No, it doesnt make your point. Without all that asian money to fuel it, it never would have been expanded as much as it had. Agian, as I said previously, WoW would be nothing had it not been for the fact that the asian market enjoys the gear on a stick treadmill mmo. So in that situation, it wouldnt have even come close to 2 mil subs with north american numbers. If a themepark mmo is going to succeed, it needs the asian market to support it. Otherwise, it starts to die right out of the gate like those examples I mentioned earlier. That's the truth of the matter, not my fault you can't think.

I love how people always pull the "WoW has 10 mil subs" example out of their arse without realizing the vast majority of those subs come from the asian market. North American and EU subs are not even 2 mil. WoW would be nothing if not for the huge asian market. A themepark mmo primarily aimed at NA and EU audiences is not going to get a huge amount of subs, and always ends up failing withing months of launch because people are tired of that mmo model/style. Just look at rift, AoC, aion, etc etc...and swtor is no exception. And don't expect the asian market to prop up this piss poor excuse of an mmo.

I highly doubt TOR will be around in 7 years, with the way the game is now. And the hack job that BW development did to the hero engine is why this game is not going to be as easily repaired as some people think. The core of this game has serious problems, and in that situation, it would be easier to take TOR out to the Back Forty and put it out of it's misery and go back to the drawing board. And SWG had an 8.5 year run btw.

speak for yourself..

so I take it your guild will NOT be celebrating it's 1 year swtor anniversary.....

and I always read those notes, every time the client is patching for each update/maint still doesnt change the fact that BW has been dishonest

yup, always with the likes of you. Give me proof... You know something, I can't prove what BW did or did not say, but what I DO know, is that they say one thing, and do something else. They are NOT honest and forthright about a number of things, hence the earlier example of the CE vendor. That's where you self righteous types took it upon yourselves to start demanding evidence. Open your eyes for crying out loud, what do you call not being completely honest? I know exactly what is is called...no matter how small. And that, I AM right about. I know however, you will never think so.

you know what is ironic about this.. If said pattern was continuing, then each update would have to NOT deliver, otherwise nobody would continue to repeat something like that.. think about it..

Ahh, post dissecting. The hallmark of the truly self righteous.

Nah. They didnt tell the truth at all. The test server was a ghost town, nothing pvp wise could have been tested in the first place. Hardly saw anyone whenever I logged into it. So when they say all features are being "tested", I call BS, since there was hardly anybody to test it in the first place. This is likely the reason why it had to be pulled, it wasnt ready because it didnt get enough testing. Maybe if BW would allow the players to make instant level 50 toons, the endgame content, including pvp, could be given sufficient testing. You'd think they would let players do that, since it's supposed to be a "test" server... Lies come in all shapes and sizes, and this is just another one from BW.

As a CE owner, where is the "content" they said they would be adding regularly to the ce vendor? I guess that content is still in the works as well. How long do we have to wait (and keep paying) for them to make good on their "promises"? Sorry, but I refuse to pay a monthly fee for a sub-par product. If you enjoy paying to stand around fleet spamming your spacebar in some 3D queue lobby, have fun. I never claimed to expect the mother of all mmo's when this game came out, but I DID expect to see something alot better then what we ended up with.

Seriously. The first time I did the Kaon flashpoint, I thought I was playing Resident Evil.

If you had read the previos page, and paid attention to the top post, you wouldnt need to ask stupid questions. And ranked wz's WERE a major upcoming aspect of 1.2. And the simple fact is that BW tells us one thing, then doesnt deliver. Know what that makes them? A Liar. And if you have no qualms about handing your money to someone that LIES to you, then know what that makes you? A Fool.

Except many of those "cries" are justified. Update 1.2 gave us features such as guild banks and a modifiable UI. Those are normal features that other mmo's have included at launch. So for BW to try and feed that to us with the rest of the 1.2 poop sandwich, and call it new content, is a slap in the face and insult to our intelligence. And lets not forget how they told us right before it went live that there would be no ranked wz's, even though ranked wz's were one of the main features that was going to be part of 1.2. Tired of BW telling us one thing, then not staying true to their word.

already did unsub. Fed up with the lousy pvp.

SWG didnt fail simply because it was a sandbox, it was other non sandbox related issues that caused players to unsub, as in bugs and imbalances. Many of the same problems that these themepark mmo's also suffer. So to claim that because SWG failed, then therefore all sandbox mmo's must be failures as well, is incorrect. Through all the problems that SWG had, it did have a healthy population for a number of years and had an 8.5 year run. With the way swtor is turning out, it will be VERY hard pressed to match SWG's run. Games like AoC, Rift, Aion, Warhammer, to name a few, all had rapidly dropping populations early after the games launch. Those games were reduced to a handful of servers less than a year after they launched. SWG lasted with 25 servers for roughly 6 years before half of them were closed due to dropping populations. Not bad considering the drastic changes that the game went through, more than once even. I think it's safe to say that the sandbox aspect of SWG is what saved that game and kept it going all those years. If a sandbox mmo can still survive changes like the Combat Upgrade, and the massive nerf that was the NGE, then what could sandbox features do for a game like swtor? Why can't they put all the themepark rides inside a giant sandbox? I think if mmo's are to survive, they need to change from the current models we see atm. Sandbox world, with themepark rides throughout, is something along the lines of where mmo's need to go. Sandbox/themepark hybrid mmo would be cool to see someday, here's hoping. It's funny, cause when I was a kid, I'd go to the park and jump on each ride a few times, then lose interest. But the sandbox in my own backyard, I'd play in it every day for hours...

pretty much this^^ Sick and tired of EA/BW and their lies, which is why I just hit the cancel button.

Another problem is that wz's don't always end when one team is short. Went into a huttball match earlier today and it started with 8 vs 6 and didnt start abort sequence. It was several min before 2 more people joined our team, but the damage had been done even though we fought hard. Lost 4-2. Warzones, and PvP for that matter is a complete joke.

open world pvp ftw

change it from themepark to sandbox.

I'm going to laugh hard when swg's 8.5 year run beats this game by a mile before it dies. At the rate this game is going with all the current problems, I highly doubt it will last even 2 years. It's just another themepark mmo flop sadly enough. I had hoped this would be a good mmo, but I'm bored of end game, don't feel like rolling any more toons, already have 2 50's, and other 40ish toons. UI is horrible, targeting is broken, content is bugged, piss poor performance (ilum pvp anyone? yeah right...) crafting is boring and useless except biochem, etc, etc. The list could go on and on. My friends in my guild are the only thing keeping me here atm, as I enjoy their company in game, but many of them are as frustrated as I am with the game. As others in this thread have pointed out, this game needs a MASSIVE overhaul if it wants to survive, but with EA/BW attitude to it's customers, and the multiple problems this game has, the death throes of this game have already begun.

I can still remember the rumors and speculation on the SWG forums in September of 08' about this game. "NO! It's not going to be an mmo, it's kotor 3..."

qft mmorpg's need to get back to their sandbox roots, and not these themepark failures. Give me a virtual society to game in, and not some queue lobby that gets boring after the first month. Played swg for 4.5 years, already bored to tears with swtor after 3 months. I'm gonna laugh hard when swtor dies in less time than swg's 8.5 year run.

No. Bugs, too many restrictions in game, horrible looking gear, nothing to do after getting a few 50's geared up( this game is not grindy at all, easy to level, reason why i have several 50's) open world pvp is a huge fail. planets way too linear. No sense of community in game, just feels like a queue lobby. poor performance, I could keep going... Just another themepark mmo flop to toss on the heap.

Search function is being useless as usual, anyone care to let me know exactly where to go to start the EV instance? I'm guessing somewhere in interfleet... Thanks in advance.