Yep, been doing the same thing with a couple of guildmates lately to find a new home for the guild (while the majority of them pass the time in Ark). In getting ready to present it in two weeks, I created a small spreadsheet with the Pros and Cons of each (since our 15 year old guild tends to move en masse). Creating that spreadsheet, especially the part of content released since Dec 2014 was the shocking eye opener about just how little new content SWTOR has put out compared to their competition. Heck, even TSW, run by a small $20 million company has put out more content than SWTOR in the last couple of years.

I think what he meant is they are NOT fixing it. The continue to make it even worse. Over 1,200 PvP matches for gearing, really? That was their FIX. The number one problem is how bad the RNG is on the crates. How you get more useless junk than anything. So, in all the livestreams since going live, in 5.1, in changes discussed for 5.2 and in this very post, where have they addressed that this is the NUMBER ONE problem with the current system? See the problem? I'll add one other salient point and this is a good one: Since 5.0, specifically the GC System, it really seems to have become and us (customers) versus them (company) scenario. The example given was how maybe a half dozen people (out of thousands) farmed gold mobs on Tatooine and hit the cap in three days. BW was quick (like four days into the launch) to nerf the Champion mob CxP. But when players (customers) are in a major uproar about the length of the grind, BW is going to take until April to make a fix that benefits their customers. As was stated, this is completely *** backwards from the way any sane company operates, regardless of the business. This is why so many people are in complete disbelief about what is happening with this system.

An old saying comes to mind, "Desperate people do desperate things." Their thinking is probably that sub losses are mounting fast and they are trying to figure out what to say to stem the bleeding. Thing is, what they should have been thinking, prior to the 5.0 drop, is that the GC System (even at announcement) was not received well at all and maybe should have been held for a later date until they worked something out. But I also think they knew they had very little content in the expansion that would keep people subbed beyond a month, so they had to come up with some gimmick to try and keep people subbed.

No, I think just like dropping this in the first place, BioWare still hasn't learned a single thing from the history of the game. Any player who has been here since launch, or was here at launch then came back, KNOWS this was going to happen. It happened in the 1.0-1.6 era, anyone who thought it would be different this time is an utter idiot. Secondly, they tried damage control (anyone remember the guild summit?) and the "we are monitoring" things line before. Back then, they thought they had all the time in the world to fix it, they never considered it urgent and just thought people would blindly believe what they said. Well, we know the outcome of those first six months after launch, commonly remembered as the TORtanic days, when the title almost went belly up. At least they had F2P to save them that time. Now, the GC system went one better - it told all the F2P and Preferred players to get lost - so they won't even have them to save it this time. Now they are between a rock and a hard place. Limited resources that should 100% be focused on adding new content to the game, now have to be split between dripping out some meager amount of new content and a good portion of them have to be dedicated to fixing this trainwreck that they put upon themselves. It's almost as if someone's career with EA is riding on making this system work. But I guess the dumb customers just didn't know how "exciting" this system is supposed to be, because it is more exciting hitting the cancel button on your game sub than the open crate button on Command Crates.

It's too late for saving subs for me (I am done for good come Feb. 14) or my entire guild. The fact that you even dropped the 5.0 GS/RNG System despite overwhelming negative feedback at announcement, during the PTS beta, and after going live has made it so we have all decided it's time to move on. However, I will leave some constructive feedback in hopes of at least giving something to help others who have decided to stay. 1.) A crate every 30 minutes. Forgive me, but you also said pre-5.0 you were shooting for 1 hour of casual play. Casual does not mean that someone should be planning how to maximize CxP to actually get it in an hour. But there is little you can do today to even hit that hour mark. To put it bluntly, if you are shooting for a crate every thirty minutes of casual play, then the maximum the CxP should be is 1,200 per level. That is what someone may get in winning two warzones in a half hour. 2.) You guys still ignore, in every livestream, in 5.1, in the changes already announced in 5.2 and now in this post the elephant in the room with the command crates. The RNG is AWFUL. You get more meaningless stuff than anything else. It is frustrating (not exciting), and it is the number one cause that had the members of my guild decide enough was enough. Even if you make the crates come every thirty minutes. If people are not getting anything useful for 15-20 crates, it is still 5-7 hours of grinding to get one piece of somewhat useful gear. Until you guys address the utter frustration with the RNG currently, speeding up getting that frustration won't do you any good. Hope this helps. It won't get me or my guild back but at least it may be able to be used to stem some of the bleeding.

I fail to get neither. It's good you enjoy your time in game. But those like you are becoming fewer and fewer by the week. Eventually, their may be no game to come to. Like it or not, I am mainly pointing out what SWTOR is up against. There are a lot of people that do look at what other titles give them for their money, and if SWTOR can't even come close to competing, then the player base will continue to decline. This was a thread about resources after all. When you look at what people are getting for their $180 in FF14, ESO, LOTRO or any other AAA MMO, people are getting far, far, far less for their money in SWTOR than any other title. I am sorry that facts bother you, but people are wondering why such a very small amount of content in two years and literally almost no new group content. If people want to play because it's "Star Wars" fine. But they are getting a heck of a lot (by a long margin) for their money than anywhere else. Finally, I love you point out the hypocrisy as you mention how much you enjoy the game, yet are here posting responses the forums. If you were enjoying it so much then shouldn't you be in game?

People do realize at this point that SWTOR customers receive the worst treatment from a company (to the point of it actually being abusive) out of any AAA MMO on the market - Yes?

A couple things. He did another interview in late 2014/early 2015 (not sure when, just that it was after GDC 2014, where he basically said it is the cash shop F2P model - especially those scamming customers with RNG lockbox models - that is making games become junk. He stated that he believes this happens for two reasons: 1.) The cash shops make developers lazy as they require so little effort for such a return, but it has long term consequences in that it is not sustainable and, he believes, it hurts the reputation of the whole company and makes future products harder to sell because you have tarnished the company name (bear in mind that the Japanese are very concerned with brand integrity and image) and 2.) For those that don't go the lazy route (i.e., avoid cash boxes), they spend a lot of resources developing content to sell because of the sporadic nature of the revenue they have to constantly develop for it (think of how many new packs SWTOR has created in the last two years versus actual content). As a result, they are not focusing on new content which is the lifeblood of being able to grow your game and retain you customers. Secondly, they are not doing an Op, new daily area and two returning companions because they are learning (the GC system alone shows they haven't learned a single thing from the first three years of the games existence). They are doing it because they are desperate - most likely because subs are fleeing like crazy. The look on their faces on the last livestream should have told everyone how bad it is. They weren't happy, they barely ever smiled, and they were doing something they have never done in this entire games existence - talking about development plans for the whole coming year. But even with those plans, they are asking people to stay subbed to get 1/50th the content competitive MMOs are putting out. I mean, come on, even TSW - run by a small company, has put out a lot more content in the last two years than SWTOR did. You can't get any worse than having a AAA MMO with the biggest IP in gaming getting outdone by a small development studio that does $20 million a year. It really is at the point where you have to seriously ask yourself if you like SWTOR enough to keep drinking the cyanide laced cool-aid to keep throwing $180/year at them (not including CM purchases) when any other AAA MMO is going to give you 50 times more (and I mean that literally) for your money.

I'd be willing to bet solo players make up about 10% of a customer base. Two point of inflection: 1.) At last year's FF fanfest, they mentioned that 89% of players group regularly for play and 11% solo-play and/or group infrequently. 2.) At SWTOR launch their were 2 million subs. By the following summer, 6 months later, there were 200,000. 10% of the original base (this number grew to 400k with the move to F2P). So 10% of the peeps remained, the rest leaving over the lack of end game group content and the sheer volume of silliness (tanks getting healing gear drops in raids).

While it is true about not knowing the details of the specifics of the BWA team, it really doesn't matter. What can be seen, by almost anyone, is the volume of major content patches and expansions that other AAA MMOs are putting out versus the paltry amount of content people are getting in SWTOR. Example 1: Assuming that they do indeed deliver a full Operation (5 bosses) by the end of the year, that will give them One Operation (Raid) and ZERO Flashpoints (dungeons) released over THREE years. In that same time frame, one of their competitors (and it isn't even WoW) will have released 18 NEW raids and 30 NEW dungeons. So in SWTOR you got five new challenge bosses compared to the competitor giving you 136 new bosses (more than 25 times more content just for group play). It isn't even remotely close how little content people are getting for their money in SWTOR. And that is just on a small section of group content, we won't go into how they have truly expanded the game with 5 new character classes, a new character race, flying, swimming and diving, over 1,600 new quests, 5 new PvP modes, 11 mini-games and six new full zones (not corridors called planets). Example 2: Strongholds released with 4 types and a further one was added with SoR for a grand total of five. A competitor is launching their housing expansion next month and they have 41 housing types just from the get go. Example 3: Cause we have to have this for comparison - WoW. In last three years 19 new dungeons and 6 new raids. Notice my Number 1 example which isn't WoW. If you want to take on the big boy, you at least need to try and compete with them. I asked this on another forum and will repeat it here: Just how much leeway do you give to the Star Wars IP when it comes to an MMO? In the last three years quite a few AAA MMOs have produced literally 50 TIMES the content SWTOR has for the money people are paying. Just when are people supposed to say enough is enough?

Honestly, I don't believe they even have that long. In all my years on MMO gaming I have never seen (except for maybe the NGE) a developer so dead set on ignoring such massive negativity around a game change. I have a feeling, this number was handed to them sometime in calendar Q3 last year and, being that they have been woefully behind their competition in content production (it is so bad that their competition has literally put out almost 50 TIMES the content this game has), they had to resort to a grind/RNG gimmick to try and get more subs and keep them longer. Additionally, EA has spent three quarters talking about the declining revenue in the game. They are setting it up so when they pull the plug, they can say the game has been on constant decline and no longer warrants any investment. If I were a betting man, I would bet that this announcement is coming sometime in 2017 and this title will not live to see the end of 2017. Warhammer Online was announced for closure on Sept. 18, 2013 and was closed on Dec. 18, 2013. I really believe this game is now that close.

I hope so. Our entire guild is done and this announcement just capped about any chance of getting it back. Just for the record, you do realize that any other AAA MMO title you moved to literally gets 50 TIMES more content in a year added than SWTOR? Actually, SWTOR is No. 1 among triple AAA MMOs in only one thing - how little content they provide to a paying customer base. I won't even provide comparisons here because it will just illustrate how shockingly little content is being released in this game. But for one example. In the time you are going to get One full new Operation (3 years) a competitor has released 18 New raids (12 8-man and 6 24-man) and 30 NEW dungeons (4 man content) bringing their in game total to 59 dungeons, 18 8-man raids, and 9 24-man raids. And this isn't even WoW and that is just what they have put out in 3 years compared to SWTORs five.

I would say it is worse. EA pulled the plug on Warhammer Online while it still had 50k subs and no IP replacement (i.e., no other Warhammer game in development). SWTOR has it worse because EA has quite a few Star Wars IP games in development - none of which are in the hands of BioWare. Very soon, they will not need SWTOR to make a buck on the Star Wars IP. In fact, I would bet that if ME: Andromeda does not meet sales expectations, you are going to be hearing about another studio brand folded in or out, in the EA umbrella.

Two things that need to be added. First, Square Enix recognized they had the wrong guy in charge of FFXIV, so they began to fix the situation by firing him and putting Yoshida-san in charge. That was the first step to recovery. The second step was a deep and heartfelt connection with the community to let them know they were going to fix things and give the players what they really wanted. So, they followed the advice of the CEO of T-Mobile who said, "The secret to success in business is to listen to your customers and give them what they want. Then, don't be surprised if you do that you make a lot of money." SWTOR has been plagued with development arrogance since the earliest betas. They were warned in beta about lack of end game content, but they thought they knew better. Just like now, they were warned not to let this atrocious GC System go live, they ignored that to, because they always know better, and now they are paying the price. SWTOR should have been in the market position that FFXIV is in now. But it has never had someone competent or caring enough leading it. For some reason, this title has always had unjustified egos making the decision. And so it has been a game that has survived, rather than thrived and grown.

Just want to add something here. Whether people are still positive about the game or negative is not what is important. Sure, many who played for several years and have finally unsubbed because the changes made to the game it is no longer fun for them may, of course, be negative. But, at the end of the day, we should all be concerned with EVERYONE enjoying the game. Because the more people that do, the more that sub, and a game grows. Here is where those that are still positive about the game need to be careful. I am willing to bet EA has no established a threshold of minimum subs to keep this game going. Basically, it is have this number or higher or we are pulling the plug. That being said, last year there were estimates that SWTOR has an average of about 14,000 concurrent subscribers. Estimates range on how many concurrents convert to actual total players from 10% of the base to 25% of the player base. I guess that is going to vary based on day and time, but let's give SWTOR the benefit of the doubt for this example and say 10%. So, last year prior to 4.0 when this article came out, there were an average of 14,000 concurrent, and assuming that represents 10% of the player base, that would mean 140,000 players - of all types not just subs. Since that time, the player base has continued to decline regularly. The 5.0 system, more than trying to keep players subbed for longer with the grind and RNG gimics, is also trying to convert F2P players to subs. Unfortunately, a lot of them are just going to leave. They didn't have the desire to sub before and the GC system is definitely not having the desire now. Last year, with the 4.0 launch most of the servers actually reached standard of weekends (according to TORstatus) and a few even went heavy. With 5.0 most of the servers stayed light with a few going standard. So, let's say we are down to maybe 5,000 to 6,000 concurrents that are subs now. That isn't a big bleed from 2016 but it means there are mainly 50k-60k subscribers left. Still okay right? EA pulled the plug on Warhammer Online with 50k active subscribers left. So, while EA may not have declared a shut down date, I have a feeling they have declared a minimum number of subs to keep the title going. The desperation of the team in Austin is starting to emphasize this point.

People did give real feedback when 5.0 GC System was first announced. They gave real feedback when it was on the PTS. They gave real feedback right after launch. BioWare chose to ignore the majority of that feedback. Like 99.9% of it. So the result is a lot of frustrated players who feel as if they are banging their head on the wall. Honestly, when you are paying for something, you shouldn't have those feelings. So I would contest the current negativity on the forums can be laid at BWs feet for feeling they can simply ignore a good portion of their paying customers.

I am not so sure at this point. EA seems to be putting very little investment into this title lately. It is obvious, by the amount of content they have covered coming in the next year, there is a small team working on this at this point. If EA holds true to their common MO, then this is usually an indicator that this is closer to done than most know. I personally believe EA has already made the decision on the termination date and the marching orders are to try and capture as much revenue during that period as possible with the least amount of expenditure.

Super data is full of BS and selling people reports with a bunch of half-baked perceptions. Not like they would be the first research company to do so. They do NOT have the data on SWTOR revenue, partnership or not. EA is too big a company to do something so stupid as illegally reporting financials. Yes folks, to give those numbers to a third party firm and not disclose them individually to your investors in financial reports is in violation of federal law. Normally, these companies could compile sales through Amazon, Steam, etc. to bring that kind of information together. But when a product makes its revenue solely on sub fees and cash shop sales, and doesn't individually report this information, there is NO WAY a third party can know the numbers at all. As we say in the corporate world, what they are selling is SWAG (silly wild-a** guesses).

I don't know. Yes, James was responsible directly for a lot of the problems in the 1.x era when he was producer and creative director on the title. However, he has moved up the chain and while SWTOR is still under him, he has a lot of other responsibilities as well. I personally believe this is Ben's direct baby. When he wrote that letter about all the exciting things coming, blah, blah, blah, that was him talking. I think he had a vision for what he thought would make this MMO great again (a return to solo story). The timing of the change in focus is too coincidental to not think he was involved. Now that the subs started to crash, he was probably getting heat from the upper echelon at EA and came out with this desperate method (GC system) of trying to retain subs. The issue is, he was completely wrong. I mean, after all, it is the first video game he has worked on and the first title he has ever been in charge of. I think, because of intense internal pressure, in all honesty, he is not thinking clearly (or the better way to say this is he doesn't have enough experience to know what to do). So he goes forward with this half-baked system in desperation and, in an effort for him to save face with the company, he is going to destroy a good product in the process. Won't be the first guy in this industry to take a title down with them in flames.

It of course will vary from company to company, but generally Producer in the video game world is a fancy, hollywood-like title for a Product Manager. As you know, in some companies they wield tremendous decision power (like at Square Enix on FFXIV) where as Ben may be just a meat shield for someone higher up. I don't know, but in general, product managers usually always have a lot of sway if they know what they are doing, even to higher ups. Because Ben and team do not play or use their own product however, I imagine that have no capacity to intelligently discuss the wants and needs to do the things that would help the product grow (isn't that what companies have product managers for in the first place).

That would be James Ohlen. According to his linked in profile, he is in charge of the whole kit and kaboodle.

Um, they got a new Producer in August just before 4.0 in December. He's the same guy that told use "RNG was exciting"

You know what, now you are just presenting fiction as fact. Numerous report less than 500k huh? A direct quote from that article pointing to what industry estimates are in July 2015: "Estimates place FFXIV at around 800,000 to 1.2 million subscribers after a one million subscriber bump from February's announced total of four million, averaging at around 9,000 new players per day over four months." That statement directly contradicts what you are saying. In addition, they have added another 1 million unique subscribers since that time. So, since you want everyone to believe it is not as high as those industry estimates in that article. Nor that they have 64 servers today to support the population, have just closed 20 of them to new character creation due to full server capavities, are talking about adding more servers, and the CEO of SE claims that FFXIV accounts for just under 50% of their $1.7 billion in revenue. It is time for you to post those mythical links to numerous industry sources that says subs are 500k or less. Of course, you are going to go back to that one article you have posted, taken what they wrote out of context, and say that is your proof.

Bless is looking absolutely gorgeous. But, to your point, it is an Asian MMO and we know how well their core design elements usually go over in the West.

See, here is one of the great things about EA having the Star Wars IP. They have quite a few Star Wars games coming out over the next three years. SWTOR isn't the only way to get a Star Wars fix.