Those critical hits you mention are not on average as you use relics+biochem buff probably an expertise buff too. But still these are too high for people geared well enough. I'm full BM (with 2 pieces missing) and after this patch i rarely, VERY rarely crit hit with my opener 5k, with relics+adrenal ( actually i dunno if i have managed that yet). On a light armor assassin having -150 expertise than mine my crit was 3.8k without relic/adrenal. Now it's the Acid blade ticks we base our dmg on, if those crit well we are good. If not, next time we 'll have more luck

You wouldn't get an infiltrator in pvp grps either unless you had a stealthgrp which was lame ... . Anyway, people say this is a grp based game. Other people say it's rock papers scissors. Tbh, nowadays, most mmos try to reach the concept every class can beat others which is almost unreachable. At this point, is why i'm pointing out those weaknesses. I would be more than happy if this was another rock-paper-scissors game, but guess what, this won't happen and that is because too many play sorcerers just for the lighting effects and don't bother understanding how things work. Hell, there were even sorc be4 this nerf that clearly stated this wasn't needed. Those 3shot deaths by operatives weren't doable in equal geared players who knew how to react, i know this from my personal experience. Anyway, i'm fine with the current state of ours, I tried it yesterday, I could see the differences and I could manage very good on 1on1 situations, but the burst dmg we contributed in grp fights is no more... To set an example for you, me and a marauder went for a target in fight, a sage particularly. While i opened on him and scratched him barely for the bubble to fade during my rotation, he force leaped onto him and he started building up his burst. Luckily my debilitate (stun wasn't on cd) so i managed to keep him there while the marauder finished him off doing his 5k smash dmg. I was like lol. Yes we can be of use, assuming we get to unsuspicious targets and targets that don't get focused healed..

Actually the probe you mention is on a cd, you mention it as if it is anytime 3k (this is also a critical too btw) ranged 30m dmg you're doing. Yeah ok, you plant the explosive probe plus you get a crit of 2k with a casting ranged ability. This combo is good for finishing targets trying to get away. But that contributes so little to a grp fight you mentioned above if your probe is on cd. I agree on 1on1 we are very good, but you started the grp fight thingy and i'm just pointing out the flaws we have and why we ain't eligible for a slot in a premade. On nightmare mode, bosses have more life. Thus, it's better for an Ops leader to choose the class with more overall dmg to avoid enrage timers. Taken into consideration you're on progress. If you're full rakata ofc you 'll do ok than another one with tionese/columi gear, simple logic is simple. I 'm having fun, sure, but I don't wanna be the cause of wipes for my whole operation grp because of my lower sustained pve dps, do you?

On low geared victims yes,always, but that's not a factor. How much do you hit with your opener on equal-geared victims, without relic+adrenal? I 'll tell you, 3.8k max 4k if critical, on light armor that is.

Yes you can do fine in PVE but not as good as a merc/commando now. Having brought down EV doesn't mean anything. Was it on nightmare? I doubt it. Our out of stealth dps is laughable at most. Premade grps won't choose a sc/op especially after the nerf coz they know our capabilities and how much we contribute. They cant rely on op/sc. Yes, we do have a stun as many other classes have, we even have snare (which even ranged classes have), the problem is that 3k crit you mention ain't a big deal, not when another class can build-up burst up to 5k dmg. Using medpacks isn't class restricted, so why do you even mention it? Going to the corner and heal yourself, ok I give you that, but i'd rather have another one dps capable and less squishy than you, that can reach targets and close gaps faster than you.. Sry facts are facts.. edit: just saw that you mentioned ranged attacks dealing 3k crits. Erm, no that's not happening, unless you're sniper/gunslinger. We can? Have you unlocked a special ability that the rest of us haven't? I assume you're talking about evasion, that doesn't make you invulnerable at all, Only physical damage hits such as weapon damage, anything else can bypass this effect, tech/force dmg for example. You are rank 61 now, you should show evidence and proof stating the facts not just mentioning things. A coin has two sides always.

Yup an operative who knows his class and doesn't make cluless facts out of hims mind. *surprise

You sir should be ashamed to post that on the forums after the nerf. Go back, work around and practice, because bringing down classes to match your incompetence....sorry it won't do.

What a misleading info... There's no way you're getting that even if your victim is naked. Well you can actually get that number , on tatooine ofc on low lvls.

erm, you can actually look up for the abilities of each class in torhead and make a guide yourself if you want, assuming you have time. Waiting for people to respond won't do the job or will take some time..

Acid blade ticks are our secret weapon to sustain dps same as shadow/assasins. When those crit they hurt.

Who are those people saying BM hitting for 6-7k? lol Right before today's patch my biggest crit was 6k yes with relic+adrenal popped on a low geared player. That's very ordinary to other classes that don't require stealth to reach those numbers, but built-up burst. So, don't exaggerate that much. And btw, stunlocking means nothing in a grp based scenario, if your burst dps role isn't a burst dps anymore. You may stun and re-stun him, but he will always be healed now. I'm sorry you had to use biochem+relics to get those 1time numbers and record them on that video, but it's nothing as all can do that. The problem lies with Biochem and relic buffing. Hidden strike was getting talent critical dmg boosted. The power you 're getting from say a relic is added initially and gets also boosted by that talent. This gave sc/op a huge advantage and a ''free'' kill every now and then assuming the player-victim was average. So, before stating something, you should at least look up some info. And fyi, BM with -20% dmg nerf on light armor is 3.8k (critical) .

Btw that said about the buffs is true. The bonuses from bio buffs etc are calculated initially and get bonuses from talents. For example a stat stim would give 120 stat but with the passive talent stat boost it gives 136. Same goes for all the bio buffs... An ability that gets talent buffed used with a power relic/bio adrenal gets a lot stronger. As that e.g. power from adrenal is granted also dmg bonus. I mean its (base power + adrenal bonus) * talent dmg bonus instead of (base power) * talent dmg bonus + adrenal power bonus.

Hey people STOP making fun out of poor operatives! Enough is enough. You 've got them nerfed down, you don't need to be mean...

Sorc is overpowered. Jugg is overpowered. Merc is overpowered. Uhh see what i did there?

Pvp nerf also. The stun-lock you mention as buff barely matters in grp-based fights. Thus, you might actually double stun someone but the dmg output is now healable and less than other built-up bursts currently in game.

Sadly yes, but the same goes to the oposite. Op got me to 40-50% life now what do i do? Why bother when i've lost so much life?? This is ridiculous! They didn't nerf them at all!

Just mouthpiece. Care to enlighten us what you exactly mean, and what you propose to change this "OPness" without breaking a class or the balance? Thank you for your creative post.

I 'll tell you the nerf difference, today my hidden strike crits for 3.8k on an assassin with expertise 550 expertise. I'm full battlemaster but 2 pieces with 698 exp. This was the highest damage output i could do with an ability, since Hidden Strike had the highest ''score'' of them all. And fyi a marauder can burst more now with smash doing 5k crits... But guess what, it's not the op that opens you the problem, its the other 2 additional people hitting you. But i take it people won't be happy and aren't willing to explore strategy/tactics to encounter situations like these.

Can you please make that more clear? Ok you don't use CC break, the operatives gets you down to 0% hps in 4seconds. You want people to look upon your post and take it as a proof? What kind of gear do you have? Did you have ur bubble on? Are you a healer or a dpser? Did you spec the blind talent for bubble? What level are you? What kind of gear did that operative have? What rotation did he use? Were you away from your team, without trinket to use? Was that before today's patch? Was that before biochem patch? You think you're a sorc and you're the god of thunder?

i really laugh at sorcs not knowing how to play....even after the nerf there's no way you can get 6k crit dmg from an opener unless u have 0 expertise. Btw 6k with a bubble on? right.. Marauders now do more dmg from Operatives, their smash ability can crit 5k without relics or anything. Ops need relics and adrenal for that, believe me i'm full Battlemaster but 2 pieces. I have no problem with this patch today, but i dont think i have fought vs equal geared people yet. Non-crit opener on heavy armor =1036 dmg (my exp=698 , his was around 450), Crit-2.1k just an example our so called burst dps is not so much burst now. My crits on light armors vary from 4 to 4.5k for the opener that is.

bump...

My point is not about stacking but the buffs initially counted as "basic" and getting boosted by talent passives.... Ability X’s damage ----> Apower*1.2 Initial affection Ability X’s damage ---> (Apower+Bpower)*1.2 Buffed state Ability X’s damage ---> Apower*1.2 + Bpower (How it should be) This goes even higher with critical damage bonuses etc.

I think all those problems with relics/biochem still remain. Bonuses provided by those are added in a weird way. For example say you use a relic with 380 power and you have a talent that adds 20% dmg bonus to a skill. The way it is (needs testing) : You pop power relic+ power adrenal and you get +600 power. This buff is not added by a flat amount to your final damage output but on the contrary it goes something like this --> (X power + Y power ) * 1.2 and then that's added to your overall , should be X power* 1.2 + Y power. X power is your normal power, Y is the buff one. Numbers are just an example to make you understand my logic. So, in other words any buff you get, is not added in the end of the formula, but at the begining getting passive bonuses from talents. Atm, it's tested that armor adrenal and stat stims work that way. So, if this goes for the relics you realize how broken it is to some abilities that get severely boosted by talents... It's not the classes that need fixing, it's the buffing system, or talent tweaking.

I think all those problems with relics/biochem still remain. Bonuses provided by those are added in a weird way. For example say you use a relic with 380 power and you have a talent that adds 20% dmg bonus to a skill. The way it is (needs testing) : You pop power relic+ power adrenal and you get +600 power. This buff is not added by a flat amount to your final damage output but on the contrary it goes something like this --> (X power + Y power ) * 1.2 and then that's added to your overall , should be X power* 1.2 + Y power. X power is your normal power, Y is the buff one. Numbers are just an example to make you understand my logic. Atm, it's tested that armor adrenal and stat stims work that way. So, if this goes for the relics you realize how broken it is to some abilities that get severely boosted by talents... It's not the classes that need fixing, it's the buffing system, or talent tweaking.

I think all those problems with relics/biochem still remain. Bonuses provided by those are added in a weird way. For example say you use a relic with 380 power and you have a talent that adds 20% dmg bonus to a skill. The way it is (needs testing) : You pop power relic+ power adrenal and you get +600 power. This buff is not added by a flat amount to your final damage output but on the contrary it goes something like this --> (X power + Y power ) * 1.2 and then that's added to your overall , should be X power* 1.2 + Y power. X power is your normal power, Y is the buff one. Numbers are just an example to make you understand my logic. Atm, it's tested that armor adrenal and stat stims work that way. So, if this goes for the relics you realize how broken it is to some abilities that get severely boosted by talents... It's not the classes that need fixing, it's the buffing system, or talent tweaking.