Jaidan
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Posts posted by Jaidan
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Too true and the unwarranted sense of entitlement. They make it sound like they should be in control of time you are paying for. LMAO I could net a phd in psychotherapy in one day just by using these forums as material.
but heaven forbid if they don't get something for nothing.
a few weeks back the devs tried to punish the bad players by reducing the rewards gained from losing...
****, the amount of cry was absolutely epic.
so much easier to just blame the good players who don't want to put up with it than it is for them to pull themselves up to the same level as the "chumps" who are tired of being dragged down by their lack of ability.
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pretty sure the reps on Jung Ma are loving life.
Saturday imps rule... but the entire rest of the week... yea, its a rep playground, both at 50 and in the 10-49 brackets.
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At least you admit your selfish.
EVERYONE who is in the habbit of quiting a round when the other team gets a little ahead is a CHUMP.
YOU are the ones making PVP worse, even worse than the prolblems with premades, pugs and over powered toons.
Care to admit that?
This is a multiplayer game, and this attitude shows that you are not only selfish, but you don't mind screwing over other players. NOT COOL. This isn't the only problem, but one created by some PLAYERS and NOT BioWare.
If you "BAILERS" were any good, and tried hard then your team might have a chance to make a comeback win.
If you don't want to be a team player then don't play a team game. It's not too late to turn from the Dark SIde.
hmmm, i like how your logic works.
lets see if we can use it from the other side...
EVERYONE who is in the habit of continuing to play badly and never making the slightest effort to improve on your own is a CHUMP.
YOU are the ones making PVP worse, even worse than the prolblems with premades, pugs and over powered toons.
Care to admit that?
This is a multiplayer game, and this attitude shows that you are not only selfish, but you don't mind screwing over other players. NOT COOL. This isn't the only problem, but one created by some PLAYERS and NOT BioWare.
If you "whiners" were any good, and tried hard then your team might never have to even worry about needing a comeback win.
If you don't want to be a team player and stop dragging down the smarter, more capable players, then don't play a team game. It's not too late to turn from the Carebear SIde.
yea... i do like your logic, works very nicely.
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lightbulb moment: everyone is selfish, some admit it and some don't but at the end of the day it's a video game and one you are paying for to have fun. You get to decide to stay or go in a match based off that fact. Staying when it isn't fun for you is silly.
agreed.
when i leave a match, its not like im demanding they change the way they play. if they want to play poorly, fine with me, i just don't want to be a part of it.
but when they demand that i either stick around and play at their level, or else get a debuff or some other sort of punishment, and in the same breath dare to call me selfish, while also holding themselves up as paragons of altruism...
my god, the hypocrisy of these people is amazing.
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Perhaps, but it does not change my opinion.
To me its just a game for fun, and there are too many "sore loser gamers" who take it all too serious.
"my team sucks so im outta here, boo hoo" If the shoe fits...if not...
Everyone has to be THE BEST. I know I am average at best and still have lots to improve. I can still have fun win or lose.
Perhaps there needs to be a way to seperats PUGs from Premades.
and this is the reason why people leave.
no offense, but winning is important to some of us.
before anybody gets their panties in a twist, im NOT saying quit at the first sign of trouble. but i am saying don't waste your time in lost causes.
i don't mind losing, if the loss comes after a good close match where both teams played their best and it was anyone's guess who would win right up until the end.
but when its obvious you're going to lose within the first few minutes of the game... yea, my time is valuable and losing for no good reason is absolutely not fun.
if you find it fun to get curb stomped, fine, by all means get curb stomped. just don't ask me to be there biting the curb with you.
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I just got out of a hutball game where we started with 8 players and after a couple minutes the other team(imps) scored ONE point and litterally half the team left.
I have noticed other times when the other team gets ahead and a teamate will start crying and telling eveyone they suck and then quit. I even had a guy yelling at our team, saying we sucked and quit - even though we were ahead and ended up wining the round.
To those who quit a match because you get behind and MIGHT lose - YOU ARE SELFISH.
Stay playing to help the team make a comeback, and earn some XP. I have at times earned more XP from a loss because I didnt give up and tried hard to the END.
its a pug. i could just as easily call the people who demand i waste my time fighting a lost cause with them, when they show no desire or ability to improve their game, selfish.
at least my selfishness doesn't waste your time. when i leave a match, i open a spot and give you the opportunity to play as badly as you like without trying to force you to do what you obviously don't want to do.
when you tell me i absolutely must remain in something i do not consider fun, and demand i put in effort to try and mask your mistakes, while at the same time you continue to show me no consideration... well, im sorry, but to me that makes you far more selfish than I.
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I don't remember reading or seeing in TV any heroes who leave(or go sit in a corner cursing) their companions to die horribly, because they are weak or not skilled enough.
Let's face it. You're not heroes. You're as bad as 'bads' you leave behind, but keep yapping how awesome are you if it makes you feel any better
yes, because hollywood is known for being full of tactical and strategic geniuses.
sorry, but there are times where you need to sacrifice the pawn in order to check the king.
lets face it, survival of the fittest is at work here. when the rewards are dependent on his ability, and he displays none, he deserves to be left behind.
i may not be a pro player, but im not a special olympics player... and i will leave behind the special olympic people in search of a team that is operating on the same level as i am.
i don't owe it to anyone to teach them or encourage them. the only thing i owe them is to give them the same effort they give me. you get what you pay for... if they don't do their jobs, i feel no obligation to give them any sort of advice or encouragement in return.
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And when "Pro Gaming" rises above "Dwarf Tossing", "Black Pudding Rolling" and "Snakes and Ladders" in stature, both culturally and professionally, then I will try and improve....promise.
i love how people feel that its ok not to put in their best efforts towards something their spending their time on (and because, as in cases like this, other people's time as well)... just because its not at the same level as other things.
dunno but you, well actually i do, but i don't care if its the presidential election or just sitting in front of my pc, but im going to put the same level of effort into both things, if for no other reason than my time is valuable, and it doesn't deserve to be wasted... anything my time goes into is valuable enough to do my best at.
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Raging very rarely does anything. What it does do is add you to /ignore, which hurts the team worse then anything. If the team is screwing up, let them know in a way that is helpful.
I've seen ragers yell at people doing what they're supposed to also though. I played a Civil War match where we had only 1 turret. The game had just started and 2 people were gaurding it. It was continuously being attacked and those 2 were the only ones keeping it from getting capped while the rest of the team was trying to take another. The rager, without actually seeing what was going on there, told them to abandon the turret. When they didn't, he asked which one was more retarted. After being told that it was continuously being attacked, he shut up. He also tried to tell everyone at the start to stick to one group and don't gaurd anything. Not the way to win on that WZ. We ended up losing because our whole team just kept attacking the middle turret most of the game. By the time they moved to a side turret, it was too late.
I later got stuck with him in a huttball match and it was the same thing. He yelled at someone for not passing the ball, yet the person had no one to pass to and was stunned as well. When the carrier explained what was going on, half our team had said they added him to ignore after his first rage at the team. We ended up winning that match if I remember right.
If you're going to rage at your team, don't expect anything to come of it. As I said, most will put you on ignore right away.
old post, but had to respond.
if im guaranteed to lose, for whatever reason, whether its because my teammates are undergeared, or just plain bad... raging gains me the only thing i can from the match.
the match is a loss, its been a monumental waste of time. at least if i go ahead and vent and rage at the oxygen thieves who were the cause of the loss, ill feel a little better.
i won't feel as good as if we'd won, but my frustration at their inability to do their jobs will be at least slightly lessened. ill be damned if ill let these bad players steal EVERY little bit of enjoyment from me.
and besides, who knows, maybe they'll get irritated enough to just stop pvp'ing and cease to pollute the already shallow pvp pool. or even better, they'll take the time to visit the forums and talk to decent players to improve their game.
sadly, most of em don't do that, but at the very least i got something for the time they wasted with their ineptitude, in that my frustration was vented on them a bit.
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Your grandiose sense of self worth is amazing. The team lost because a lot of players think like you. You left them behind because you think you are better than they are, but you are the failure here. WZ's are a team sport.
Here is a word you should look up "narcissism". But I have a feeling you still wont understand.
in a team everyone needs to pull their weight equally (well, every sport except basketball... but that's neither here nor there). it'd be like taking a pro athlete and telling him he has to play in the special olympics because that's the level his randomly selected team is at. that's not fun, that's just frustrating.
if one person is putting in substantially more effort and getting substantially more results than the rest of the team... its no longer a team effort... its a one person vs entire enemy team effort.
absolutely justifiable to get the hell out of there... nobody likes being taken advantage of, and when you gotta carry and bunch of randoms who refuse to improve their game, that's being taken advantage of.
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i usually won't say a word. ill call my incs and whatnot, but ill hold back on raging... simple reason: none of the oxygen stealers polluting the pvp queue's give a dam about why they're bad and will never change. just not worth my time or effort trying to fix stupid.
ill just leave... comfortable in the fact that if they do pull a win out of their asses, it had nothing to do with the skill of the people i left behind... it was because someone better than not only them, but myself, showed up and had the patience to carry a bunch of chimps to a win.
because lets face it, if you're down 0-4 in huttball within the first minute, or 3 capped in ald, there's a reason for it... and i don't feel like wasting my time and effort trying to get you guys to call incs and play the objectives.
sorry, but there is a reason i left... and guess what, its frustration over seeing my team pull idiot stunts like passing the ball to the enemy team in OUR goal line.
so yes... it is entirely the team's fault. maybe show a little... i dunno, actual teamwork, and you won't have to make threads begging those of us with intellects greater than that of a boiled cabbage to stop blaming you.
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So if I lose and get nothing for it, why would I play in the first place? The idea that losing shouldn't be rewarded simply doesn't apply to video games.
yes, you're right.
its so much easier to just quit than get better.
guess it comes down to whether or not you actually want to improve or just be handed gifts without earning them.
no offense, but id rather play a game with a small, but quality, playerbase, over one that is massive but an embarrassment to themselves (whether they realize it or not). that's one of the reasons i quit WoW, i'd really rather not see this game go the same route.
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if the problem was the leaving then matches wouldn't be starting with partially filled teams
if leaving is the problem then why wasn't it such a big problem pre 1.2 - the ability to leave was there too. The fact that it is more of a problem now points to something else being the issue.
oh, there was plenty of whining about leaving pre 1.2.
most of those arguments didn't go anywhere though, and just got lost in the void. namely because it was a fight between people claiming they would lose solely because people left the matches early, and the other side claiming they would have lost anyways, whether someone left early or not.
essentially it was all a big "he said, she said" *****fest.
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you can definitely get zilch. depends on how your team does and how many medals you get (which is itself partly dependent on your team).
here's a screenshot of somebody getting 0 rewards despite having the top healing on either team:
2 medals.
0 objective pts gained.
losing team.
very easy to see why you got nothing.
to start with you didn't complete the minimum requirement of getting 3 medals. additionally, you didn't do anything even remotely related to the objectives (hell, you can just stand near the objective and never actually interact with it in order to get defense or offense points).
i see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
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free gear for nothing.... rofl
how about free gear for the money I pay monthly for this game or more importantly my time
If you're going to post something, make it constructive not to troll. k thx
so... are you saying that you support a microtransaction system, one where by paying more you can make up for your deficiencies elsewhere, and gain an unfair meta-game advantage from it?
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In the real world you might well be right, but this is a GAME, it's supposed to be fun. If people aren't having fun, why are they going to renew their subscriptions? Just to grind for months on end to get a single piece of equipment?
caving to the lowest common denominator is never a recipe for success.
as was said elsewhere... losing should not be rewarded. it only reinforces bad habits and encourages the mindset that things can be simplified and dumbed down for the benefit of the weakest links.
although, it would be satisfying to see these less skilled players wearing full BM gear and still losing.
but... what will they complain about once gear disparity is no longer an excuse? what will they demand to have changed? what will be changed to satisfy their ignorant and entitled whims?
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The thing is, professional sports players make theie living playing sports. We dont.
We're more like college players. This isnt our means of survival.
Rewarding participation here is no different than giving tee ballers a trophy just for standing in the outfield and staring at the sun while picking their noses.
Honestly, im surprised anyone complaining about this isnt also complaining that keeping track of scores is bad because it makes the people with the lower scores feel bad.
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Except for World of Warcraft, and EVE.
eve is the only mmo to consistently and steadily increase its subscription base every month since its release.
wow had a huge spike at its initial release... then it only saw significant population changes when xpacs were released. since wrath it saw a steady decline prior to cataclysm, which stabilized it, and it has since been declining once again.
not sure why eve is successfully drawing in new players on a steady basis where others aren't.
it might be because its a sandbox type game, maybe its because of the cutthroat nature of its gameplay, or the in-game economy. it could also be because of the way every xpac ccp produces is free.
whatever the reason, i personally think eve is the best mmo ive played yet... but it just takes too much time to excel in for me to justify paying the monthly fee (i can't get on enough to feel like ive accomplished anything of value in it).
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The word "bad" is missing from the thread title.
its a team effort.
no matter how good you are as an individual (that means it doesn't matter if you end up with 700k dmg done and 200k healing done at the end if you lose)... if your team is a bunch of window lickers... you're boned.
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this is like when someone pulls aggro and they start running around like a headless chicken rather than staying put while the tank picks up the mob again.
its alot easier for the tank to get aggro back if she doesn't have to chase the mob, that's chasing you, because you're panicking and running around all panicky like.
not to mention that she's alot less likely to lose aggro on any other mobs in the area if she doesn't have to spend to much time chasing after a single mob.
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Obviously the incentive for staying needs to be greater than the incentive for leaving.... hence wanting to punish someone for leaving ( nevermind the other reasons that make that the best decision )
now ive seen this pop up a few times.
to me... thats a purely self-centered solution.
it places all the responsibility on the person who leaves, while placing none of the blame on the cause behind why the quitters leave. here's a hint... its because its too frustrating and wasteful to spend time propping up the baddies who are the reason the match is going south in the first place. in a nutshell, if these people advocating for a penalty were capable of pulling their own weight in a warzone... the quitters wouldn't be quitting, but none of them are willing to accept their own role in this problem... instead they just prefer to place blame on others while taking no responsibility to improve themselves.
but it only addresses half the problem. it doesn't do anything to punish the people who can't hold up their end of the bargain and require the support of the people who would have left if not for the penalty.
way i see it, you want to fix the solution, and keep it fair... you've got two options.
option A) you penalize the quitters, make it so they have less incentive to leave. but at the same time, you institute a penalty for not being actively involved in accomplishing the warzone's objectives. if you don't heal or dmg the ballcarrier at least once a minute... if you don't fight on the turrets in ald or at least attempt to plant the bomb in void once a minute... you get docked coms and valor in payment for making the quitters stay there and waste their time and effort trying to prop you up.
or B) you make it so that losing still accomplishes something. obviously losing can't be as rewarding as winning, but make it so that a loss isn't a complete waste of time and effort. that will provide the quitters more incentive to remain in lost causes and carry the oxygen thieves farther than they deserve to be carried.
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You're incorrect sir. I am only playing for valor and dailies, however, I accept the social contract when entering a WZ. A contract that I will see through to the end- even if it means that particular match will not produce as much or as well, were I to quit the match.
It is a measure of character to see something through to it's conculsion- even in a game.
i call it naivety.
i prefer to pick my battles and fight only the ones that are worth my time and effort.
if someone else refuses to put in the same effort i do, they aren't worth my time and effort and ill leave them to their fate without a second thought.
give me a good close match, and its worth my time, even if it results in a loss. but give me a match where the enemy team completes half the objectives to win in the first minute of the match and ill get the hell out of there first chance i get.
my character is not defined by my ability to take a beating... its defined by my ability to avoid unnecessary beatings so that, in the end, i end up victorious.
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So you join the problem instead of trying to fix it.
I mean seriously, do the Houston Astros just leave the stadium when they have to face the Milwaukee Brewers? Chances are, they're GOING to lose, but they still play the damn game because that's the whole freaking point of baseball. You compete!
These self-righteous little whiners who quit every game that they would have to work hard to win don't deserve anything other than a deserter debuff. When you quit a warzone that you think you might lose, you're basically saying, "I'm entitled to win every game that I play. I'm way more important than anyone else and I would rather screw over tons of other people by quitting than to suck it up and actually learn that you can't always win everything in life.".
If everyone quits when they're going to lose, NOBODY would ever win!! If people automatically quit when they get behind, and everyone on a team actually does it, the replacer wouldn't work quickly enough to stop the WZ from ending prematurely, especially as the new people that replace in also leave when they see what they're getting into.
At that point, instead of PVP you have a queueing game for gear. I don't want to queue for gear, I want to PVP for it. And if you disagree, then get out of PVP.
here's the thing... most people who start of arguments like you, accusing quitters of being nothing but "self-righteous little whiners" are pretty clueless. most of the people i know who leave warzones are perfectly willing to stay in close matches that present them with the chance of winning, even if it requires their time and effort.
what they aren't willing to do is hang out in lost causes that show zero potential of victory, for any one of a multitude of reasons.
close matches are worth the time and effort of the leavers, lost causes are not. there is no point in fighting to the last breath in this game, you don't get anything from it but frustrated and annoyed that you gotta queue up again and hope the next time isn't quite as painful.
sooo... what is the solution?
you can't force people to improve their skill level or gear.
you could make it so that gear is so easy to get that it becomes a moot point because everyone is equally well geared... but that eliminates alot of the driving force behind doing pvp. i personally like having a goal to attain, mindless deathmatching just for the sake of deathmatching is boring to me.
you could try gear matching, but then you will find people queuing up naked and waiting till their in to put their gear on, and other such exploits. also, unless you want to deal with excessively long queues, the metric must be pretty wide, so you will still find more matches than you like that have massive gear disparities (everyone on one team is one level of gear higher than the other, individually the disparity isn't much, but in a group, its big enough to be an issue).
you could put in deserter penalties... but then you encourage either afk'ing, which is far worse than quitters, or medal farming, just as useless in pursuit of a win, or in the worst case, you encourage people to not even bother queuing up... which kills your queue times.
so... again, what is the solution?
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i would agree, that healing debuffs need to be more prevalent... either that or interrupts need
to be made more effective... as much as i hate to say it... blizz did it right where interrupts knock out the entire ability school, not just that particular ability.
Some players bail too easy in PvP
in PvP
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can't fix stupid. all you can do is try and make being stupid so painful that people either get smarter or die off.
the devs tried that, and the uproar from the bads who got nothing when they lost was so bad it choked the angels in heaven.
so long as they don't actually force me to play with the bads ill keep pvping and laughing when they ***** about how i leave them to die on their own after they show their lack of ability.
as soon as they put in any sort of deserter debuff though... ill just stop pvping. the bads will still keep losing, but without me pvping, they won't be able to blame me for leaving the warzone, because ill have never been there in the first place.
i wonder what they'll try to blame for losing all the time then?