeze in many hits in Gore's 6 second armor pen debuff. 4- I am not noticing the +15% run speed in ataru form at all! Even Rage tree has speed buff after use of obliterate. Mobility needs to increase in Carnage tree, say +20/30% movement increase for X seconds with ataru procs. i am obviously switching back to Anni spec, but it would be nice to have another viable tree for raiding.

the link you gave is BS, if you read that thread everyone is laughing their asses off for a call to nerf Marauders and if you're running around DPSing people in hutball good for you, bad for the team. Until combat logs are introduced all these "Marauders are uber, L2P" posts are beyond stupid

There has to be some changes in this tree. The Ataru proc shouldn't be a flat number, it should scale with your dps or should be a 2nd strike of your main. In the future players will have higher stats, maybe higher levels than 50, they'll be doing much migher damage in Rage and Anni trees but Ataru procs will do the same pitiful damage? This mechanic has to change. A 31-point skill for a geared-to-teeth lvl 50 player shouldn't do the same damage as a fresh lvl 50 in green gear. Imagine in the future skill cap also gets to 60 and you're doing same ataru proc dmg...bad, bad mechanic Your thoughts?

Any skill that "increases critical strike damage of X attack by Y%" doesn't multiply the X crit dmg by Y%, the Y% is simply added to your surge rating. Damage modifiers are ADDITIVE, not multiplicative ie: your surge now= 70% skill gives +30% to X attack's crit dmg surge for X attack becomes 70+30%=100% if your bleed base tick was 100*1,36 = 136 after patch it will become 100*1,15=115 crit of bleed tick would, before patch, be 136*1,7=231 and after patch would become 115*2=230 if your base surge is higher than 70% right now(in character screen), the dmg change will be bigger, as in your crit damage will be lower after the patch. If your bleed doesn't crit, then you'll flat out do less bleed dmg since it was 136 per tick, after patch will become 115 per tick Sorry I dunno sentinel skill names, I play a Marauder this is an obvious nerf

Marauder/Sentinel 2nd hand saber also doesn't benefit from power/strength they also don't have 500 rage pool to spam their special attacks, they have to make rage to do special attacks

They have multiple stun/pushback/knockback/evasion/root to counter enemy stun/pushback/knockback/evasion/root

Response to OP: Annihilation Marauders are NOT getting a buff. BW is nerfing one and buffing another skill which in the end nerfs bleed dps of Annihilation Marauders by 5-8%. Unfortunately everyone believes what BW says without doing the math. Patchnote saying Annihilation dps will increase is a blatant lie!

a 15 second bufff for +15% dmg with 5 min CD? Are you for real??

you're a perfect example of his reasoning If majority of people play sorc/sage then obviously they will have a louder voice on forums /thread example 2

I was talking about BASE surge from you char screen, NOT adding the skills from juyo etc big deal you have 10% more than what I used in the calculation Whatever your surge is, it doesn't change the fact that the the new bleed crits will be lower So stop derailing the subject with your uber stats.

sigh.. Serıously, you don't know the formulas. "Increase in crit damage" skills are NOT multiplicative, they're ADDITIVE!!! For the love of god!!! THEY ADD TO SURGE STAT FOR A PARTICULAR SKILL! So it's NOT 1150(talented bas) x 30% on crit(bleedout) x 2(crit) it's 1150(talented bas) x 2,3 = 2645 But this x2 is a HUGE base surge you took. With best gear I've seen is around 80-85% surge Bleed Tick = 100 Base Surge = 80% Surge on Tick Crit (old) =80% Surge on Tick Crit (new) =80%+30% dmg multiplier (old): 1,36 dmg multiplier (new): 1,15 Old: 1000*1,36*1,8 = 2448 New: 1000*1,15*2,1 = 2415 Once again, you don't multiply, you add! surge ratings together to find the new surge. If your base surge is 50% and a skill increases your X attack's crit dmg by Y% then your X crit dmg will become X*(1,5+Y) NOT X*1,5*Y

Yeah, I had most medals and highest dmg with my level 10 merc, same with m lvl 12 Op the I first time entered WZs with them. But the stat boost doesn't reflect the truth at all. Have fun grinding all the way to 50 and getting tossed around in Hutball like a greased Hutt in level 50 bracket.

That's the problem. You're fooled by the stat boost WZ gives you sub 50. Level ANY class to 10, enter a WZ and I guarantee you'll be in top 3 dmg. The boost doesn't scale well with level. The closer you get to 49 the less boost you receive, hence level 15 marauders beating level 40 marauders.

"sustain" I laugh everytime I hear this word thrown around from wannabe leets You're not fighting a raid boss, you're fighting a 17-18k hp player. Op takes down that number down so much faster than you and moves onto next target. You throw around these stupid cliche words like "sustained dps" and "utilities" it just makes you look stupid. You lack the knownledge of all other classes. A fight doesn't (and shouldn't) last more than 20 seconds in a WZ (unless you're constantly kicked back down like in hutball). Sustained dps? lol At least with my Op I can take out enemies from afar AND upclose. I can shoot stuff without having to build rage from 30 meters. How's that for `sustained DPS` edit: ok you're DEFINITELY clueless

- no u -