Sorry there Francis...when I see cheats, they are in premade groups. Who has ever seen a solo cheat? Why not? You can not exist because they will just hide behind you. "we want to play with friends"(friends who all have +17k HP....where are the 14k premades?) How often when someone posts video of a cheat, is the cheat's name in red? Why aren't people on the same side reporting the cheating player......maybe it's because it's their boy? While maybe not all premades are cheats, they do "optimize" FOTM builds and exploit temporary advantages in builds til nerfs come out......all of which I find to be extremely poor sportsmanship......I guess "you people" would just classify it a opportunism. But it's less about your character and the way you play, and more about which class or class combos are naturally harder to handle that would give you an unfair advantage over others who won't reroll. Either way, I wouldn't piss on either of you if you were on fire....so excuse me for not caring enough to discriminate between the different types of premades.

One server....all the QQ threads on the main PVP pages come from one server? No we are all having the same experience and that's why there are multiple threads started.... but within each thread are the "premade" people who say L2PNOOB, Roll FPS,UMAD...do you see them? huh, is this to me? I'm top DMG, top kills, top killing blows....i look for the guy with the highest HP and will not stop til one of us is dead(hate those rollers with big gear)

I unsubbed, look at my OP Why am I posting? I am stating the reason for the UnSub, and stating what I believe could have kept me playing. Last night was ridiculous, and All my "generalizations" were true.....hidden/kiting Operative healers, Jugs and mauraders(FOTM)..trash talk, griefing...glitching, hacking, speed running, magic multi-leap-pull ball carriers. The one time I get that elusive operative healer who never dies to ~10% HP...fall down glitch magically 20m away, then LOS, back to 75% by the time I can get into LOS. I recognize the names night in night out....I can either re-roll on another server, or another game....I am choosing the later. I PUG, we will usually have 7 because the 8th didn't click okay....then 2 mins in we are down to 4-5 as people quit over and over again. Is this healthy for a game...I don't think so. Would my PUG team have quit if they were playing another PUG? Yet people don't see the problem of Premades killing the PUG population and therefore killing the game. I must be a genius if others can't see it.

how difficult is this to understand? MOST PEOPLE DONT DO PREMADES (seriously, a team of 8 pre will dismantle 50+ PUGS over a night) Your premades cause people to quit.( perceived or real imbalance exploiting FOTM and Hacks) Think about a GANG in the HOOD.....they are only 20 strong and the neighborhood has 1,000 people in it. But the gang causes all the problems, they have the illegal guns(hacks), Drugs(STIM,STIM,STIM), they have the coordination to abuse individuals, ETC Could the 1,000 people make their own GANG and kill the original GANG...sure, but most just leave the neighborhood, or wait for the COPS (BW) to do something about it. In short, the Premades kill MMOs....solo's quit playing, then the group cancer rolls to another game to infect...killing that one as well. Vicious Vicious cycle.

In my OP I said synergy read again....I didn't change anything, i was only repeating what I already said because you seemed to have missed it. which means that people "HAVE TO" Group....to even have a chance...so IYO BW should remove "SOLO QUE" because those people are just wastes of space. Do you see how the reverse thinking Sucks? I posted another thread a few days back suggesting that they have PVP only skills that break up premades (AOE Energy/mana drains), (ability bar shuffle: rotational key binders, button spammers), X/Y axis inverter, and other Chaos inducing skills that break routines. My desire is to balance Premade vs PUG by removing OP synergies.....where group or not...it's about individual ability.

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

so you think it's common to try to use exploits? Premades types did the Ilum valor farming, they are cheats. Again just google search SWTOR Hacks....what's the name of the site that comes up first? Please think about that, and understand exactly how they are a cancer to MMO gaming.

lol, i just went through your post history You really like to jump in on anti-premade chat....any specific reason? You support Premades, tell others L2P to if they can't take out premade groups all the while talking about how you can kill 3 healers with your tank. Yeah, thanks for your input.

I understand what you are saying but you are missing the key Issue: MOTIVATION The premade players become premade to win...win is their only goal, win at all costs Like the Steroids in Baseball, it's about success...that's all...don't believ the other crap it's all smoke and mirrors trying to hide their MOTIVATION. This Motivation makes it okay in their minds to hack and exploit as well. that's were you ideal misses what the premade mentality will do They will NOT QUE GROUP...they will synchronize SOLO ques...because they want to God mode PWN NOOBS...they don't want competition...why in Open world is it 5-6 vs 1-2? The GANG thug mentality is what a premade is....there is no NOBILITY in them....why do you think most are Sith to begin with? It speaks volumes.

get some new material How many premades even have a concealment operative? Putz, those run as healers now.

yeah, I got full BM, I got 2 of the +41 expertise crystals in place..... I kill 1 vs 1....it's the scrubs with their "HELP ME WITH THIS GUY" when they 2-3 my defenseless Gunslinger like they are so cool.(Oh your pyro/Jugg/tanksin combo can beat a Slinger, such ******es) the only matches I(my side) lose in hutball are 1-1(great games) or 6-0(premade bull crap) In evitably many players on the premade teams are moving MUCH faster, and appear to be glitching all over the map. Voidstar 90% of my losses are 1-0(pre-made zerg fest, stealth exploit, unkillable(w/o 4 dps focus) kiting healers) Civil war the losses are 320-0 against the stupid freaking premades with their exploits of team to keep others from capping by using their timed 99% mitigation so that others can speed bike down.....Speed rushers for interference who can stealth and continue to interfere(sleep dart spamming punks).....Tank mid who eats all dmg and kills the enemies energy bars...Stealthed healers hiding on the sides....and tank sins popping CDs killing and kiting and hiding.

You don't get it....I don't want to "HAVE TO" work with a team. Play with friends, i don't care, I just don't think that you should benefit from it.

lol, okay Luke Skywalker- alone, no father no mother, no sister....aunt and uncle dead...gets trained by Obi Wan to use the force to face Vader 1vs1 Han Solo- had a companion but more like a pet that did no dmg, Solo killed Greedo 1 vs 1 Bobo Fett- solo Bounty Hunter, catching people solo Vader- didn't send the Storm Troopers in for aggro then jump out of stealth and back stab anyone....he didn't KITE and yell "heal me" This game is based on Story ie Character development. Now look at New Star Wars...bunch of CGI, 100 jedi arena fighting robots, all these crap acrobatic moves (leap), speed run(where was that >New Hope?), abuse of force push(knocking over 20 robots), blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada complete CRAP Best part of the new star wars were the solo 1 vs 1 fighting scenes(yoda vs dooky, Maul vs Jin, Anikan vs Obi) Where are the Premades in Star Wars Lore? Fine. maybe premade groups must all be Troopers. That way they can't synergize with other classes really Devs..is this Star Wars or Not?

It would just make more premades as it breaks the seal in cooperation. "Hey "gandalf" you should run the conceal spec without the hidden strike knockdown. Open with hiddenstrike, then debilitate, and I will come in with my debilitate and we can chain stun people for 8 secs without filling resolve" I have no real issue with in-game chat. But I DO NOT want build synergies, and exploits that knock balance out of whack.

Yeah, the Horror , I mean it's MMO right, you are supposed to work "together" Anyone play RIFT when they instituted "Group Ques"? And all your "premades" decided it was better to synchronize solo ques so that they could "premade" vs PUG again? Yeah.....appears that the "premades" are FULL OF S....they don't want competition, they want to be GODS...and they "work together"...more like scheme/cheat together to roll others. Don't believe me? All the Hacks="solo players"? This is the funniest thing to me...you cheats.....If I google SWTOR Hacks....what is the name of the site that tops the page? ELITE PVPS This right there tells you of the mindset of Premades, it's not competetion...its the desire to make it NO COMPETITION! Oh now I'm going to hear..."yes, maybe some.....but I and my group"....just shut up. You want to be Gods...and will strive to be in situations where your dreams come to fruition. Cheat,scheme...all fair in your minds.

please stay here and do not go to any other game.....deal?

it takes just a few weeks or less at 50 to get full BM..the difference isn't that big after. it's more about having the right builds/ACsin your group....if you don't have a healer, you won't win, if you don't have a guard spammer you won't win....if you don't have the DPS to take out those going after the guarded healer....you probably would still win.

the toons of premades work with each other to exploit builds and exploit the synergies that they produce. This makes it where you have to get a group, re-roll, re-spec. you ever run across the fire pits in Hutball, toons getting speed burst, pushed, pulled, grappled from mid to goaline in approx 6 secs flat? How about a couple toons at each turret with DEF CD's/stealth that make it near impossible to kill both in enough time to cap a turret before the 1st one take the speeder back to interrupt cap? While yes...Pugs can do this too, they aren't organized by BUILDs and build synergy. As Healer am I guaranteed to have someone in my PUG group that will guard me....will a solo tank even que? That's why I said that I want to basically remove any and all build synergies. Just solo....take less dmg/deal less dmg...healing is sacrfice (HP Shift, not just endless reservoir)

what about older games like gauntlet? Warrior, wizard, Elf, and Valkyrie.....red,blue, green, yellow did it matter really how many Wars you had, or your team's composition? Nope, pick a toon, and you get a color..play and have fun....if you suck with a Warrior, you'd suck with an Elf. a premade vs PUG in the Gauntlet scenario has exactly what advantage in PvP or 4 vs 4? They communicate and maybe all hit the Elf first? Fine....but the WAR isn't getting shielded by the wizard and taking all the DPS of the PUG group....you catch my drift?

I love this...yeah "better". Dual stationary healers, healing though dmg....."better" :sigh:

"Well, bye!" I quit, Premades 1-Me 0 Is there no way to design a game where players can play with each other w/o OP benefits from the synergy between classes? Guarding healers, chain stun locks, friendly pulling, group speed burst,tandem sleep darts,..etc,etc....exploited skills. Is it that hard to see how PvE skills will be abused in PvP? Maybe i should just play FPS's...head shot's kill..EVERYONE..but this Jug+healer taking on 4 dps...is IMO a completely broken and abused model. Excuse me, but aren't more people playing Solo (solo WZ ques) than Group ques(premade)? So PVP devs design PvP where group play trumps all? Seems Bass Ackwards. How about tanks can only guard themselves? balance around take less dmg/do less dmg....take more dmg/do more dmg Maybe Healers' Healing should come directly from their own HP...let them have 31 pt skills that give them +500 endurance or 20k HP, but every time that they Heal it comes directly from their pool and they only can heal others, only dmg they do replenishes their own HP. (just a thought) In my view, PvP is broken if 8 random ACs =/= 8 other random ACs I don't exactly know why people say that there shouldn't' be 1 vs 1 balance without synergies, besides their own bias...But I've got too little time to waste on FOTM builds and tag teaming stunlocks. see yall around..for maybe 46 more days. but I don't want to see another 2Jug/2OP healers with 4 assassins or marauders picking up the slack....from the boards, I can see I am not alone. From the ques and quits, i can see that I am not alone. So go ahead and make your snide comments, how everyone from 14 to 60 y/o should be playing in premades to have "fun", or whatever ridiculous justification you have concocted to justify broken. I don't care anymore, i'm out.

FIFY 10 char

I'm not spamming stuns, once you nut shot leap you should be able to kite.

is it ranking players as the play so that they know how to break players up for server mergers, PvP ratings, and that kind of stuff? Is the gap in between 1.2 and rated a part of design and not just them being "dumb"?

I don't mind stuns, like flashbang that breaks on dmg I just don't like the chain stuns that keep you taking dmg for 4-8 secs that don't break on dmg. Does every class have one of those as well? That force choke that does dmg and stuns you as others are whacking away on you like a pinata.....are really balanced stuns? Now if the next guy does the same to you, you are just taking it for ~8 secs.....a flashbang would last one hit