[Bounty Hunter healing NEED a buff!]

normally i prefer not to call for nerfs...

 

but from looking through various threads it looks as though the problem isn't that BH healing is particularly weak...

 

its that sorc healing is overly good in comparison.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

We live in a world where everyone gets a trophy. When these people find themselves in a situation where they might lose, they quit. I'd say that we created this mess as a society.

 

Losing teaches far more than winning does. When people learn to embrace losing as a learning experience, then perhaps we'll see fewer quitters.

 

in the real world losing doesn't mean getting a trophy and a thanks for participating.

 

it means losing your wife, kids, house, job and in extreme cases life.

 

losing is bad, no ifs ands or buts about it.

 

in my mind, the pro-penalty folks who are saying you should stick around, win or lose... because its not about whether you win or lose, but how you play the game, are the ones who are deluding themselves.

 

losing teaches you lessons yes... but here's the kicker, winning does as well. and, both in real life and in-game, winning is far less painful and has far more appealing consequences than losing. yes, sometimes you will lose, no matter what you do.

 

but the people who act as though losing is ok, even when you have the option not to have to endure the loss,... they're the people who will find themselves dealing with far more BS than the people who avoid losing as much as possible and only fight the battles they can win.

 

they're the people who come to the forums demanding that there be a penalty on the people who wisely pick their battles and don't waste time and effort on lost causes. after all, what you might call a personal crusade, i might call a worthless waste of time.

 

want an example from real life? do you stick around in a dead-end job, just because you started it, so you should finish it? after all, it doesn't matter if you get that promotion, it only matters if you do the best you can, right? no... of course you won't. you'll get the hell out of there the first chance you get and find a job where you actually have a chance at advancement.

 

real life demands that you learn how to pick your battles... the ones worth spending time fighting, and the ones worth leaving alone so you an fight another day.

 

im sorry, but i haven't yet seen any logical counter arguments from the pro-penalty folks to convince me that their desire to put a penalty on quitters stems from anything but a self-centered desire to make me support them while not giving me anything of equal value in return for my time and effort. until you can show me a logical and rational reason why i should agree with you... im going to continue to only fight the battles i deem worth my time and avoid the ones that aren't.

 

if a penalty goes in effect... ill do one of two things. either A) ill afk my way through the matches that before i would have just left, in which case you have zero chance of getting someone who wants to put in an effort to take my spot (the matches worth my time will get my participation, but i can assure you... nobody posting in this thread in favor of a penalty is worthy of that), or B) i just won't pvp, in which case the people who are willing to reciprocate my efforts in pursuit of victory won't be able to benefit from our mutual efforts.

 

so bravo, your selfish desires will not only hurt you, but also hurt other players who aren't quite so self-centered as yourself.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Calling quitters babies is not an insult. Quitting is an immature, childish behavior. Nor did I name anyone. It is bad behavior and needs to be dealt with in every MMO. Read this thread and you will not see a greater amount of nonsense.

 

There are people who want specific WZ q's, Q.s for gear level and q's for premades. This is not a valid intelligent opinion. If you did all that there would be 24 Q's. That is impossible to do without insane waits.

 

Babies only care about their own issues so they don't even acknowledge the other babies. So the baby who wants separate Q's for each WarZone thinks they need to only triple the Q's. He ignores the other baby who quits because he wants a separate Q for premades. He ignores the baby who quits because of BM gear being too good who wants seperate Q's for gear/expertise.

 

This is the definition of an immature unreasonable baby. They offer no solution for anything but themselves, they want what they want or they quit. Baby is actually kind of generous.

 

you call quitting an immature and selfish act.

 

i call demanding others change their definition of fun to fit into your personal philosophy immature and naive.

 

what i find funny is that your entire post here calls others selfish... yet the ENTIRE argument you support is based off of YOUR own selfish desires to force others to change to fit YOUR pre-conceived notion of fun.

 

nothing in any of the pro-penalty crowd's argument in this entire thread has said anything other than "IM tired of losing because you won't stay and help ME!"

 

simple question... what did you do to deserve my help? hmmm? or are you selfish enough to think that simply having the ability to queue up entitles you to my help whenever i happen to get dumped into a randomly selected match with you? if you are that selfish... you should also be supporting measures to penalize people who queue up and stay in the match but contribute nothing of worthwhile value towards winning as well... but i haven't seen a single pro-penalty person mention that yet.

 

if supporting measures that force others to think and act as you do isn't the definition of self-centered, im at a loss as to what is.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

I'm, honestly, not a hater but if your idea of fun ruins mine then I must take what steps I can to prevent that. One of these steps is to rant here .

 

Cheers, Lenroc!

 

P.S. Read my sig it's relevant for this thread!

 

hence why we're here in opposition to the pro-penalty folks

 

my idea of fun does not include being forced to waste my time in what i consider a completely un-fun lost cause.

 

like i said before, im in favor of no penalty. but... if i must be forced to endure fighting in a lost cause that i don't find fun... then the people who are advocating for a penalty for leaving, and thus ruining my fun by forcing me to either forgo pvp or be forced to play with them, should also be penalized as well.

 

in a nutshell... if im going to be penalized for ruining what other consider people fun, they should likewise be equally penalized for ruining what i consider fun.

 

live and let live... i don't demand the people who provoke me to leave early change their playstyle, i just leave them to fend for themselves and go my separate way. can you please do me the common courtesy of leaving me alone to find my enjoyment the way i prefer as well?

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Interesting take on the subject. Which begs the question, is just having a body in the WZ better than having one leave? If not, why worry with a penalty?

 

No it is not. Would you prefer a bot or afkr who will never contribute the entire match, start to finish... Or someone to leave and give you the chance to have someone more useful take his spot?

 

Id rather see no penalty at all, but if there must be one, make it apply equally to the people who cant win without being carried and the ones who refuse to carry others.

 

These selfish kids (yea, I flipped it around on you kids) who want to be carried to wins they cant earn without substantial time effort from other people get their way without being penalized fot not improving... If I must waste my time in lost causes trying to prop others up, shouldnt they be required to do something in return?

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Sadly for baddies like you the devs think you deserve a penalty for basically being selfish and one sided in your me me me attitude of I do what I want.

 

Obviously youre wrong, as they will permit players to play their class poorly (ie melee focused scoudrels using cover and ranged abilities primarily) despite the other members of the group doing their jobs correctly... Because its his style of play.

 

And lets leave aside the fact that the entire pro penalty crowds argument hinges on their own selfish desires... They want to win (well ignore the fact that the people left because the pro penalty folks couldnt manage to win on their own without depending on others in the first place).

 

Well also ignore the way you are selfishly wanting to impose a penalty on others without incurring one on your end for your inability to win (once again, if youd shown an aptitude for victory in the first place, this would be a moot point since other, more competent players wouldnt leave you to fend for yourself in that case)

 

Well also leave aside the fact that your resort didnt amount to anything more productive to this issue than the online equivalent of a kid screaming "im going to get my dad and hes gonna kick your ***"

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

to everyone saying its selfish to quit... you're dam right it is. i pay to play this game for my own personal enjoyment... it has nothing to do with your enjoyment.

 

people are allowed to do as they like, ive seen some of the people throwing out the selfish play in this thread also pop up in other threads (im thinking about one in particular about scoundrels who play like they're a gunslinger) saying "its their $15 a month, they can play the way they want." funny how that live and let live attitude only extends until it affects you personally...

 

well, im wasn't in here making demands that there be a system put in place that forces people to understand their class and the matches objectives before queuing up.

 

but ill tell you what, just to make things fair... you want to implement a deserter penalty? how about we put in a penalty for not doing something related to the objective every minute in the match, like attacking or healing the ball carrier or fighting on the turret or attempting to plant the bomb or something?

 

lets go ahead and take away their coms and give them a debuff and put them in "time-out" so they can have time to think about what they did wrong in their last match before they queue up again.

 

that'd be fair right? for all of you that want to punish people for leaving warzones that are lost causes, there should be a punishment for people who can't manage to even get close to the warzone's objective and winning as well.

 

or would putting blame where blame is due be too painful to people's fragile egos?

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Its a joke. People give up too easily and cant be bothered to fight back.

 

STOP LEAVING WARZONES AND MAN UP OR YOU'll NEVER GET BETTER.

 

As soon as one or two people leave, it screws up the general flow. I was in a game and we were loosing 2-0 in hutball. Came back to win 4-3. I've done this multiple times when people have actually TRIED.

 

Now tell me a game you're loosing isn't worth fighting for.

 

exception rather than the rule.

 

comebacks happen... but here's the rub.

 

you were losing already, thats why people left. the only reason you won in the end wasn't because you suddenly got better... it was because either a) the good players on the other team left... or B) players better than you took the spot of the people who left earlier.

 

either way... you contributed nothing to the win... sticking around would benefit me nothing.

 

for many of the people who bring up this point, i feel like when they win they shouldn't be all that proud. they either won because they got carried at some point in the match... or the other team was just that bad. like winning the special olympics... yea, you won, but you're still "special"

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

I think some people just need to realize that they aren't meant for the PvP aspects of [games]. They don't have the skin, mentality, resolve or dedication it takes to excel at it (i.e. "casuals"). Rather than understand the system in which they operate, and how to maximize their capabilities, they cry "imbalance" at the first sign of difficulty in hopes that the devs will listen and facilitate their ability to coast towards "success" in a casual manner.

 

From a business perspective it's probably a good idea. But for the integrity of the game overall it's terrible that casuals usually get their way. That's why so many companies are still trying to balance their games 8, 9, 10+ years later.

 

There is almost always some way to approach a problem that seems out of balance. Some solution. That's the craving of a true competitive player - finding solutions - and the bane of the casual player. There are exceptions, of course, but overall those issues that demand solutions have answers readily available if you're willing to figure it out.

 

It's okay to fail 1,000 times.

 

this is pretty much the reason i don't stick around in failing matches.

 

people tend to take the easiest path... if i thought my effort would pay off and the bad players would learn something, it'd be more worth my time. as it is though, i know they'll just hit the forums to complain until things are changed and all id be doing was carrying them to wins in the meantime.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

PvP in this game is VERY underdeveloped. Warzones are poor designed/tacky and gameplay is not very fun. Playing on a PVP server serves absolutely no purpose and the game is designed to keep each side away from each other. I play on a PVP server and recently rolled a new character, I am lv 41 and have NEVER seen an opposing player while leveling. World PvP/ilum is poorly designed/implemented and serves no purpose. There's no effective large scale PvP.

 

I know this is a new game and developing. But PvP is a major component of MMOs and I have been very dissapointed with PvP play in this game. It is lacking, to say the least.

 

all i can say is that it took blizzard a year to even implement pvp battlegrounds in their game... another 2 years to refine the first ranking system they had... a year to implement competitive pvp... and another year to refine that and include battlegrounds.

 

pvp takes time to get right, and if the world leader in mmo's right now is any indication, its very difficult to get right, even after years of working on it.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

so its a case of you have the advantage in that WZ and suck at the rest?

 

i do ok in the rest. not terrible, but not great either.

 

the other warzones are just fundamentally flawed in my opinion.

 

its more a case of i despise death match.

 

and huttball seems to be the less death match-centric warzone. hell, with a proper passing game you don't even need a healer to win huttball... which other warzone can you win with no healers on your team, when they enemy has healers?

 

void and ald you can't avoid having to kill people to accomplish the objectives. huttball, its more of a bonus, but its not essential to victory.

 

ald... there's very little strategy needed. zerg base A, get it, leave 1 defender to call in... zerg base B, hear inc... zerg inc'd turret... rinse repeat to victory. its all based on who has the bigger zerg or the better gear or got lucky and has more healers on their team... no real strategy needed.

 

and void... ugh, i just hate the concept of a match where the winner can be decided in the first half of the match... team A gets through door 1 only in round 1... you can be guaranteed they will lose because team B only needs to do the exact same thing in order to win in round 2.

 

edit: although i do like how you resorted right to insults rather than actually trying to develop a cogent response to the things im saying.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

jedi spec'd?

 

heh, juggernaut spec'd actually. which means i get huttball far more than anything else... gogo population imbalance.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Odd that it doesn't seem to occur to anyone that much of this would change when we can CHOOSE which WZ we play. I have never once left a Voidstar or Alderaan match. Huttball on the other hand... I leave all the time. Most of the time as soon as I can. I will stick around if it is a good team and I think we stand a fair chance at winning. But if it is a horribad team getting pwned, then forget it I am out.

 

I cannot stand Huttball. That is a personal preference, and will not change. And as long as I am FORCED to play it.. I will continue to leave at my descretion.

 

i actually find myself leaving more alds and voidstars than huttballs.

 

maybe its because i grew up playing sports and understand the concept of passing the ball... or that killing and dying matters far less in a well played huttball match than in any other warzone. personal opinion here... but death match is the least skill and strategy involved activity in any game ever made anywhere.

 

maybe its the fact that if you perform terribly in the first round of void you already know that the 2nd round will be a waste of time.

 

maybe its because ald reminds me too much of AB from WoW.

 

i dunno... but i prefer huttball over all the other warzones and id bet i have a higher win rate in that warzone than any other.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

This is the logic I love the most. Everyone sees themself as the "one decent player" among 7 other idiots.

 

But when you queue up and start losing a game, and 6+ people quit the WZ instantly...if you were all the "decent player among scrubs" that each of you thinks you are - thus giving you the sense of entitlement that makes you think you deserve a win - why were you losing to begin with? =D

 

that's actually a fair point.

 

all i can say is that its a team effort. sometimes you can have a team full of mvps who just don't work well together.

 

like i said somewhere else, i could care less what my individual score is if we lose. by extension, if we got a team full of elites who just don't work well together, and the result is a loss, well, then it might as well be a team full of noobs.

 

my gripe isn't with the bad players, its with teams that display a complete lack of coordination. just so happens that most times the losses are a result of bad players, because most good players innately know how to work with other like minded players.

 

bottom line ill take a lvl 10 who knows what he's doing over a lvl 50 in full bm gear that runs the ball into his own team's goal, if it means we'll win.

 

edit: and yes, i know the answer to that is to premade. trust me, im still looking for a group of people who i can work well with... people who don't just accept losing as something that is unavoidable sometimes (attitudes like that are the difference between being the best and being number 2).

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

If people left once the game was "unwinnable" I'd agree. The problem is, people leave the very instant the game isn't going their way.

ive been doing this long enough to recognize a lost cause early... many others have as well.

Huttball: Game starts, a minute in the other team scores, BAM 5 people leave. Rest of the game is often a steamroll since one team is just stuck with a cycle of people joining, seeing they're losing, leaving right away, repeat.

if i see my team throwing everything they got against the enemy team and getting steamrolled (this is assuming they're even paying attention to the objective in the first place)... me sticking around isn't going to help them... 1 decent player with 7 bad teammates against 8 coordinated players ends the same way as 7 bad players vs 8 coordinated players.

Alderaan: Game starts, each team gets one turret, then fights over the third. Team that doesn't get the third turret has half of their team quit instantly. Although with the tempo of this game and the way the rezzes work, this is is actually easy to salvage.

if during that same first few minutes of the match i hear "an enemy is unbeatable" 3 or 4 times... its a fair chance ill hear that another dozen times as my team throws itself at the enemy controlled turrets and fail to take them. again, not worth my time or effort.

Voidstar: Game starts, eventually the attackers plant a bomb, half of the defending team quits instantly, making it a steamroll since the newcomers will usually be stuck behind a rez wall or one door behind the battle.

if the enemy team plants the bomb within the first minute... lost cause. if it took my team the entire first round just to barely breach the 2nd door... lost cause.

I guess the way the daily/weekly quests work encourages people to do this, but damn. Most of these people probably queue up hoping to get lucky and join a game where they're already winning or something, or at least hope to get carried by a premade. Just quitting the very instant they're not getting their way is...well, it's just pretty sad.

some of us have limited time, or simply hate wasting our time. matches where there's a chance of winning are a different matter, but most of the time quitters leave the match because they see something that flips a switch in their head that tells them its a fail in the making. less experienced players are right less often, but more experienced players can recognize the warning signs of a wasted queue much more accurately.

 

yea, if they gave some sort of incentive to stay in lost causes, that would be different, but right now, i log in with a goal in mind, and that goal is not furthered by wasting my time in losing matches surrounded by mouth breathers with no coordination or concept of teamwork or objectives.

And yeah, that's another aspect of it. Oh, someone doesn't want to deal with the loss that they're at least part of causing, so they quit and let some other poor sucker take the queue and find himself in a losing game. Nice.

sorry, it sucks, but that's life. i ask nothing of others except that they put forth an effort when they're on my team... i don't expect anyone else to ask more of me. which means once im out of the team, what happens to the ones who remain is no longer my concern, just as what happens to me should be of no concern to them either.

If nothing else, the impact it can have on at least one - but probably as many as 8 - other players is a good reason to impose some sort of penalty for just quitting.

again, i owe them nothing. they're not my guildies or friends. they're merely an ends to a means... as i am to them. if they can't pull their weight, i have absolutely zero reservations about leaving them to their fate... just as they should have no reservations about leaving me behind if im not pulling my weight.

 

i won't begrudge them their decision, they've got to do whats in their own best interest, just as i do. like i said, i don't know them and owe them absolutely nothing more than what i get from them.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Only if losing is somehow painful to you or causes anguish...some of us just roll with it and enjoy playing.

 

losing should be painful. competition, true competition, depends on people despising the mere thought of losing.

 

if everyone is content with merely participating for the fun of it, the end result is perpetual mediocrity because there is no incentive or drive to get better.

 

i don't know about you, but i strive to always improve myself in whatever im doing, including my leisure activities. ill never accept 2nd best as being the pinnacle of achievement.

 

that's why i won't waste my time in clearly lost causes... but will put in the effort in a close match where both sides are evenly matched and its anybody's guess who will come out on top.

 

that's a challenge worthy of my time and effort... lost causes where defeat is inevitable are not.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

One thing is sure, if you lose and people start to leave and you turn it into a victory after others join , the players you are getting as replacements are better then the players that left. I hope this is clear for everyone w/o further explanations.

 

On the other hand is hard to judge a player's skill when he fights outnumbered solely on the fact that his underdog team is losing.

 

I also agree that the final objective of human competition is winning. But in order to win one have to compete and admit the possibility of defeat. Also the best champions out there are the ones that love what they do and they are not doing it just for the money.

 

im self-aware enough to know my limitations. there are times i get outplayed, no ifs and's or buts about it.

 

sure, those turn arounds after i left were because other players better than i showed up to take my place and were willing to carry the players who were worse than me.

 

not being the best doesn't bother me. knowing that the reason those turn arounds happened wasn't because the baddies got better, but because people better than myself took my spot... that's priceless.

[If I'm a BM trying to get my 3 daily wins, why would I stay if we're getting killed?]

im not risking anything, the reputation is more important than the WZ win...i win 9 out of 10 WZ's regardless

 

but no matter what when i join a WZ, win or lose its gonna take 3-4 imps to take me down, im gonna make there life hell. my team might not ever do more than 150k damage but im gonna make sure i do 400k+ and kill tons of imps even in a losing effort, im gonna make sure that every single imp says "oh shiz its him", thats what pvpers play for, not gear, not wins........

 

if this is not what you play for its because your not good enough to achieve it, but hey you got the gear grind

 

we have different mindsets.

 

to me... my individual performance doesn't mean anything if we don't win.

 

gear aside, its a nice incentive... but i want a good fight with a chance to win. if its a back and forth match and we lose despite the best efforts of my team, ok, it sucks, but i can live with it... because i know everyone did their part for better or worse.

 

but if its just a curb stomping from the get go? i feel zero need to prove myself by topping the charts in a lost cause.

 

i won't ask others to carry me, i ask that they don't expect me to carry them.

 

its a team effort, and if the team isn't doing their job, my effort is wasted. and i absolutely HATE wasting my time and effort.

[If I'm a BM trying to get my 3 daily wins, why would I stay if we're getting killed?]

this guy does get it.......this is exactly what i do

 

its all about server reputation, and you better believe everyone who pvp's knows who i am and what ican do to them. just last night i joined a losing civil war, imps had grass and center. i told the team to hit grass hard, all but 1 to defend snow. this prompted 5 imperials to go defend grass. i then went center to 1v2 (potential stealther as a 3rd)......long story short i 1v3 (merc, maruader, assassin) into the ground, cap mid and we never look back. and yes the merc and assassin were both BM geared, mara was champ geared.

 

but anyway the point is when your good you can make the diffrence.....most people on the server wont even fight me straight up. countless times people see my toon and just book it in the opposite direction allowing me to cap nodes without contest.

 

but yea keep sucking and leaving games people.....way to show your worth

 

i can just as easily prove my ability to come out on top in a fight when outnumbered in a winning match than a losing one.

 

ill take a rep as someone who doesn't tolerate losing over a rep as someone who loses more often than not because i carry others in an attempt to be a hero.

 

just to be clear, the ones who leave halfway through a huttball match where its back and forth and the other team finally scores a goal aren't to be defended.

 

the ones who leave when the enemy team scores three times in the first minute though... there's no arguing about the validity of leaving. there is no way to predict a turn around. can it happen? sure. is it worth risking the time and effort to find out? 9 times out of 10... absolutely not.

[People QQing about people quitting warzones is out of control]

The good players go until the whistle blows. The baddies who think they are the good players rage quit the moment they're at a disadvantage.

 

results speak louder than pretty words.

 

if they had been good, even if they go until the whistle blows, they wouldn't have been losing in the first place.

 

just to be clear here, im not advocating for the ones who leave when halfway through the match the enemy scores a goal... im advocating for the players who leave matches where the enemy team score 3 times within the first 2 minutes of the match. or the ones who leave after their team only got through the 1st door and the enemy team is already at the final door 3 minutes into the second round. or the ones who just watched the enemy team 3 cap em in the first minute of the match and 5 minutes later are now 200 pts behind.

 

edit: i love the post above me... i want to have your babies!

[People QQing about people quitting warzones is out of control]

So it's ok to do something for a selfish reasons that are hurting your team?

 

I know what we call those type of people back home... It starts with a "D" and ends with bag.

 

are the people farming medals and ignoring objectives any less selfish?

 

what about the undergeared players who aren't contributing anything but their constant deaths as they hope better geared players support them?

 

or how about the ones who are just blatantly stupid, like the guy who runs the huttball into his own endzone because the enemy is chasing him and he doesn't want to die?

 

those people, the kind of people who provoke others to leave early, are the ones you're talking about here right?

[People QQing about people quitting warzones is out of control]

I think by now you see how faulty your reasoning is. There is allot of reasons way leaving a Warzone match that is not a easy win is a bad thing.

 

The most obvious is that if you/the person had stayed and fought harder you might have won in the end anyway.

 

Giving up is a tell of weeknes and no good PvP'er would even know how to spell weeknes, retreate or know the meaning of giving up.

 

I personlay think its about time BioWare adds a deserter debuff that is at least 30 min long.

 

its not like we're holding of the xerxes and the persian horde at the gates of thermoplyae here. there's no "honor" in fighting to the last man.

 

please explain to me what benefit there is to me staying and putting in the effort to win a downward sliding match?

 

are you going to learn from my example and improve your understanding of the game so that the next time im in a match with you i don't have to work so hard? not bloody likely.

 

am i going to be assured of a win in payment for my extra effort? no guarantee there either.

 

am i going to get some sort of reward for my effort trying to prop you up despite losing? sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

so, please, give me a reason i should put in the effort to carry you to a win, which isn't even guaranteed despite everything i may do, if i stick around?

[People QQing about people quitting warzones is out of control]

Why do you think that? When people leave, the match is ruined. You are at a huge disadvantage trying to defend Voidstar with 6 or 7. Why are you assuming people who don't like to play with less than 8 aren't good? If it's a insecurity thing so you can call yourself good then you don't have to respond, just continue on.

 

If my team goes down early in any WZ it's actually fun to try and comeback.

The best comebacks are Voidstar, having opponents bust through fast and then your team gets their act together at the last door and holds them off is fun. The cowards who leave never get that.

 

people leave the match because its already a lost cause.

 

to put it simply, people aren't losing because others are leaving, they're losing because they're bad. if they weren't bad, the good players wouldn't leave in the first place.

 

if anything, you should thank them... by leaving they only speed up the inevitable and instead of spending 15 minutes struggling against the enemy victory, by leaving they're shortening the horrible prison style gangrape that's going down.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Played an Alderann match yesterday. Around 5-6 of our side quit. One straight away because people ignored him, 2 soon after when the imps held 2 turrets, 2 a bit later when they held 3 turrets (surprise - 3 men down and all).

 

So, once all the bads were gone, the new joiners came in, all the turrets went green and we won.

 

Moral of the story?

Those who won't stay, won't ever learn how to survive when the cards are stacked against them nor how to turn around a losing game when the opportunity comes. In short, they will always be bads.

 

no offense... but you're exactly the kind of player i leave matches because of.

 

you didn't start winning till other, better players showed up to carry you. if it hadn't been for better players showing up in the match, you would have lost. if i had been in that match and never left, either A) you would've dragged me down (with no hope of salvation because there's no open spot for a better player to make up for you) or B) i would've carried you, which i honestly have little desire to do... its just not worth the effort on my part.

 

the only lesson you learned was to rely on other, better players supporting you.

 

since i can't make you leave the match, id rather just leave you to your fate and move on. if other people want to carry you to a win, so be it, no skin off my back, except it just promotes you never learning and still polluting the pvp queues with your inability to win on your own merits.

 

edit: there are occasions where i'll stick around in a match. ive been doing this long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a newbie and noob, usually within the first few moments of a game. when i see the way they pick their targets, where they move, their situational awareness and ability rotations, i can pick out the ones with potential and the ones who are just going to drag the team down.

 

the former im willing to tolerate, they just don't know better, and may actually learn from the example of more experienced players... the latter (usually the ones who post on forums whining about one thing or another), are a blight on the pvp community and are to be avoided at the first sign of their existence, for the sake of my own sanity.

[People leaving wz is now out of control.]

Your logic is half-true.

 

A.) People see a match going south so instead of trying to turn it around, they quit.

 

That's what i've observed a lot of times, and half the time a better player comes in and we win the match. (If just one person quits)

 

Yet you agree that people quitting and causing those who stay losses results in anger, how is that not greifing other players?

 

if the definition of griefing is causing anger in other players... i would be just as justified to call the people who incited me to leave the match early griefers because their lack of coordination, teamwork and situational awareness made me angry.

 

im not saying your wrong, in that someone leaving opens a spot for someone with the patience to try and turn the match around, and that does happen sometimes. more often than not, in my experience when i have stuck around, that hasn't happened though. its a numbers game... there are more bad players than good, and chances are that spot would be filled with a bad player instead of a good one.

 

now... to be clear, without a deserter penalty, that sort of scenario, where person A leaves and person B shows up and turns things around, can happen.

 

put in a deserter penalty, and the majority of people who leave (the leeches, not the folks who are looking for a good match but didn't find it)... won't leave, they'll just find a corner and jump in it every minute or so, and you'll never get someone who wants to put in the effort in to take their spot.